Buddha
860 posts
Jul 23, 2009
12:07 AM
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a person or two came into my home tonight and took my wife's purse. I was in my shop, practicing music and my wife was in the bedroom with headphones on. Most of the dogs were in the room with me and didn't bark until it was too late. My male rottie chased somebody outside and through the yard but the asshole got over the wall before he got bit.
I didn't even know somebody was in the house until they tossed the purse back over the wall. All the cash and prescription medicine were taken.
This was a scary moment for me. To know that I have dogs that can severely damage a person on command but to realize they are too comfortable and acclimated to household sounds is not making me feel great.
I'm happy only a few hundred bucks where taken and nothing worse happened. However, knowing that somebody was IN the house while I was home makes me think about things I never thought I would think about.
Loaded guns. I now have all of my guns loaded and ready to go. I think I also need to spike my wall so people can't jump over it.
Since I have six dogs, two of them will forced to live outside.
I do not feel good that I will be gone for a week for SPAH, leaving my wife alone.
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Buddha
861 posts
Jul 23, 2009
12:25 AM
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I have french ring dogs, they are trained to a much higher level than regular police dogs. There is a guarding component to it. It's not that they wouldn't or weren't guarding, they were just sleeping and didn't notice anything because I had fan blowing and music playing. They eventually noticed and did what they were supposed to do. Had they alerted in time, somebody would have been pressed against the wall with a couple of snarling and barking dogs showing pure aggression.
My dogs are taught to do a bark and hold first and bite after that doesn't work. This is a pic of my rott doing a bark and hold. He just barks, if the person moves he'll get bit or if I tell him to bite.
This is a pic of the footprints from my wet grass to my house.
Last Edited by on Jul 23, 2009 12:27 AM
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Kingley
267 posts
Jul 23, 2009
12:35 AM
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Sorry to hear about this Chris.
Unfortunately with rising levels of unemployment and the ever increasing drug addiction problems prevalent in todays society, it's becoming more and more frequent for these kinds of things to happen.
Thankfully no one was hurt, that's the main thing.
Stay safe.
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Arbite
78 posts
Jul 23, 2009
12:47 AM
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Disgusting how people behave, =((
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http://www.youtube.com/arbite83
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scstrickland
133 posts
Jul 23, 2009
12:49 AM
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Wow, Sorry dude. I have motion sensitive lights and an alarm that, even when turned off, beeps when an outside door is opened. When it beeps "ol' Pavlov" goes running.
The worst thing about a break in is, it leaves you distrustful of humanity and feeling completely violated. I hope this does not ruin your trip to SPAH.
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Oisin
287 posts
Jul 23, 2009
1:35 AM
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I feel for you Chris. It took me months to get over being burgled and even now, 3 years later, I still get angry at when I think of the motherfucker who did it. I found out quite quickly that it was a neighbour who did it but the police did nothing and my only comfort was that he was arrested a few weeks later for the same thing
Even though I lost a lot of stuff including all my kids toys and video games etc I didn't really care about that, only that some asshole had been in my house. I have always been a committed passivist but I would have easily dropped that commitment for 30 minutes so I could have beaten the shit out of the rat faced little fucker.
The guy who did your house was very lucky this time but comfort yourself in the fact that he'll not be at liberty for long .....any asshole who breaks into a house full of attack dogs can't have too much up top.
Oisin
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MrVerylongusername
434 posts
Jul 23, 2009
2:50 AM
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Sorry to hear that Chris.
I can't imagine that after being chased by an angry Rottie, anyone (even a desperate crackhead) would think about coming back. (but the twisted part of me would love it if he did and was greeted by your entire welcoming committee!)
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Gray
89 posts
Jul 23, 2009
3:24 AM
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Thats a real shit when ya mates (dogs) dont hear beyond what they normally know.
Its also a shit to deal with an unpridictable neighbourhood.
My dog is on the ball all the time.It twich's if a cockroach runs.
Thats the thing with roty's.hard but slow.There hearing aint sharp.
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EddyLizard2
40 posts
Jul 23, 2009
4:02 AM
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Let me also express my family's sympathy to your's!!
Last Edited by EddyLizard2 on Jun 24, 2013 3:34 PM
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LIP RIPPER
89 posts
Jul 23, 2009
4:11 AM
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You're damn right about the guns. A gun that isn't loaded is useless. Every gun I own has one in the chamber. That is a loaded gun,"chambered". Otherwise you're pissin in the wind. My wife and I talk about this and go through a drill of what to do, where the guns are etc. You should even have one stashed in your workshop, I do. Should push come to shove, you wont get a second chance and the amount of time it would take to load a gun in an emergency could be fatal. Imagine how long it will take just to draw the weapon and click the safety off.
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jbone
102 posts
Jul 23, 2009
4:37 AM
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i don't mess with pistols for home defense. i DO have a shotgun loaded with buck. we also sad to say, keep the doors locked whether we're home or away. this is a fairly insular little neighborhood. most of us know each other and watch out for each other. we live in a cul de sac and only those essential, like the bug man, pizza guy, etc, get directions to the house. and of course friends we trust.
my wife is a reporter so her security is a real consideration. some people get pissed when they see their name associated with a crime and bust they were at the heart of. God help them if they try and take it out on her when i'm home.
to my knowledge nobody has ever burgled here. but very close by in the next neighborhood and all over this city- like most cities these days- there is a pattern of burglaries, frequent and steady.
buddha, that looks like a well-trained dog. what makes me nervous about dogs like that is the idiots who don't train them well, and they roam the neighborhood and kill others' pets, attack joggers, children, etc.
this state is currently in the middle of a controversy between pit bull owners and the new laws banning them. while it's true that the dogs are just dogs, to me, if one can't totally control a guard dog, that animal is a danger to a community. seen that too many times.
i'll stick with the shotgun and the mace. and a surprise or 2.
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Buzadero
102 posts
Jul 23, 2009
6:18 AM
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I was not anywhere near Phoenix last night.
You'll hear a million different opinions and philosophies in regard small arms in the home. Nobody is absolutely correct. Anyone can cite a fine argument, manipulate statistics, or offer an exception as an example.
But, I tend to agree with the shotgun-for-the-home reasoning. Unless you are fully trained, and maintain your abilities at a fine edge, the last thing you want (especially in your house), is a sidearm. With all the dogs, you have way too many moving organics that could take a round when the shit gets hot. Remember that a handgun round can travel through several layers of sheetrock, potentially hitting someone or something in the next room, or even in your next-door neighbor's house.
Get a nice and simple Mossberg 500 series from Big 5 or some other source. Put a pistol grip on it. Take your wife out and you guys both fire it without earplugs, so you know what to expect. If you ever have kids, have them do the same thing. With the kids, you aren't teaching them to use it, but rather allowing their little brains to understand the magnitude of the consequences of pulling the trigger.
Take that shotty back home and stash it in the bedroom. Don't lock it in a closet where you can't get to it, except whenever you leave the house. Make the first round either a blank, or fill it with salt or rubber buckshot (I'll send you some). Always keep that first round racked and ready and never change it. That way, your first round can be argued as "non-lethal force", and when you wake up drunk some night, your brain will always know the first shot is a psy-tool. Defensively, that first round can go into a man's ass as he goes over the fence, or in the improbable event that someone gets their hands on that weapon and turns it on you.....you will always know that you can take it from them get it halfway up their ass before they recover from the surprise that that first round didn't stop you.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
Last Edited by on Jul 23, 2009 6:33 AM
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Buzadero
103 posts
Jul 23, 2009
6:24 AM
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RGB,
Did you ever get my email to your:
frcn AT cncnet dot com
address?
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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geordiebluesman
200 posts
Jul 23, 2009
7:04 AM
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Hey Buddah bad luck mate that must have made you feel shit on several levels so i thought i'd tell you something to cheer you up. Many years back my mate Micky Burns got home late from a night out and caught a little thieving twat trying to steal his motor bike, Big Fucking Mistake, Micky was a Rugby player back then and he kicked seven shades of shite out of the twat, He then phoned the police and asked them to come and do their job. The copper asked why the thief had'nt run away whilst Micky was on the phone and could'nt believe it when Micky told him "he can't run away coz i've nailed his hand to my gate post!, And he bloody well had! And after Micky went through his pockets and got some ID and threatend him with much worse the guy refused to press assault charges, That's the way to do it! PS check out my Rude Funny and a bit Naughty thread i think it might appeal to your sense of humour
Last Edited by on Jul 23, 2009 7:09 AM
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XHarp
115 posts
Jul 23, 2009
7:48 AM
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That's terrible news Buddha. I hope the wife isn't too frightened at this.
It seems to me that the dogs did their job and would have been successfull earlier if they weren't laying in comfort away from their duty with their hearing blocked by the white noise of the fans.
Its likely that having two living outside "on patrol" is going to resolve the issue. And making sure the inside dogs are not "resting" too much will help too.
Scary to think though that someone was that close for that long that they could scout out the purse, gain entry, and leave with the goods without being detected earlier.
Personally I'd recommend the installation of entry alarms or perimter alarms instead of the loaded guns and a safe room for the wife when alone.
While the issue is scary and our first reaction is to prepare to the max, it takes a specially trained, or particularily cold person to fire a weapon at someone with the intent to injure or kill, in self defense or protection.
And of course the blood left behind lingers for a long time on the mind.
Might be better to expand on your avoidance and prevention instead of defense.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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jonsparrow
651 posts
Jul 23, 2009
8:14 AM
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that sucks man. do you keep your doors locked? or did they break in?
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Buddha
863 posts
Jul 23, 2009
8:22 AM
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the front door is always locked. I have never locked the back door because the back yard is secured and it's surrounded by a 6ft block wall. It never occured to me that somebody would jump that wall with six dogs who live in the house.
Xharp, the purse was out on the counter, you can see into the house if yoou look over the back wall and once in the yard and at the back door, there is only about 20ft to grabbed the purse.
We have a security system but it's not active when were home and awake, who doesn't do that?
The dogs should be enough. I just have to think about it and train for it.
Dogs in general are great at perimeter defense but once an intruder is within the perimeter dogs in general aren't going to alert because they've been conditioned to think people IN the house with me home is ok. I'd bet 9/10 have conditioned their dogs this way.
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jaymcc28
98 posts
Jul 23, 2009
9:01 AM
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"...I'd bet 9/10 have conditioned their dogs this way..."
I totally agree. I have 3 medium sized dogs that patrol my property all day. You can't see my house from the road so if anyone approaches on foot or by car up the driveway my dogs go crazy. They are on an electric fence so they can't get to the driveway but to get to the house you'd have to cross their path. Frankly, only my Anatolian Sheherd would be of any threat even if that happened (they're true pets, not trained guard/attack dogs). HOWEVER, if anyone, including a stranger came OUT of the house all 3 would assume that person was OK and would probably roll over and show their bellies for a rub rather than their teeth.
Sorry to hear about that, Chris. Be safe.
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XHarp
117 posts
Jul 23, 2009
12:55 PM
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Just looked at the photos too, That's one mean looking Rott. Wonder what the thief would think with that trapped around his leg or arm?
"We have a security system but it's not active when we're home and awake, who doesn't do that?"
Too True. Security sytems are meant for when you're not around.
"...I'd bet 9/10 have conditioned their dogs this way..."
Probably a damn good thing too or everyone would have a chomp out their A-- whenever they left the house.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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isaacullah
268 posts
Jul 23, 2009
1:48 PM
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Hey Chris... Man PHX is getting even more sketchy. A couple of months ago, some high muotherfucker tried to beat down our carport door here in Tempe at 3:00AM. Turns out, he was just high as a kite and had no idea where he was. He thought our house was the place where he was staying and that he was locked out. He thought he was in MESA even though we live in east Tempe! Good thing was that the police came in less than 5 minutes and arrested the bastard. Then a couple weeks after that, some other bastard stole my bike from the side of my house in broad daylight! These fuckers are getting very bold around here... It's getting more and more scary....
Sorry to hear about your break in. I totally understand how you are feeling right now. It's very violating! I just hope it doesn't happen again!
~Isaac
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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Andrew
463 posts
Jul 23, 2009
2:18 PM
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Maybe Buddha's dogs were too well trained. Maybe they heard the intruder, looked at Buddha, thought, "the fat guy seems OK with it, so what the fuck" and went back to sleep again.
My girlfriend has had three English bull-terriers that never had a day's training in their lives, and they'd go crazy whenever anyone got within 6 feet of the house.
Last Edited by on Jul 23, 2009 2:19 PM
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gene
217 posts
Jul 23, 2009
7:55 PM
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I feel bad about two dogs that will be forced to live outside after having been part of the family. That's tragic!
Also, I have a question:
If a dog is holding somebody, will that somebody be able to get to his weapon, if he has one?
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Bluzdude46
76 posts
Jul 24, 2009
1:58 AM
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Sorry Buddha, really sucks. I've given up handguns after I left the service mostly because I had kids in the house. I too have worked with dogs in Schutzhund sport and have seen some ring sport. I'm very surprised the jerks got away with it. Dogs are also a fine line, too sharp and you wind up with handler aggression which is a bitch I can tell you from experience. Only thing you can do is keep up with exercises at home to keep the pups from getting complacent. Music playing or not they should have alerted better. Guns are your right, please be careful. Accidents always happen to someone else until it's your turn. It's odd but I live a mile from the Baltimore City line leave doors unlocked and I'm never bothered because of the dog deterrent but my place is smaller with just one entrance for the dog to concentrate on. Having 1 or 2 dogs outside as perimeter dogs is probably a good idea, you may consider rotating the duty to keep them all in the program and get a helper to pull incident exercises.
and to answer genes question, Dogs deter, alert, detain and unfortunately it's also their job to take the first bullet but if you ever saw an active bite you would realize that it would take a fairly impressive individual to be able to manage getting a weapon to bear vs a trained dog
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Buddha
866 posts
Jul 24, 2009
5:45 AM
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bluzdude, they DID alert but at the last minute. If they weren't all in the room with me, they would have been more on top of things.
My mali is fairly sharp and I'm convinced he's the one that would have bite if he weren't laying at my feet. My rott has had a lot of civil training and he's the one that alerted in the end.
I don't blame dogs for not alerted to normal household sounds, which opening a back door would be. As soon as something sounded the weird the Rott was up and at em..
We've done plenty of home invasion scenarios but that mostly trains the dogs to think it's OK to bite in the house.
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bluemoon
8 posts
Jul 24, 2009
9:20 PM
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If I may put in my 2 cents worth. I think that having 1 or 2 dogs outside at all times from now on will go a long way to prevent a repeated occurance.
As far as firearms goes. That is up to each person and their beliefs and abilities. I follow the quote I read from Bill Jordon, Never bring a handgun to a gunfight, an Ithica Roadblocker is about right. Since they are hard to find and expensive when you do, I had to settle on Rem 870 12 ga riots instead. It may not be the 10 ga semi auto Bill liked, but it still will get the job done.
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sopwithcamels266
179 posts
Jul 26, 2009
3:51 PM
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Buddha:Bad news man and as others have said the world over.Not a lot to do with harps on this post right.
If I were you I had edit your post and scrap this particular thread or change what you put.
I have some limited knowledge on English law and I guess there are some similarities to the States systems.
I'm helping you out here man if I were you I would not be advertising what you have said youv'e set up on your original post.
Hey man I'm on your side but just reflect on how this post could be used in a court of law. And who it would favour in the event of certain happenings.
regards.
Just a thought
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2009 3:53 PM
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Buzadero
106 posts
Jul 26, 2009
6:49 PM
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Now you've got me curious. If I may inquire, what is wrong with the first post? I, too have a "limited knowledge" of the law. And, I am fairly well versed in American laws in regard intruders, preventative measures and orders of magnitude of response. Unless I am missing something, my opinion is that Boody's first post creates no issue save for a man's declaration of preparedness orf intent to prepare. Here in America (for a little while longer anyway) being prepared with a firearm and stating as much is not "premeditation" in the event of a response of force. In the after-analysis of a response, the righteousness of the response (and all the specific factors of that response) are the determining issues. His post is no more careless than a sign that reads "Trespassers will be shot" (or "eaten").
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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gene
220 posts
Jul 26, 2009
9:24 PM
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I agree with Buzadero, except that such matters are not "American law." Laws vary from state to state and people should be familiar with the self-defense laws of their state.
(A person needs to know when he can legally have the pleasure of killing somebody. LOL)
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2009 9:25 PM
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Buddha
871 posts
Jul 27, 2009
6:36 AM
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AZ is one of the best state to live in if you own guns.
SOP, this is not just a harmonica board, we are a community of like minded individuals.
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sorin
7 posts
Jul 27, 2009
7:36 AM
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Buddha, I think this was just a freak accident , the burglar got lucky , the purse was in a visible spot , the dogs were all with you , your wife had the headphones on . I think that a couple of warning signs ( to let know that you have security dogs) placed in the right spots (somewhere on the back door)will deter all the burglars ,thieves , which usually are some opportunistic cowards.
I own a dog too ( German shepherd) and if somebody would try to break into my house , I'm sure he could do some damage , but I do not want to see my dog stabbed or shot , so I put some signs warning signs in front and back of the house , some neighbors got hit some months ago ,but they stayed away from my house.
My 2 cents.
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2009 7:37 AM
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Pluto
5 posts
Jul 27, 2009
7:48 AM
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Buddha-
I agree with sorin. A freak accident. Stuff happens, weather you have dogs or guns.
As for the chatter who eluded to our alleged "eroding" gun rights, sorry dude, it ain't gonna happen. Adding to the hysteria that this administration is interested in revoking our gun rights is just that, hysteria. I'm a liberal (Obama supporter) and a gun owner. Our second amendment rights are no more in danger now than during the previous administration.
peace
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