I thought that it would be helpful to players like myself to hear how some of the more proficient harp players in the Forum have reached the level they are at today. All of us have the desire to improve, but due to the lack of properly structured practices we do not grow in many of the more important aspects of our playing, particularly technique.
I trained fighters for many years (now retired from this) and had always conducted training sessions that would center around improving the conditioning, coordination, technique, speed and mobility of each individual. In the gym, sessions almost always started out with floor work, rope skipping, mobility drills, reflex drills, shadow boxing, bag work, defense training and sparring. Is there a similar approach for harp practices?
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2009 7:25 AM
Good topic Harpist. Structure is important for those of us who have come into it relatively recently. I know I've spent hours, probably days thinking I'm polishing my technique but find it leads me nowhere. It can be disheartening.
There are some good practice tips here but no structure.
my journey is fairly well documented in most of my posts. My personality, like it or not is the reason I have achieved proficiency....Attitude, confidence, intensity, open-mindedness, curiosity, dedication, the ability to follow ones own path,experimentation etc are all more important than learning notes technique.
Find truth within yourself, recognize your place in the universe and your artistry with glow like the sun. This is true for all things, not just music and not just harmonica.
"Attitude, confidence, intensity, open-mindedness, curiosity, dedication, the ability to follow ones own path,experimentation etc" is all very well so long as it is channeled in the right direction. I think we know what we want, what do we need to do ensure a smooth progression? ----------
Although I'm not quite as proficient a player as I think you're aiming the question at, I still have a take on it. It's sometrhing I've been thinking about quite a lot recently.
I know I'm not a tenth of the player that Chris is, nevertheless I don't share his view entirely. In my humble opinion, his second paragraph wouldn't have been of much use to any of my former piano students. Perhaps it is more suited to someone who's studying at Juliard or the Paris Conservatoire.
My guess is that many of us don't follow some kind of foundational course from start to end. Years ago, I had a quite good little book called Instant Harmonica. I think I may have taken the 'instant' part a little too literally, and I didn't stay the course. I suppose I didn't realise how long it can take to get the kind of tone that came on the accompanying tape.
So, I'm gonna get that book again or maybe Steve Baker's and stick with it to the bitter end. Adam, Chris, Jason, Ronnie Shellist and others have given us invaluable material to supplement the tedium of such a book, and fill in many of the gaps that such a text inevitably has.
I'm not so much questioning what Chris said; I just don't think it's of that much use when you're at the level that many of us are. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
I recently went back to the beginning of the gussow youtube lessons. I don't have them all for bandwidth limitation reasons, but the ones i selected have been very useful. I added a few a day since last week. Like i started to say, I went back to square one. I wanted to see what I WAS doing and may have stopped in pursuit of other things...overblows, for example...and it is surprising what you may move past and forget to use that's really dirt simple now. Going back and doing old things perfectly with new skill is something I find helpful for muscle memory and repertoire, not to mention humility and simplicity. Less can often be more with an instrument voiced in the same basic register as your lead guitar player. Structure? Scales every day. Familiar riffs and licks every day, tone and vibrato (hand in hand) every day. Overblows everyday. Overblow and other new lick exploration every day. Songs you need to memorize and examples of solos you can use in them...every day. FUN...every day. The stuff I just listed can gobble up hours. It does for me.
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2009 9:41 AM
"I'm not so much questioning what Chris said; I just don't think it's of that much use when you're at the level that many of us are."
I wasn't born able to play at a high level. I believe music is generally taught backwards. Music is a language. Think about how you learned to speak your native language. By the time you were 2 you were able to improvise within your language. Did you know about verbs, adverbs, nouns, pronoun etc? I doubt. Many people never learn that stuff and yet can improvise.
I've given you all the "secret" in this thread and the artistry thread to becoming great at anything and all I see are people wanting to stick to methods that keep you in a box of mediocrity.
Everything you need to know is within you now. All you have to do is create the channels to get it out in a meaningful and productive way.
When playing music, understanding sound and how to resonate it in your body is the first step. Good tone can be mastered in less than 5 minutes. YOU are the creator and producer of music, the harmonica is just a tool. Like a wrench some use it as a hammer and others know how to use it properly. Do you use the harmonica properly? You already know how to pay attention to detail right? You can determine the difference between tones, rhythms, groove and dynamics right? What else do you need?
Take your mind away from the harmonica for a moment. Think about how an impressionist works. Many of you can do this now. How many impressions can you do? How many other little voices do you have when you speak to children, spouses etc? Watch Frank Caliendo... listen to him and what he says about doing impersonations. Watch how he literally becomes the person he impersonates. Everything is energy, all things have an energy signature, we all have the ability to tap into and absorb this energy. If you can absorb it, you can become it.
Now that you've watched the video, think about what you have to do to apply the same techniques to music. Its been pointed out to me when I do my Howard Levy impression that I tilt my head from side to side like he does, the index finger on my right hand doesn't touch the harp etc...
These are simple things that you all already know how to do. No book is going to teach you this stuff. If you ever meet a player like Victor Wooten you will find that he has nearly the same approach as me. I met Michael Brecker about five years ago and we talked about our approaches to music, again, they were nearly the same. The point is not that I am on the same level as they (I'm not) but the approach is the same.
When I play blues, it's authentic. I have an image in my head of what a "real" blues player is and how it sounds all I do it do my best to reproduce the sounds.
When I play ethnic music, I pretend I am a person from that region.
Become the music, the more you resist, the worse you will sound.
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2009 10:03 AM
What I like about the MBH Forum is the tremendous opportunity it presents to Harp players of all levels to share their knowledge and experience with one another. While tips from the great ones are invaluable and are eagerly welcomed, everyone in the Forum is equally welcome to offer their ideas. I hope that MBH members, at any level, reading this thread do not hold back from sharing their own 'ideas for structured harp workouts' - every contribution has a value.
I often find it a bit strange that you seem to find it hard to accept that some people have different opinions to your own.
I don't really need a lesson in musicianship - though, I thank you for taking the time to make those comments. I've been involved in music for many years: smart arse piano player as a kid; taught it for a while; taught music in school for a while (aarrgghh!!); took a degree in music.
Still, just because I've not applied myself as I would've liked and, subsequently, don't have a pro's technique doesn't prohibit me from having formed views that differ from yours.
We could sit here all evening typing and we'd prabably still feel the same way. I can't say I remember you ever acquiescing on here.
I don't think we'll agree on this, but that's cool. I've grown a bit tired of the protracted debates on here. Harpist asked for peoples' views, and now he has some. He can consider more than one view, surely?
Mick ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
I practice naked on the lawn, legs crossed, eyes closed, as a means to shed all the materialistic garbage around me and be able to channel the karma of the Earth through my butt and out my harp. I become the blade of grass. Just the Earth, my butt and my harp....and hopefully no fire ants (ref elkriver thread).
Not really. I know, only funny to me.....
Anyway here's some suggestions I found while checking out some of the articles on Mel Bay Harmonica Session. I roughly follow the suggestions in the first article.
I can't claim to do any of the above consistently. I do run through all of Adams lessons I've purchased as well as his youtube stuff as it relates to target areas of practice (scales, syncopation, comping, etc..).
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2009 11:24 AM
I didn't conrive that equation, Buddha, you did; it's not exactly an axiom.
I could contrive one of my own and spend all night arguing the ins-and-outs with you. But, I do have other things I'd prefer to do.
Like I said, Harpist asked for some views, and he's got them. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
of course it's not an axiom it's just a bit of jesting.
There are many many ways to achieve what you want. I'm almost always going to offer a different view than what is considered conventional.
I could say practice notes, scales and listen to other harmonica players, while that will get you where you want to be in time it's not the way I choose to teach.
All I want is for others to be the best they can be and sometimes that requires a different point of view. If I were to accept everything that is generally spouted about in books then my presence here is useless.
In general, I push people and their ideas to their limits as that is where you will find out what they are made of. I am constantly at my limits, the new size of pants every month indicate this as well. :-p
My approach to everything is to get it right before you move forward. Like they way a tree grows, a tree with shallow roots and a weak core will be smashed when the might wind blows. I'm always adding new branches and growing new leaves, my foundation supports the growth.
I've not preached musicianship like you stated, I haven't mentioned scales or notes or even practicing. All I have been saying is to work on your foundation. I've watched your videos and honestly, you're a very good player and very articulate as well BUT you're nervous and lack confidence in your presentation. That little bit of instability will shine through in your music and no matter how much you practice scales, notes and licks, runs etc... its always going to be there when you share your music with us. This is why I say music is taught backwards and otherwise incorrectly.
I think you and many others have very valuable advice, it doesnt' mean I'm going to follow it or preach it but you can be assured that if it's not a part of who I am already, it will get added to my arsenal of how I do thinks.
I don't expect people to dig to the depths of arcane knowledge that I have but that doesn't means it's not good for you to be aware of the matter.
Being good at anything is not easy. I have put a lot of time into my craft. I have spent countless hours working on the finest details and I'm not yet close to being finished with my work. However the one thing I have discovered in all of this work is being true to who you really are matters the most. Living in the moment and making whatever you are doing that very moment, your complete and only focus will get you along alot father and faster than anything else. Self discovery will bind the lessons to your being deeper and stronger than any book or teacher can.
Understand that when I started, there were no teachers, there were no books, the tracks I learned from were not in tune with my harmonicas. It wasn't easy. When it comes to the harmonica, I'm a warrior for all of us regardless of what style of music we play. Because of the lack of respect this gem of an instrument gets, we are forced to be "better" than the other instrumentalist. In order for me to be "better" than the next guy, I researched the origins of music and musical instruments. I demonstrated some of that in the Artistry thread.
I'm not ready to admit all of the things I put myself through to be able to play the way I do. It's not necessary for you to go to those extremes, instead I am sharing with you the results I discovered and learned as I continue to fight for our instrument. Going to war for the harmonica has not be easy and I could use your help which is why I push all of you to be better harp players and musicians. I want you to be better than me. I want you to be the best. I wouldn't be here for any other reason especially now when I need to get harp out to germanharpist, snakes and several others... soon guys. Soon.
i consider myself to be a world-class portrait artist...if i were to pick one thing i do that far outweighs the efforts of most anyone ive met, thats it, and aside from soaking in all the folks who i admired, i just did it. it just comes out, i cant explain it, which is why i think you can do it or you just cant...regardless of how you meditate before during or after.
how it relates? some of us can speak eloquently, having never made it out of junior high, others go to college for years and still say. "i could care less"...(ITS COULDNT!!!, couldnt care less.) you get the idea.
absolutely different views, thats what you will expect here.. each of us have our own way of working out the small stuff. my rank amateur advice? for whatever its worth? keep loving the music, and let it consume you, keep playing and you'll get it right enough to satisfy YOU...I am Hovewver, also interested in learning more about scales and of the like... ill look up a few vids and put some links up.
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2009 12:52 PM
I like a structured approach to learning for the most part. I love to read and follow books but I have yet to follow a book to learn the harmonica. It is funny because I can overblow and bend (still working on hitting them perfectly) which if you read threads are intermidiate and advanced tecniques but I am still an advanced beginner. I have just done a little tongue blocking and little work on octaves and double stops.
So I am all over the place. If you ask me to play a song, I hardly know any songs ( I can play amazing grace using bends on 1 3 and 4) I do alot of reading on the internet and understand what is needed to perfect this instrument. I work on alot of tecnique for the most part with my limited time. I told my wife that I am getting better and one day all the practice that I have putting in on technique will all fit together and it will make playing songs so much easier.
That is my method so far but it is not for all. I am very patient and not in a rush to be able to play full songs. I get enjoyment playing over and over all the 3 draw bends to 2 draw bend 3 or 4 note riffs( if you can call it a riff ) and experimenting with the 6 hole draw bend and 7 hole draw wailing note to try and get a great tone from it. So I do experiment alot as well. That is actually how I learned to overblow 1 2 4 5 6. I had no clue but kept doing all sorts of noises in my throat like I was choking until I finally got a overblow. Now I can do them with little pressure. Does it help me play a song now? No but it is satisfying and I know I will use it in time.
To sum up this long post. I believe as many posted already, use the method or a combination of methods that fit you. That is why there are hundreds of books out there and everyone likes something different.
My 2 cents 528hemi
Last Edited by on Sep 06, 2009 8:13 AM
I think playing with other people can really push you along faster too. If you can't find any harp players, get a guitar player and jam (try to find a good one....there are a lot of them around). Just putting your chops into someone else's groove will show you things you may not have considered, especially if you don't already sing or play something in a band.
Thank you for taking the time to write that honest and eloquent response.
Forgive my delayed reply. It's not the ignorance of impoliteness. Rather, I really do try to avoid those protracted exchanges we sometimes have on here: they just take up so much time, especially typing on a titchy-tiny netbook, whereupon my ability to touch type is virtually negated. I just can't get used to that teeny-weeny keyboard!
I appreciate and understand what you're saying, and, like most people on here, I have the greatest respect for your musicianship, and appreciation for the advice that you offer on here and in your videos.
I'm not much of a one to care for money, but, if I were, what you said about my playing would be very much more welcome than an extremely large cheque. I mean that.
It doesn't sit right with me to have ignored what you said, so, if I can find your e-mail, which I think I have somewhere, I'll paste this and send it.
Mick ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Harpist, even as a rank amateur compared to others on this forum I have had the opportunity to have a number of guitar lessons from a very talented fingerstyle guitar player. http://www.shawntrotter.com/Shawn/home.html
He gave me an excellent practice regime that I still use today whether on the harp or the guitar.
One hour session - Quiet room - no interruptions - no electronics - one personal recording device to tape the whole session for playback another time.
First 15 minutes Warm up and scales - known chord prgressions
Next 15 minutes - Work on something new - Ear training, nw song, different scale, progressions etc.
Next 15 minutes, Play stuff you know thoroughly but need to trim, clean up or improve emotion, phrasing or attack.
Last 15 minutes - have fun with whatever songs you have mastered.
At the end of an hour - Go do something else.
Now, he had a different regime for writing, vocal practice, music business planning etc. but that's a whole other topic
For guitar he was firm on correct posture and using the sitting mode. I fail miserably on that but hey.... At least I know that now.
For vocals - He said that beginners should stand because it helps to establish the correct diaphragm action but once that was in place sitting or standing didn't matter as long as you can hit the notes clear and clean.
Hope this helps.
mickil - Do some homework - Sailboats are awesome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailboat
For the history of global exploration - This was the vessel of choice much like we use the Harp for exploration of music....and both are wind powered!
Nothing like a crystal clear night with a good breeze and plenty of it and the stars guiding your way and the only other noise is the hull slicing though the water.
