walterharp
43 posts
Sep 06, 2009
12:37 PM
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Hello all,
A related thread had some ideas about improv... so related question, who is or were the best improvisational musicians?
I start the list with Miles, and Jerry Garcia.
As far as taking it farthest with complete improv, music and lyrics, Walter Tore is pushing that envelope.
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Christelle Berthon
75 posts
Sep 06, 2009
1:07 PM
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Charlie Parker, Coltrane, Ella Fitzgerald, Herbie Hancock, Ry Cooder, Coleman Hawkins, Jason, and so on....the list is too long
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Blackbird
105 posts
Sep 06, 2009
7:19 PM
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Frank Zappa
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jonsparrow
963 posts
Sep 06, 2009
8:38 PM
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i didnt know zappa does improv.
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Blackbird
106 posts
Sep 06, 2009
9:04 PM
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Check out his live music, Jon - it goes on through the whole show, in his guitar solos or songs.
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jonsparrow
966 posts
Sep 06, 2009
10:14 PM
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im gonna have to check it out. i have a few of his albums but never listened to live stuff.
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harmonicanick
367 posts
Sep 07, 2009
12:55 AM
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jon,
Check out 'You can't do that on stage anymore' Vols. 1-6 by Zappa
It is an incredible set of live recordings spanning his whole career and demonstrates how right Blackbird is.
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Blackbird
107 posts
Sep 07, 2009
3:53 PM
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Zappa never got a lot of attention for his musical ability by the mainstream, they were all up in arms about how he was pissing people off with the topics in his songs. He was an underrated guitar player and composer but he knew all the rules, and then broke them to get people to explore outside the box. Many of his live songs turned into improv jams, or merely with the musicians involved, were inspired to improv to keep the songs unpredictable. Zappa has a lot of redundancy of songs in his live recordings - asside from the "can't do that onstage" series that Nick references, you'll see other collections of live music and you think "how many times can I hear 'Truck Driver Divorce'?" as an example, and when you hear the variations in each performance, you'll know why he put them there. The casual listeners, or those only familiar with studio albums don't hear it, but check some of his live recordings or a few Youtube videos and he got away with some amazing music that came out of nowhere at times.
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walterharp
46 posts
Sep 07, 2009
7:02 PM
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interesting idea of zappa as an improviser, rumor has it he booted Lowell George, one of the best improv/ singer/ song writers, because he was not tight enough to be in his band. Of course having a tight band and being a great improviser are not mutually exclusive.
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Blackbird
108 posts
Sep 08, 2009
12:44 PM
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Zappa was a double edged sword - as you note, his musicians had to be tight - and he was a relentless perfectionist in ensuring that. He had high expectations, and demanded nothing but perfection from his musicians, for sure. That was often in the recording/rehearsal stages. During live shows, he lets it out a lot more - sure, there's recordings where you can hear him stop the song suddenly and ask Terry or Steve what they were doing/thinking, and they start again, but when it got to the songs or opportunities to just jam, he loosened up - as well as lyrically, the musicians or Frank would sometimes throw curveballs to crack the band up or the crowd. So while he wasn't a constant improviser, when he did, he usually made some memorable passages.
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ChrisA
69 posts
Sep 08, 2009
4:45 PM
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"I also loved the xylophone player."
Her name is Ruth Underwood, she was married to the sax player and keyboard Ian Underwood of the original Mothers. If you can get hold of the dvd Apostrophe(') / Over-Nite Sensation you will have a hint at how Frank proceeded with his bands. I also saw him twice in the early seventies in Montreal. For his more formal contemporary music side, check the Yellow Shark album.
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snakes
346 posts
Sep 09, 2009
12:24 PM
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I love that album One Size Fits All (I think it was called). I love the line from one of the songs where Frank said, "Bobby I'm sorry you got a head like a potato." The album had a flying couch on the cover.
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Fredrider51
84 posts
Sep 09, 2009
1:13 PM
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Susy cream cheese what has gotten into you Suzy cream cheese zappa was something else saw him in phila 2 times in 68
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