The crossover is a Marine Band deluxe with a bamboo comb and new covers. Overall the crossover is a better harp and will make a better custom harp than the manji - that said the MB and Crossover are pretty much the same to me. I compared a brand new MB to a Crossover and actually thought the MB was better than the Crossover.
The Manji turns into a very nice harp with 20 minutes of tweaking and the crossover doesn't compare with the same about of work - this is due to the close tolerances of the Manji
The Manji is NOT a great harp for OBs. Yes you can pop them out without issue and you can nail them in fast passages but when you sustain them, they go to shit. The effect was lessened AFTER I tweaked it but the issue is still there.
The manji is great for $40 and if I had to choose between a stock marine band and Crossover, I would just get a regular MB.
Neither one of these harps are going to kill the custom harp market.
Good info...thanks. I'm liking my MB in A more every day. I opened the rear up today and it is a touch louder now. The oB on 5 and 6 can be sustained with vibrato..I did tweak them each just a little, but they really sound good now. Thanks for the comparison info. I'm thinking a guy like me is probably better off with the known quantity of the MB...maybe I'll skip the manji idea.
i plan on getting a manji just for the 'new' innovations it has... I dont own that many harmonicas as it is and owe it to myself to keep shopping around. When looking at the crossover, aside from the bamboo comb, i just wasnt convinced that alone warranted the extra price...
As far as I can tell from enlarging the picture in Hohner's '09 PDF catalogue, they've slightly altered the shape of the cover plates at the front, making them less curved, more angular: more like a SP20 than an MB. I presume this is to avoid 1 draw reed rattle.
It's hard to tell from the picture, though. In a word, am I right in my assumption.
Thanks. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
the manji still needs lots of work and the new reed profile isn't good for people who OB. In fact, I couldn't get rid of the squeal completely using the usual methods.
I'll fully tweak one later this week to see what happens. All I had to work with at SPAH was a flat head screwdriver, my hands and some gum.
Even with the tight tolerances, they are still not as close as I get can them.
I expect the custom harp prices to stay where they are.
Last Edited by on Aug 17, 2009 10:16 AM
Another thought to throw into the mix regarding the Manji is that because the reedplates will have different drillings for the fixing holes it will mean we won't be able to mix and match the reedplates with other harps in the Suzuki range. Shame. ----------
Peter at Harmonicas Direct is expecting them in mid-September. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
I can't find that YT vid on Brendan Power's channel. Do you have the link? ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
I'm very curious anyway. It'll be around the time when I get my Lotus Harp and I'm really looking forward to test driving both of them.
It'll be a big change regarding that I played 5$ Bluesharps to this day... (tweaked to the best of my knowledge). The sound will be awesome, but I'm kinda wondering how much the change will be a shock to my playing.
Nope, down the drain... but I'm working on them skills.
Thanks for that congaron, we should have more vids like this (from all different customizers).
Btw. people always say that customized harps sound much brighter (besides being much louder). It never occurred to me before, but its obvious that this is the reed swinging in the different overtones (pic 1,2,4,6,9). I'd guess, this is created mainly by transferring more force to the reed, i.e. good embossing and gapping. However, it could also be that equalling out the internal structure of the brass ("destressing" ?) helps decrease the dampening effect.
EDIT: controlling the structure of the reed is actually a pretty nice way of controlling the genaral overtone distribution (i.e. tone of the harp). Imagine singling out certain overtones...
I tried both the Manji and the Crossover at SPAH and the Manji won me over.
They are booth good harmonicas, with good playability and responce, but the Manji is (for me) a much better instrument than the crossover, at a much better price.
The Manji is super airtight and responsive, and when I say responsive, I mean REALLY fast. It has some pretty tight tolerances, that far exceed any of suzukis other products. It overblows and overdraws right out of the box, and for me, it did not squeal. And I tried several of them. It is also a very loud instrument, which is always a plus.
Now, the crossover can do most of that stuff too, but not even half as well. Plus, the crossover costs twice as much as the Manji.
Once they come out this Fall, the Manji is likely to become my stock harmonica of choice. The crossover just doesnt do it for me. I would rather buy a stock marine band, and customize it myself. ---------- Brandon Bailey
Just been looking at the Manji videos again and noticed something interesting.
Although the Manji has it's coverplate screw fixing holes offset towards the front of the harp, the comb and reedplates have also been drilled with extra holes for a standard central fixing setup. Also it looks as though all the other reedplate fixing holes are in the same positions as the previous reedplates, except for one extra hole between reeds 5 and 6 at the back of the harp.
It's my guess that although the reedplate is a new design, they still intend to use their existing machinery and jigs for manufacturing. This would make sense as it keeps costs down.
The upside of this for us MAY be that we will be able to mix and match with existing Suzuki harps.
Eg. How would you like to fit Manji reedplates to your Firebreath or your ProMaster? Or How would you like to fit the Manji comb to your Bushman Delta Frost (not that you'd probably want to) Could be some interesting developments coming our way in the near future.
That thing about the screws at the front, watching the vid, you'd think it was revolutionary. MBs have them at the front and the back.
Does anyone know whether they've altered the front of the MB's cover plates to help avoid 1 draw reed rattle? It looks like it in the catalogue, but it's really hard to tell from the picture. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Magnify the picture on page 2. It looks as though they've altered the front a bit - to save me typing or pasting see my post above to Buddha. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
I've got a G on order. Should be here in a week or two. Needless to say, I'll report my findings on here. I feel like a little boy again, waiting for xmas. Boys and their toys! ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
"I'll tell you right now, the harps out of the box are not as good as the ones Brendan demonstrated. They are good but his were put together by hand."
Sorry Chris but (as we say in the UK), that's bollocks! The harp I used to demonstrate various aspects in the main part of the Suzuki videos was totally stock out of the box. The opening licks of Part 1 and the closing passage of Part 2 were played on the exact same harp, which I retuned to one of my own tunings. Retuning only: no embossing, reed curving or any other work at all. I didn't have time to even half-valve it as I normally would. I made a note to this effect on the video.
Chris also wrote:
"The tolerances on the Manji aren't as tight as one would expect and appear to be about the same as the firebreath."
"Appear to be.." is rather vague! Have you actually measured them? The reeds on the Manji are totally different to the Firebreath: longer and narrower. And Suzuki claim that the Manji has the most accurate reed fixing and closest reed/slot tolerances of any harp ever made.
Suzuki wouldn't make this striking claim unless it was verifiable. They never made this claim for the Firebreath. I suggest you come up with some carefully measured and calculated tolerance figures if you want to quesion the Suzuki claim with any credibility.
One more thing that may not be widely known: Suzuki harmonica reed slots are double-engineered. Like the other major manufacturers, Suzuki stamps out their reed slots. Unfortunately, the stamping process leaves slots that have sides which are not perfectly vertical. They come out with a crossection that is like the bottom part of a pyramid (looked at from the front of te harp), as well as other tiny imperfections due to the force of the stamping operation.
Unlike other manufacturers, Suzuki adds an extra process by subsequently grinding the reed slots so that they are abolutely parrallel and vertical. This, in alliance with the accuracy of reed fixing allowed by their unique spot welding process, is what has enabled them to close up the reed/slot tolerances to unprecedented levels of fineness in the Manji.
Hey Brendan, if you come back can you tell me whether the Manji reedplates will be interchangable with the other reedplates across the brand. E.g. ProMaster, BluesMaster etc? Be good if they were. It was good of you to visit this forum, you have a lot of admirers of your work here. ----------
I didn't mean to interject erroneuous data, I should have asked you directly, however when I questioned if they inital manji I played was the same as yours they said "No". My apologies.
I haven't measured anything other than with my own eyes. The Manji is a GREAT out of the box harp and the firebreath is very good - sorry to use vague comparisons but that's all i can come up with for now. Its not that I question the claim Brendan, as there is a visual difference, however the difference isn't what I thought it would be and nowhere near what many customizers do with their harp.
In about 20 minutes I turned the Manji into something that rivals low-end custom harps but I can do the same thing with the firebreath. I can't do that with any honher. I love the sound of the Maji compared to the firebreath, perhaps due to the closer tolerences? It's has a criper feel to it. I haven't taken any further steps to make it better, mostly because because I don't feel the need to as it's totally fine with the minor adjustments I made.
I didn't mention the reeds, I know they are different than the firebreath. I wouldn't use a firebreath for what I do. The Manji performs much better than the firebreath but as I demonstrated to Brendan, it doesn't really work for what I do either. However I could easily adjust my playing style to make it work something that would be harder with the firebreath due to the reed profiles.
From what was described, the way the slots are created is indeed revolutionary and they do make a difference.
The manji is easily the best out of the box harp and there is no comparison to the hohner crossover. The Firebreath/pureharp is also a very good out of the box harp that I think is miles ahead of any hohner.
Last Edited by on Aug 24, 2009 8:25 AM
well, after all that info, it seems silly not to try a manji now. $40 (online I presume), versus $36.95 for the marine band locally. What's one more harp anyway, in the big scheme of things?
hmmm now im kinda tempted to try one. but im so dedicated to marine band. if its only gonna be $40 ill get one. how come a $40 harp plays better then a $100 harp from the same company?
I think that Suzuki harps , are the best harps for the buck , I used to play them but I don't anymore ,but if anybody asks for what harp to buy I will always recommend them ( and Jason Ricci says the same thing in one of his lessons) , you always know what you get unlike the hohner harps that 30% of them are plain crap out of the box . Now on the Manji subject , and this things are for Mr.Power , obviously this harp is intended to hit hohner Marine's band fans , and I personally think it's gonna do it ( of course there will always be the purists that like their comb to swallow , or they like to do it like real men used too), the Manji got the long slot reeds , great slot tolerance , fixed the comb issue , great covers , but one of the most important aspect that get people to play marine bands is also the tuning ( 90% of diatonic harp players play blues). What I think would be great is to have suzuki offer this harp in a compromise tuning , even if they would do it for an extra charge $5 or $10.A $45 dollar JI Manji harp I think would be incredible .
Everything I wrote above it's about the normal people that play stock harps and don't feel like doing any work on them, and don't care for overblows either.
Now , on the overblow aspect of this harp , all the suzuki harps that I own have one characteristic , if you draw a chord lightly (it's easier to notice it if you use a chord) you can hear the reeds vibrating long after you stop drawing ,and this I think it's not something that will help with the overblows .My theory is that is the result of the spot welding of the reeds , not that is something wrong but the fact that it's too perfect , the hohner imperfect riveting makes for a reed that is stiffer somehow ,that dampens much sooner ,and I think this helps to get into and out of the overblow , and not squealing when sustained. Almost like the effect that people that wax or nailpolish the rivets are after.Everything is just of theory. Any thoughts on this Buddha ?
Last Edited by on Aug 24, 2009 10:57 AM
Most of my harpmasters will overblow holes 4,5 and 6 out of the box. If anything, they choke easier to me...too easily if I get riled up while I'm playing them. I am working very hard to use less air now, since i feel this is me being new, but I can overblow my suzukis as well as my hohners. They are definitely precise.
Sorin, did you say the manji will have the same tuning as marine bands & specials 20s as opposed to the golden melody/suzukis/seydels/etc type tuning? Or were you saying that you hope they do that? Sorry...
---------- ~Ryan Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Last Edited by on Aug 24, 2009 9:58 AM
Ryan ,almost all the suzuki harps( except the ridiculous priced Fabulous) are ET like Golden Melody , I assume Manji will be the same,so I am just hoping that they will consider a JI version.
The Manji certainly seems to be the MOST "buzzed about" new harmonica that has come out during my time as harp player. Why is that? Certainly one could point to all those innovations that Brendan Powers so eloquently points out. But more than that, I think it is the fact that Suzuki took all those innovative new ideas and manufacturing processes, and put them into a harp that is AFFORDABLE! Much like the several years before Obama got elected, we have been clamoring for change. Every harp forum/e-mail list I've been a part of has uncountable threads where folks are justifiably bitching about prices and price/quality ratios of the harmonicas produced by the major manufacture. It has seemed to us that these companies weren't listening to us. In fact, in the case of some companies, it seemed like they were doing just the opposite of what we have been asking for: make a better quality harp for a reasonable price. Well, with the Manji, it seems like Suzuki has actually taken that step up and made the product that the people actually want. Time will tell, of course, but if the Manji is even half as good as we've all been hearing it is, then it will certainly be remembered as being as revolutionary as the original introduction of the Marine Band by hohner more than a hundred years ago. I'm definitely saving my bucks to buy one when they are available... ---------- -------------- The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Chris, yeah that would be cool. I'll give you a call well in advance so the dogs don;t attack me as I jump over your back fence! And I will be very scareful not to eat any tainted sushi before hand as well. Would you have time on thursday? That's my "free" day...
"Much like the several years before Obama got elected, we have been clamoring for change."
Quite frankly, I'd rather see this political bullshit void from this forum. It hasn't a thing to do with Harp and the fact is that no matter what an individuals view is, this isn't the place!
you know, if you two hadnt said anything about it, i doubt anyone would have really noticed or cared.. it was a metaphor.. we still have freedoms in this country.. at least for now we do...
moving on...
so, when is this thing due to hit the market?
Last Edited by on Aug 24, 2009 4:50 PM
