bluesnut
83 posts
Jul 07, 2009
1:49 PM
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How do the bands you guys play with deal with the set list? Do you play it in order? Mix it up? Stick to it during the gig? I'm being told not to get to hung up on the order. This is the first real band I have played with and the learning cuve is steap. I seems to me as harp player knowing the order is helpful in picking up the right harp before the song starts. Experiences welcome.
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Cisco
3 posts
Jul 07, 2009
2:18 PM
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The song order can make a huge difference in how the band comes off to the public. Songs should flow into each other and there should be very little space between songs. We usually take 4 beats between songs. Now if you want to change the flow then just talk to the audience a bit before the next song. We have 4 set lists (each one on a separate page in large fonts) and we put them on the floor in front of each player so everyone knows what song is next AND what instruments start the song. The next gig we'll play the set list in a different order and after a month or so we'll redo the entire 4 set list and move the songs around so that folks don't get bored with the same songs in any one set.
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harmonicanick
316 posts
Jul 08, 2009
1:42 AM
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That is an interesting question...why?
Well the last blues band (6 piece) I was the harp player for, the guitar/leader sent the set list out by e mail a few days before the gigs.
No problem and everything was ok...for the first year or so; because it was always exactly the same without any variation me and the keyboards asked if we could have a change with more improv.
To cut a long story short, that was the end of me & kbds in that band because we were summilarily dismissed for insubordination and gross misconduct.
Bluesnut its called 'artistic differences'
So Cisco is right 'move the songs around so that folks don't get bored' and that includes the band!!
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MrVerylongusername
401 posts
Jul 08, 2009
2:20 AM
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We decided a while back to fix the set as an experiment. The reason behind it was to get slicker between songs, so guitar and keys could have their patches in a set order, we could script links etc...
I have to say it's a great idea in principle, but we haven't stuck to that fixed set in the whole time we've had it. The experiment has failed dismally.
We have far more material than 2x45mins, so we have the flexibility to pick and choose quite heavily. You have to write your set list for the gig. We do a lot of private gigs - weddings, parties, corporates. Some of our material just wouldn't be appropriate - for instance we do a version of Edwin Starr's "War", not exactly the best choice for the bride and groom's first dance eh?! (although from a couple of the weddings we've done - maybe quite prophetic!)
I hate to bring up Springsteen again on a blues forum, but I was intrigued to hear that the E Street band do not have a fixed set. They decide on the first 4 numbers - after that they work on the fly, reading the audience's mood and responding accordingly. That says a lot for their ability as musicians and onstage communication.
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GamblersHand
51 posts
Jul 08, 2009
4:29 AM
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@harmonicanick
I've always been surprised when I've come across control freaks leading bands, especially in blues which I've always taken to be more on the improvisational side of things - but your story of being fired after having the temerity of suggesting a change to a setlist (after a year!) takes the cake.
My take has always been to have a setlist, but deviate often if the crowd are responding better to one style or other better. So 9 times out of 10 the set ends up being different to that planned. Sometimes I ask the crowd what sort of thing they'd like to hear - can be risky, but also can be a good way to interact.
@bluesnut
As for grabbing the right key - you probably do something similar, but a case where you can lay out your harps, and labelled stickers on each key works well for me. The labels also mean I now rarely start with the harp upside down!
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dfwdlg
34 posts
Jul 08, 2009
11:49 AM
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I'm with the "how to present a show" crowd and believe set lists help you look more professional. Still, at times you need to be able to deviate and play a request to have the happiest crowds. Look at what the music "calls for" to decide.
For example, one of my friend's had a band that did all Beatles tunes. They would play the whole back side of Abbey Road, in order, and without stopping. Those of you that never had proper LPs may not see the point, but the Beatles fans in the crown would go ape-sh*t for that.
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bluesnut
84 posts
Jul 08, 2009
12:21 PM
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Looks like knowing the set list music will allow for going with the flow. Back to the woodshed.
Harmonicanick, Maxwell's silver hammer comes to mind.
dfwdlg, I like the Abbey Road idea. I dug deep grooves in all my Beatles vinyl, I had to get a second lp for some.
GammlersHand, I have a case but I used a silver sharpie and some nail polish.
In this band is improv is encouraged. When it is solo time, do what you will in the twelve or twentyfour bars. The last time we rehursed I had practiced a solo for Hoochie Choochie Man and thought I was ready, but something different came out of the amp, I had to grow wings fast. I have done something different every time and not on perpose.
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Jim Rumbaugh
64 posts
Jul 09, 2009
10:34 AM
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Set lists are for a very structured very proffesionsl show band, or for beginners that need a crutch.
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MrVerylongusername
417 posts
Jul 09, 2009
10:53 AM
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Not an attack... just curious... but could you expand a little on that point of view?
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XHarp
102 posts
Jul 09, 2009
11:30 AM
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As with anything, being well planned is being well executed. Project a professional image.
Set lists are important and consistency with the set list order is critical. You will learn to play off of each other, finish all tunes with a clean ending, round off the rough edges, plan your stage time, and present confidence and experience to the audience.
Everyband has one, I even saw a hand written being passed around between "keef, mick, and the band" the stage during the opening few seconds of the last Stones concert.
I think it just makes sense to sort it out before you get going.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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Jim Rumbaugh
65 posts
Jul 10, 2009
5:09 AM
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MrVerylongusername : You asked me why I said,"Set lists are for a very structured very professional show band, or for beginners that need a crutch"
XHarp said he saw Mick Jagger passing a list around. When you are putting on a structured show, you need a list. When you have several people that need to co-ordinate lights, sound, stage movement, you need lists and structure. When you are doing a stage performance (in the pit band), you need structure.
Other extreme.... You only have 40 songs and you gotta cover 4 hours and you don't want to repeat the same tunes. Write them down. You want to make a mix of fast and slow, do a list. You have bad memory and keep forgetting to do "band member Joe's favorite tune", get a list.
Where I come from. The lady that hired the band said the dance club love Latin tunes. After playing a samba, cha-cha, and rumba, no one moves. You play a country tune and everyone jumps. A list was worthless. IF you have enough tunes under your belt AND a competent leader (which I do). You feel the audience and play to the moment. When people are jumping, it's not always right to throw out a slow tune because it's the next one on the list.
Lists are OK, they have their place, but they are not for everybody, nor are they a benchmark for how professional a band is.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2009 5:10 AM
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MrVerylongusername
418 posts
Jul 10, 2009
6:58 AM
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Jim - I see your point, and to a point I agree that you need to read your audience and adapt accordingly. Your example is a good illustration , but to me the measure of how professional a band (after the music itself) is how they present themselves.
The kind of approach you use can be incredibly powerful if everyone just clicks and knows what's going on. However here's some examples...
- the band leader calls a tune without realising the guitarist plays it in drop tuning.
- The keyboard player needs to switch sounds and can't come in on time.
- Harp player doesn't have the right key ready.
- Horns have got the wrong charts.
- everyone standing round discussing what they going to play next whilst the dancefloor clears.
- The person who starts the song didn't get the message
Personally I prefer a compromise approach - a set list bespoke to each gig, structured to avoid following a popular dance tune with a slow one (why would anyone do that anyway???) we can throw in a different one if one of the vocalists needs to take a break or if we need to keep the tempo up or wind things down. Agreed - flexibility and communication are more important than following a list, but in an 8-piece band I could never imagine doing a whole show by calling numbers on the fly.
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harmonicanick
319 posts
Jul 10, 2009
9:43 AM
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The phrase I used to ask the leader for a bit of fexibility in the set list was from a member of the audience who said to me:
'that's not blues its caberet'
Time to move on methinks....
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Jim Rumbaugh
66 posts
Jul 10, 2009
11:05 AM
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MrVeryLonguserName : I agree with all your points.
When I was in my firt trio (1974), we had a list.
Next week I will be onstage with 10 musicians and 5 vocalists. There is a list
Next month I will play with the quartet I have played with for 30 years. There is NEVER a list.
There ARE places for lists. But they are not always needed, depending on the situation. I wonder if Satan and Adam have a list for their 2009 gigs? :)
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