ya it is kinda pointless to compete against pros, but then again think about any type of comp. its not like people aint allowed to enter just cause there too good. thats the whole point. you think some one did better then you, so practice more an do better next time. till then may the best hold the title. unless we have it set up so theres a amateur contest an a pro contest. then things could get interesting.
I don't see any reason why Christelle couldn't participate , and I am not sure why it's called a contest in the first place , it should be just for fun , without any winners . But the thing with not having an opinion on Manji because some customizers might get upset ,that is , I don't know funny or BS , I cannot decide.
@Sorin - The main idea of the 1st contest was that everybody would vote and that the top 5 entries would get some sort of evaluation/advice from Adam and/or Chris (Buddha). But I guess that because doing evaluations (as a prize) was just a suggestion at the time and never really agreed upon, it never happened. Anyway, despite of that, we agreed to have another "contest" with rules and all. And even though there will be no prize, we will still vote for the best players.... Now, my point was that if this is a "contest", it should be for the "students" and should not include "teachers". And if it's NOT a contest, well anybody can join ... just decide a title and we all participate but we don't vote.....
(actually I let the "manji" comment slide because I thought it was kind of tasteless, but perhaps it was a well mend try at good old fashion humor... I couldn't decide either) ---------- DutchBones Tube
its realy not that serious. she submitted a video. it was good. i enjoyed it. of course its the best one. just dont vote for it when the voteing comes.
Christelle, I really liked your contribution. I also cannot agree with some of the comments that have been raised re your eligibility for the competition. Everybody, I think, is a real winner in this comp. And we are all winners on the fact that you are also throwing your hat in and having a go.
That said, perhaps I should be banned from comment as I have not put my entry in. I'm fairly stone age with this youtube space age technology and am yet not equipped nor tech savvy enough to work it. Will have to get one of my children or grandchildren to school me up.
Summertime is a real favourite of mine however roaming around youtube I find that my preferences really are for some of the renditions that are done on a chromatic harp. Would using a chromatic be cheating? Probably, as its not what is commonly used here! Similarly using a harp not yet released, or even a custom harp, or indeed a natural minor or a retuned 'paddy richter' ie really where should we draw the line? I personally don't think we ever should.
All I know is after hearing Christelles rendition on a Manji is that I cannot wait to get my hands on a Manji.
I don't see anything against Christelle participating. Yeah, she's pro, but as I see it the more pro entries the better, the more for us students to learn from (Christelle, you still have to add it to the playlist, though..).
I thought about having a voting thread and a parallel "criticise me" thread where people can post their entries if they want to.
I'm also for changing the name from "competition" to "challenge", btw.
If it is a challenge as opposed to a competition (and I'm all for that idea) why does there need to be a deadline for submissions? can't discussion/critique be ongoing?
When I suggested a 2nd HPC there was the usual and expected debate about rules and what have you.
Patrick Barker raised a similar concern to that which you have raised here and I thought he had a point. But, the concensus went against his view - and mine - and that is that. We discussed all this at the time, weeks ago.
Anyone who wanted to contribute to how the contest should be run had the opportunity to do so at the time.
German then asked if anyone wanted to write the rules, and, seeing as this time I suggested the contest, I took up the baton.
Not only did I carefully study everyone's views, I also spent a couple of hours trawling through threads from the previous contest. I didn't write the rules arbitrarily or according to my own whims.
I then asked if what I'd come up with was OK. I think that was about six weeks ago. So, I took it as red that the rules (including skill levels, which were discussed) had been agreed on.
I noticed from what you wrote earlier that you assumed that Christelle had not entered, as her entry wasn't on the playlist. If you go back through the thread, you'll see that with her second submission she said that she submitted it according to the rules this time, to paraphrase her. So I presume she has entered. A number of submissions weren't added to the playlist: some people don't know how. German has taken care of that.
Personally, I'm as pleased as punch that one of the pros entered our humble little contest. In one thread, I actually asked Christelle to join in, and I'm glad she did. After all, it's only a little bit of fun.
If I've not clarified how we did it this time round then have a look at the original thread; it's about two months old, so you'll have to rummage a bit.
Is it OK to leave it at that?
Cheers,
Mick ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
"I'm also for changing the name from "competition" to "challenge" "
Good idea G, that would solve a lot and while we're at it, lets get rid of the voting (or should we vote about that?) lol It would be more beneficial if people would give their feedback about the videos, positive AND negative (in a civilized way of course) so we can ALL learn from it....
@ jon - voting can be fun but also a hassle if you don't have enough time to sit down and watch every video... Getting feedback on your video is much more valuable and rewarding in my humble opinion than getting (perhaps) some votes (which you're not going to get anyway when the Big Guns enter the stage) Getting feedback on your play is a great motivator to enter, you don't learn anything from getting votes, you do from feedback ......
I've watched about 6 contributions so far. I'm not going to name names, but something that strikes me is that some people have feeling, and some people think that feeling is a technique. Can you work out who you are?
Last Edited by on Aug 30, 2009 5:33 AM
I don't have a contribution for the contest but I would like to think my opinion counts. I voted in the last competition. In doing so, It forced me to listen critically to every contribution. I felt that I was a part and had a say. I like the Idea that the community on MBH has created a competition/challenge, generally agreed on the rules and made it happen to great success without anybody throwing a fit. Now I see it being discussed that we should deconstruct this. Take away the deadline. Take away the voting. Just post stuff for people to comment on. IMO If one wants to post for comments, then do so. It was clear to me that this was a competition with voting and open to everyone and I think it should stay that way. If one doesn't have the time to watch all the videos then don't vote, you could still comment.
BTW thanks Mickil for all your hard work on putting this one together.
Last Edited by on Aug 30, 2009 6:11 AM
but people makes threads all the time wanting people to comment on there playing. having this is an organized event. makes the forum interesting an fun. if you want some one to critique your playing make a video of something your workin on that you think your doing good at. then ask what peoples opinions are. personally i dont care much what people think about my summer time video cause i dont even like it. but if i were to make my own thread an post a video of something iv been workin on, an am proud enough to post it, then i would like to hear what other people think. an BTW i think that leaving reviews for the videos takes alot longer then just a vote.
I must admit that I'm not too happy about entering a contest that is euphamistically called something else: it's a bit like that wishy-washy tosh they now have at some schools' sportsdays wereby no one can 'lose' in case their feelings are hurt. That's just bonkers, completely doo-lally-tat.
As Jon pointed out, people post threads on here all the time asking for peoples' opinions. And they get them, so that's cool.
I won't be entering any contest that isn't a contest. It just seems a bit pointless to me. In the UK half the people have been inculcated into that way of thinking, while the other half spend half their time pulling half their hair out over that kind of thing. A lot of us call it nambypambyism.
Next time round perhaps it would be fairer if we adopt Patrick's suggestion of 'how long you've been playing for' or mine of 'stating your skill level, beginner / intermediate / advanced' and asking to be judged accordingly.
As I said above, this was discussed at the time. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Wouldn't it be cool if more pros entered? Personally, if I made a fourth place behind Christelle, Buddha, Adam, and Joe Filisko, I would be riding the top of the world! That would be the same as a first place to me, (and I would of course minimize the quantum leap between my skills and those of the stars).
Change the name from "contest" to "Challenge?" That's just nambypamby overthinkingness. Suck it up--being judged against a performance like Christelle's is an honor--it gives me something to aspire to.
(BTW, Dutch--in America, KY is a lubricant used to perform the big nasty--just FYI ;-)
That was simple: I love this song this my long time favorite (when I was 7 or 8 my dad used to play that song by Billie Holliday on the LP turntable, and this is an emotional song for me). I thought that would be nice to post this here and putting me in the line, just like the others. there's something that change at SPAH 09: you all know that I was genuinely feeling like a beginner (still at some stage) and yes I was craving for recognition. I've met ones of ALL the great players of this planet, and they offered me the gift of saying that I was a part of their clan and that was not polite or anything. So yes I know now that I'm one of the best player of this planet (very weird to actually say this!!)
Still I don't forget where I come from, it was not too long ago when I was struggling (and still most of the time) with playing the truth, MY truth, then playing WITH and not AGAINST you, is a way to say that I'm a part of the blues circle (just like at SPAH when beginners were playing before Jason, Dennis, Steve Baker or Richard Sleigh).
That's not false humility, CM or Jason has been pretty clear saying that it was false humility, that I was fishing for compliments and all that, but I tell you what: THAT'S NOT, may be it comes from my education, or may be it comes from the fact that I'm french, to be honest I don't know...The only thing I know is that I'm trying my best on the only thing that remains in my life (no partner, no money, and trying to be someone in my new country): being a musician respected and loved...
Last Edited by on Aug 30, 2009 11:11 AM
I for one would love to be able to say I finished behind Christelle in a harp contest! (Of course, I didn't submit an entry.) I think having the pros is great. It gives us something to look at and work on for our own playing. I guess a big contest would have professional and amateur categories, but for a contest this size I'm not sure that is necessary. By the way Christelle, I like your version without the backing track even better than the one with a backing track. There are some other real good versions here too. I was on a medication last month that was giving me severe dry mouth so I wasn't practicing much. I'm looking foreword to the next contest though.
Um, I retract my remark about calling it a challenge. I think my intention had been confused. But I definitely don't retract my opinion that pros could and should be able to submit what they would do with the HPC. It's a learning experience for everyone to see how many ways something can be done and see what worked and didn't.
---------- ~Ryan Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Last Edited by on Aug 30, 2009 11:25 AM
Whatever you want to call this, its got me working on my own version of the song even though I can't enter due to lack of a computer issues. (I was looking a Mac laptops this morning and thinking that if I just had an extra grand, I could enter the contest.) I've been working on a reggae version of the song in second, third and forth position. If anybody's looking for ideas, the song works very well reggaeized.
As a poker player I'm very used to the concept of competitions involving both amateur and professional, I don't see the big deal.
Anyway, some great submissions! I kind of wish I had submitted something now.
My only comment is that for me, personally, 'Summertime' is a song that is best raw and acoustic... Some of the echo and effects sounded a bit off to me, but anyway, some great stuff thanks for sharing!
On another note, how do you record your song? I noticed a really nice echo like hall effect. Is that computer generated. THe only time I can get anything close to sounding like that is when I play in the bathroom.
I like the idea of "challenge" vs. "competition". A competition implies some prizes, maybe. A challenge is just that, it can still have some kind of winner, if we want. To advance as players we need to be challenged. It's great to have a bunch of takes on the same piece or the same style of piece, etc. I am thrilled to have some submissions by advanced/pro players, but I hope that does not discourage less skilled players from participating. Personally, I want any an all feedback, but others may not. A separate "comments" thread would solve that one. Personally, I find the voting part fun, but it's not necessary to the process, **EDIT** if **\EDIT** the majority don't want it. I think there needs to be some deadline to motivate people to get something done. Also, a deadline creates some group focus. But if people want to contribute later and get comments in the comments thread by resurrecting it, I'd have no problems with that either. The important thing is to rise to the challenges, learn something, and most importantly, have fun.
Last Edited by on Aug 31, 2009 12:53 PM
'Personally, I find the voting part fun, but it's not necessary to the process, the majority don't want it.'
Please would you point me to the thread(s) where it says 'the majority don't want it'?
Unless I'm much mistaken, that was the whole point of the thing / competition / challenge / contest / (get out thesaurus) from the get go. I simply don't understand.
There's the Eurovision Song Contest, the World Snooker Championship, the World Series, the Bushman harp thing, etc, etc, etc. They've all got winners and losers.
I really, honestly am confused. Perhaps I've missed something. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Yes, I'm up for the voting but seeing how there has been a dissapointing take-up of the competition, I can't see many who will want to bother to vote. Maybe we'll get a rush of entries just before the deadline. I hope so.
I'm not bothered where I'm positioned because for me I'm a winner already because:
I've learnt how to create a fairly reasonable quality video for YouTube.
I've overcome my camera fright.
I've competed against a world-class musician.
I've been able to create a simple musical arrangement which includes a counter-melody by myself. Until two years ago I had no musical experience whatsoever so that is quite an achievement for me.
I've proved to myself that I can apply myself to a difficult task and see it through to the end with a result.
Plus I've enjoyed the friendly rivalry and camaradarie of my fellow harp playing brothers and sister.
Hey! We're all winners but it would still be nice to know what others think, all the same.
I thought we'd had two competitions, dozens of posts and thousands of words in which to thrash all this stuff out, especeially the first one. Oh well, back to square one. Hey ho! ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Don't edit it cos then mine won't make any sense. Peeps will think I'm mad.
Ha ha!
The other week, someone deleted a post I'd responded to, so I had to spend ages editing my response just to stop the men in white coats coming round! ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
@Mick, too late... already edited. We all know you're mad anyway ;).
90 posts on this topic. Who said there was no interest in this contest/challenge? But I wish we had 90 entries instead. Hey, this is my 200th post. Wish we had 200 entries...
This is GobIronWards entry. It was originally posted on YouTube on 8th August but I don't think it was posted in the correct place and I don't know how to put it on the harpriends HPC playlist. Help anyone if you know how.
I don't think you can add a vid to a playlist unless it's on the same channel as the playlist. Is that right harp people?
Anyway, I just tried to download his vid using my Firefox download add-on app thingy so that I could add it to harpfriends, but the download thing has gone tits up for some reason.
I don't feel right sending him the password cos it's not really my channel. If German or someone can't sort it, is it OK to include it in the voting anyway?
I think that the playlist was originally - in HPC 1, I mean - there for ease of listening more than being a rule as such.
EDIT: I've fixed my download app thing and e-mailed him to ask if he wants it added to the playlist.
Perhaps I'm being daft, but it's not my vid to add without asking first. He seems to have dropped of the radar lately, so I didn't want to presume he wanted it included. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
No, mick, the video mustn't be on the same channel as the playlist. You only have to be logged in to harpfriends, then open the video and add it to the playlist.
Feel free to send the pw to who ever wants it. Harpfriends is us. And we all can administrate it - i.e. send passwords, work on description layout... whatever.
The only reason that I have it linked in my signature, is that I want people to click on it.
Let me emphasize this: WE ALL are Harpfriends!
Welcome :)
---------- germanharpist on Youtube - have a look at the mhb-community channel: harpfriends
Last Edited by on Sep 01, 2009 7:50 AM
Btw.: do you mind setting up the voting thread. I think to remember that I offered my help to do it, but I have too much stress at the moment (leaving for home and I still have to pack my stuff).
In the archive you can find the voting thread from the HPC1 as a template.
