Mgimino
16 posts
Jul 11, 2009
4:11 PM
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I'm right handed, but since I started it felt most comfortable to use my right hand holding the harp. When I hold n my left hand, it feels weird and I can't play as well when I TB.
Is it something I'm going to have to force myself to switch too?
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2009 4:30 PM
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GermanHarpist
466 posts
Jul 11, 2009
4:39 PM
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I would say, do whatever feels good to you...
Anyways... all the hands do is hold the harp and that occasional wahwah... so, who cares with what hand you do it?
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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Tryharp
234 posts
Jul 11, 2009
4:46 PM
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MG,
A possible problem is that your main cup will be over the high notes. I also play in the other hand because it also didnt feel right to me, but I also play with the harp upside down which puts the cup in the right spot.
Tryharp
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Mgimino
18 posts
Jul 11, 2009
4:51 PM
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That is the problem, and playing the harp upside down makes it even more awkward for me.
I guess I am going to have to learn to use my left hand if that is possible, I can't see any other way.
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GermanHarpist
468 posts
Jul 11, 2009
5:05 PM
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THs got a point there... Maybe you could figure out a way of cupping the harp with your hand position though.
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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Mgimino
19 posts
Jul 11, 2009
5:10 PM
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I've been experimenting but just not finding anything solid and consistent, so I've decided to be resolute in switching to using my left hand. Oh the fun...
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Tryharp
235 posts
Jul 11, 2009
5:18 PM
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MG,
Have you tried Adams two thumbs up type grip.... might be an option for you.
Tryharp
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GermanHarpist
470 posts
Jul 11, 2009
6:07 PM
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I never figured out how you could efficiently cup the harp with Adams grip, though.
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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mickil
360 posts
Jul 11, 2009
6:24 PM
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Mgimino,
I'm just curious. Why does it feel awkward playing it upside down?
Cos, if it's the numbers, Seydels don't have them. If it's some other insanity, join the club. lol, haha and all that!
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
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GermanHarpist
473 posts
Jul 11, 2009
6:33 PM
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mickil, well I guess because it's all reversed... The riffs, etc. all has to be played the other way around.
I tried it, I can't even get a proper note out of it..
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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Mgimino
20 posts
Jul 11, 2009
7:09 PM
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What Harpist said, it's confusing and awkward and I don't want to relearn the instrument for a third and fourth time time (LP, TB, then reverse for both!)
Adam's grip seems interesting, but I tried it and it seems like learning that or reference standard with my left hand wouldn't be any easier or harder, so I'm just going to stick with the latter.
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Tryharp
236 posts
Jul 11, 2009
7:22 PM
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MG,
Like GH, I tried Adams grip and just couldnt get a good seal, but I think there is a possiblity it could be easier for you to learn Adams grip, than relearn the standard. I think a person naturally does things left or right handed, and it is difficult to learn it against your bodies natural want ( think throwing a ball, writing etc. ) Whereas Adams is a symetrical grip, and might just come naturally to you if you can seal it up. I tend to think success with this grip may have something to do with the size of hands, but could be wrong.
Tryharp
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GermanHarpist
475 posts
Jul 11, 2009
7:33 PM
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Mgimino: " (LP, TB, then reverse for both!) " lol, you forgot your nose... Its just made for split chords...
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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ChrisA
46 posts
Jul 11, 2009
7:42 PM
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I have switched to the grip some time ago and now only use that. I think the key to get a good seal with the grip is to keep both thumbs against the corners of the mouth and shove the chin in the v space below the harp, at least it works for me. Tryharp, the main reason why i switched is because i have smaller hands and have problems keeping the seal with the traditional hold.
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Tryharp
237 posts
Jul 11, 2009
7:53 PM
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Chris,
OK, V. Interesting!! I was thinking bigger hands might be better??!!
Tryharp
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Andrew
424 posts
Jul 12, 2009
3:00 AM
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I use two thumbs up. I find I can then use the left thumb to control the harp's position much better and faster than the traditional grip can.
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Kingley
216 posts
Jul 12, 2009
3:49 AM
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There are various hand grips.
The most common being the thumbs up grip (which I think Adam uses) and the thumb down grip (standard grip?) where the thumb is under the harp
.
Then of course there are the grips that Rick Estrin and Carlos Del Junco use which I have never seen anyone else use. The grip that Carlos uses is very similar to how most players hold a chromatic when amplified.
All of these grips work well and i think it's just a matter of finding what suits you best. Sometimes it's one or the other, sometimes it's a combination of a few.
For instance when cupping a mic I always use the thumb down grip. But when playing acoustic I will often switch between thumb down, thumbs up and the "Estrin" grip.
I think that the size of your hands is not relevant unless you are cupping a huge mic. Even then it's how you seal it off that counts. Big hands like those of Andy Just do indeed make cupping a bullet mic easier, but small hands like Annie Raines has can also give you a good seal and allow that "fat" tone that harp players rave about.
So don't think that because you have small hands you won't ever get a good seal on a mic and harp.
Of course good tone is about a hell of a lot more than just hand grip, but it does play a huge part especially in amplified harp and of course acoustic techniques.
I would say play how you feel most comfortable but from time to time mix it up just for practice and over time you may find you prefer one way of holding the harp to another.
Remember variety is the spice of life.
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2009 3:53 AM
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Tryharp
238 posts
Jul 12, 2009
4:22 AM
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Kingley,
With thumbs up ( Adam ) grip, if I position the harp so that the back is just sealed off, it leaves a certain area at the front that needs to be sealed off with the chin. My chin is just not that shape. I thought it was because my hands werent big enough, but maybe my chin is not long and pointy enough!!
If you take a sp20 ( or something without side vents ) with thumb over the ten and cheek blocking I can shut it right down with with a standard grip, but not with a thumbs up grip.
As you said its horses for coarses, certain grips suit certain people.
Tryharp
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eharp
287 posts
Jul 12, 2009
5:34 AM
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i use the thumbs up grip. i have always used it. i always referred to as drink water from a stream. (so very far eastern sounding.) the clam grip seemed awkward to me.
and with the thumbs up grip, either hand can hold/control the harp.
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Tryharp
239 posts
Jul 12, 2009
5:49 AM
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Eharp,
After that description " drink water from stream" now after 2 years I can do it.
I could always drink water from stream and now I can Adam grip.... Its awkward for me, and I'm not about to change, but great description!!! If there isnt any water leaking out of there, there isnt much air coming out either.
For me, the palmns go under the chin to seal it off.
Nice work
Tryharp
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Mgimino
21 posts
Jul 12, 2009
12:36 PM
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I've been trying to switch to my left hand today, well Lip pursing isn't so bad, but when I tongue block my finger gets in the way of my embochure! Using my other hand, I get more mouth on the harp and playing the 1 and 2 holes are a nightmare.
I force myself to continue though...
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tookatooka
286 posts
Jul 12, 2009
1:04 PM
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Mgimino,
I had the same problem and tried to use my left hand but just couldn't get on with it. I am only a leisure player and play for my own enjoyment. I decided that as I wasn't going to take it too seriously and play in a band etc, that I'd continue with the method that I feel most comfortable with. I haven't found it to be too much of an inconvenience and that the sound doesn't suffer that much.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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Mgimino
22 posts
Jul 12, 2009
1:28 PM
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It's not really an inconvenience using the right hand, it really only presents a problem with micing as I found out. .
I have seen Sonny Boy II playing in some videos on YT and he just plays straight into a standing mic and has great tone, so I guess I could do that if i wanted.
But I think it would be better for me to correct this now before it becomes ingrained further into my muscle memory. I have been practicing for a few hours now and I am progressing and I think pretty soon I'll be 100%.
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2009 1:39 PM
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mickil
362 posts
Jul 12, 2009
1:40 PM
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Mgimino,
When I came back to the harp last year - also for about the 3rd or 4th time - I had an awful time using the standard grip for a similar reason to yourself. It nearly drove me completely bonkers.
My index finger just felt like it was always in the way, and my thumb, when playing around hole 6 or above, seemed to really mess up my embouchure.
But, the problem did go away. In fact, I don't really think about it anymore.
I don't know how you've approached LP'ing, but I got really obsessed with the thing about 'having as much of the harp in your mouth as possible while still producing a single note'. I suppose I took it too literally.
When I bought an MB - I'd been using Big Rivers - initially, it seemed to make the problem worse because, from front to back, it's a very small harp.
Nevertheless, with a ittle practice, I realised that if I just had a slightly smaller embouchure everything was fine. I think that MBs - well, at least from my experience - tend to dictate a smaller embouchure: shape of the cover plates, I suppose.
As for the thumb, I found that, ironically, having it forward a little actually made things better: if you have it too far back, it makes the knuckle nearest the nail jam into your chin, with my hands, anyway.
I think a lot of these sorts of things can be made worse by thinking about them. But, for some of us, it's in our nature; I know it's in mine.
As for the thumbs-up grip and the problem of getting a good seal, have a look at these threads where it was discussed extensively:
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/430108.htm
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/349975.htm
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
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eharp
288 posts
Jul 12, 2009
1:51 PM
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" If there isnt any water leaking out of there, there isnt much air coming out either."
that is what i tell my student. if i see "water leaking" i tell her she is going thirsty today.
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Mgimino
23 posts
Jul 12, 2009
3:19 PM
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Hey mickil,
You are talking about getting use to reference standard correct? My LP isn't the really problem, it's my tongue block embouchure. When I used my right hand, my mouth was free to be pretty deep on the harp without any obstruction, so I could hit those 2 and one holes with no problem.
THen switching to my left and all of a sudden my mouth has to work around the finger and can't be freely on the harp and feels awkward.
It's coming along though, and i think in a week it will be natural.
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GermanHarpist
481 posts
Jul 12, 2009
3:45 PM
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Mgimino, I was fooling around a bit with the hand positions... when using the traditional hand postion - what about simply shifting the left hand a little bit back.. you can still get a good cup that way while there is enough space for TBing.
like this...
instead of this
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2009 3:46 PM
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gene
214 posts
Jul 12, 2009
4:59 PM
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Is there anybody with bony hands and bony chin out there who can get a seal with "thumbs up"? I sure as heck can't!
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Miles Dewar
390 posts
Jul 13, 2009
12:49 PM
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I just press my thumb meat together under my bottom lip. Let #'s 8,9 and 10 rest on the web of your right thumb to allow the thumb meat to move closer together.
Try that.
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---Go Chicago Bears!!!---
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Mgimino
24 posts
Jul 13, 2009
6:26 PM
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Harpist that's what I have been doing so far. Still feels awkward moving down the harp with my left hand, but I've been making it work.
Michael
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