tookatooka
320 posts
Jul 26, 2009
12:00 PM
|
I started out with Cheapos then Lee Oskars, went onto Bushman DF's and landed on Suzukis all of which I believe are Tuned Equal Temperamant.
Now that I am progressing on my harp playing journey I'm finding that playing chords and double notes is not really very satisfactory. For example you really can detect a harsh beat when drawing 5 and 6 simultaneously.
I'd like to progress further into chordal and multiple note playing and wonder if I'm right in assuming that I now need to consider Just Intonation tuning for smoother more mellow sounding chords?
If so what makes and models of harps are available that provide this tuning?
I've tried to put off having to buy Marine Bands for the obvious problems with wood and servicability but if that is the only option available then I may have to give in.
I'm looking for comfort, servicability, spare reedplates etc but don't want to have to keep drilling and modding them. Oh! and price is an important factor also.
I'm considering retuning my Suzukis to be similar to MB but I haven't tried that yet and don't know how successful that would be. I haven't done any tuning before and it looks like it could be a bit of a minefield of problems. And no, I couldn't afford the Suzuki Fabulous
Thanks for any responses.
----------
When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
|
MrVerylongusername
437 posts
Jul 26, 2009
12:19 PM
|
Hering Vintage 1923 is tuned to 7 limit Just Intonation - waaaaaay cheaper than a Fabulous, although the selection from harmonicas-direct is somewhat limited at the moment.
|
tookatooka
321 posts
Jul 26, 2009
12:29 PM
|
Thanks MrVlun,
I've been doing some reading particularly Richard Sleigh and I'm getting myself confused. I don't know a lot about the theory etc so 7 limit is something I'll need to read up on.
What I am finding out is that TET is great for single note playing but chords are compromised and JI is great for chords and single note melody is compromised.
I'd like the best of both worlds and realise now I can't have it. I need to think what it is I need most and decide then. Or maybe use both types of tunings, but then there is the expense. Decisions, decisions.
Thanks though.
----------
When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
|
Tonyh
9 posts
Jul 26, 2009
1:36 PM
|
19 limit JI might be the answer to your problem. It is a compromise tuning between JI and ET. The chord will sound smooth and the single note will be in tune ( not perfectly if you comprare with a piano but good enough for average human ears).
Check this website :
http://ohw.se/hca/tntheory.php
Table 8B is 19 limit.
Lot of good info on tuning on this site too. Tuning harp is not that hard and every serious harp player should learn to do it.
Hope this helps !
Antoine Hamel
|
tookatooka
324 posts
Jul 26, 2009
1:51 PM
|
Thanks Tonyh. There is some good information there. Thank you very much.
----------
When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
|
jawbone
67 posts
Jul 26, 2009
4:43 PM
|
Hey Tooka - I ran into the same problem - Here's what I do - sounds weird - but here goes. I like the feel of the Suzuki Bluesmaster, smooth comb and cover right to the end. Don't like the ET. Like the sound of the Big River or Special 20 but don't like the feel, especially the Big River. So I cut the ends off the BR plate and round the edges. I then trim off the Suzuki comb at the back (just the little lip that recesses the plate) to allow the BR plate to hang over. You have to file the holes in the plate to allow for the slight difference in the cover alignment and also drill new holes in the comb to align with the BR plate. So I end up with a reasonable priced JI tuning with the recessed ABS combs and the covers that I like the feel of. Now, I have a fairly well equipped shop so that really helps (Drill press, grinder, buffer, etc.) I am going to try this with a sp 20 but around here (Canada) the Big River is about $20 and the Sp. 20 is around $30. So if I can tweak the Big River to get the responsiveness I like, I will probably stay on the route. It sounds like a lot of work but I only have to do 1/2 the work once and the plate work is minimal as I have a metal shear. I am open to any suggestions any one else has. PS I don't like fiddling with the tuning.
----------
If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
|
sorin
6 posts
Jul 26, 2009
6:21 PM
|
I had the same issues , regarding the harp tuning and I solve it with the Special 20 , it's a marine band plate (long slot reeds) , with a plastic comb , and compromise tuning.
PS: Took I was wondering in what context do you use the 5,6 draw
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2009 6:23 PM
|
tookatooka
326 posts
Jul 27, 2009
4:30 AM
|
Thanks jawbone your remedy would be beyond my workshop facilities but it sounds great what you are doing. The only problem is I don't want to have to mod any replacement plates I get due to the fact I have limited metalworking kit. A drill is about as good as it gets here. Thanks though.
Thanks sorin, yes the Sp20 may be my best bet. They are tuned the same as the MB aren't they? Plus replacement plates wouldn't be a problem. Also, are they physically the same size as the MB in length? The 5 6 draw is just that, nothing special. I use it along with 2 3 and 3 4 , 4 5 draw and blow in some tunes.
MAny thanks for your response.
----------
When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
|
mickil
401 posts
Jul 27, 2009
5:22 AM
|
Tx2,
You might also want to consider the new MB Crossover. True they're not far off £45 UK, but they do have a sealed comb - about time - are serviceable and are generally designed not to be thrown out with the garbage after a few months.
The tuning is compromised, which is that 'best of both worlds' you seek. Apparently, the tuning is a little different to the MB and SP20; Hohner claim that this makes them more suited to playing in different positions.
Also, as far as I can tell from zooming in on the pics, they've slightly altered the shape of the cover plates at the front, thus giving more clearance from the reeds; a bit more like a SP20 than an MB, less curved. No more 1 draw reed rattle on the low keys, me hopes!
Anyway, I ramble. When my first one arrives - hopefully in a few days - I'll do a post or a vid.
----------
'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
|
jawbone
68 posts
Jul 27, 2009
6:19 AM
|
I'll mention this but you should make your own judgment call. One mod I made to the sp 20 to make it more lip friendly was - on the lower left coverplate I made a "ramp" using JB Weld. I basically filled in the corner and covered the sharp edge. The company assured me that the material is safe once cured. I found that playing for extended periods would chew up the inside of my lower left lip. This little ramp helped allow my lip to slide over more easily.
----------
If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2009 6:20 AM
|
mr_so&so
173 posts
Jul 27, 2009
9:19 AM
|
For what it's worth, I've gone back to Marine Bands (which I can still get pretty cheaply for some reason, ~$30 Canadian, or ~US$26). If you follow Dave Payne's video for taking them apart, you can seal up the comb with some salad bowl/butcher's block oil in an hour or so. While you're at it do some reed gapping per Adam's video, and you've got yourself a good harp. So far I've just pushed the nails back in and Bob's your uncle.
I was using mostly Big Rivers up to now, but they can be pretty tough to play sometimes.
|
Bluzdude46
86 posts
Jul 27, 2009
1:51 PM
|
MB's SP20's Cross Harps, Blues Harps all have Just Into tuning. I was surprised to find out that the Golden Melody was the only Hohner Diatonic (as far as I know) that had Equal Temp tuning. I did not know that before but I carried an F GM and I played Hey Bartender for years but I just happen to play that with mostly single note lead playing and never made the connection. I really suck at the Music theory part of this. If I didn't have a really good ear for what works and what doesn't I would consider myself a serious hack.
|
