MrVerylongusername
506 posts
Sep 11, 2009
6:15 AM
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I was listening to the Harpfriends contest entries and noted a few entrants had used reverb. I thought it might be a good idea to discuss the pros and cons of delay and reverb. Most players seem to go for one or the other. Who's in the reverb camp and who's a delay person? can you expalain your preference?
I myself prefer just a touch of reverb - I never found a sound I liked with delay. Also, as the singer/frontman, I can't really fiddle with settings between numbers, I prefer to setup one overall sound and stick with it. Delays - ideally - need setting to the tempo of the material. A reverb is more about the acoustic space you're in (if its needed at all) and once it's set you can leave it. I use an EH Holy Grail which has a very nice Spring reverb sound, but you really do need the tiniest pinch, crank the dial past 9 O'clock and it sounds horrible!
Reverb is good for thickening your sound, but it's like salt. A little enhances the flavour, too much kills it. If you're playing with other musicians, the more reverb you add, the further back in the mix you'll sound, and the more muddy your tone.
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Kingley
355 posts
Sep 11, 2009
6:47 AM
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This is a great question.
I never really liked the sound of delay until I bought the Boss DM-2.
All the delays before that sounded really cold and very harsh. The worst delay I have ever tried being the Boss DD3 (sorry Adam!).
Likewise I was never happy with reverb really, as I find in general most units are to fiddly to really get the sweet spot. Although I'm told the Boss RV-5 is a good one.
I personally find the delay on the DM-2 is easy to set and get a great sound with. It'll thicken the sound and also warms it up as well (to my ear anyway).
The muddiness and distance sound can also easily be gotten with delay. Far more easily and more pleasingly than with reverb in my experience.
If my delay went down at a gig I would play dry rather than using reverb.
It's better to use an analog delay unit to get the best sound for harp. Most digital delays are just not as good for harp.
The Lone Wolf delay is digital but attempts to simulates an analog pedal, as does the Belcat DLY303.
If I didn't have a DM-2 I'd but a BBE Two Timer.
If I had to buy a digital then I'd buy the Belcat (which I own as a back up)
I have yet to find a reverb pedal that I like enough to buy.
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XHarp
157 posts
Sep 11, 2009
6:55 AM
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Agreed. I too am a reverb fan but I use the spring reverb that is in the Fender DRRI. Although the DRRI it is not a great harp amp it serves a dual purpose for me with guitar and harp and I think that the Fender Reverb is one of the finest ever so it all fits my needs. Because I use it for dual purpose, I dial a little more reverb then other players to get close to the tone I want.
--------------------------------
Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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kudzurunner
681 posts
Sep 11, 2009
7:16 AM
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No apologies needed for your inability to get a great sound out of the DD-3. My sound speaks for itself, I trust. It's smooth and unobtrusive. But I've been using this sort of Boss pedal for 24 years, and I've figured out a setting that works for me; I know how to tweak it in different contexts and on different songs.
Verylong is right, to some extent. Different types of material require different lengths of delay.
One of the most crucial variables is how much else is going on onstage. How busy is the mix? In some case, when you're playing in a loud rock context, ANY sort of reverb or delay can result in a mushy sound that doesn't punch through.
It's a sorcerer's art.
I used to use a delay on one amp and a Kendrick reverb on the other. I'm a big of a gearhead. I also tried one amp clean and the other with delay. Eventually I settled on just the one pedal driving both amps. It's a more integral sound.
But that Kendrick tube reverb was sweet. If you listen to "Sanctified Blues" of LIVING ON THE RIVER, I turn the Kendrick tank all the way up at one point so the sound fades into the mists.
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kudzurunner
682 posts
Sep 11, 2009
7:19 AM
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I used a Premiere reverb tank at one point. This is THE unit to get, friends. It has a small tube preamp inside the reverb tank, which means you can turbocharge ANY amp, including a solid state amp, with a real tube overdrive sound.
http://www.harpamps.com/premier/reverb.html
I tried this tank with a Mouse. Holy shit. It was like a top-fuel dragster; like a DHOC with the nitrous full on.
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Kingley
356 posts
Sep 11, 2009
7:38 AM
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I used the DD3 for nearly six years in total and could always get a useable sound out of it. But never one I was truly happy with.
It has to me a cold brittle edge to the sound. Which I don't find pleasing.
That makes it infinitely inferior in the quality of the delay sound to my ear.
It's all just a matter of personal preference I suppose.
Myself I prefer a warmer more organic tone, so therefore I use an analog delay.
The Premier tanks are great and are of course tube driven and have a very warm tone. But it's also a pretty hefty piece of kit to carry around.
Out of interest Adam have you ever tried a Boss DM-2?
If so what were your opinions of it?
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2009 7:40 AM
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jonsparrow
993 posts
Sep 11, 2009
9:05 AM
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i like delay better cause it thickins up your sound. reverb makes it sound like a distant sound, which can also sound good for certain things.
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Bb
83 posts
Sep 11, 2009
9:33 AM
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Yep, delay for me. I use the BBE Two-Timer. I LOVE that I can set two different delay times (for me a simple slap-back and then a slightly draggier delay) and switch between the two or shut it off with my foot.
It sounds good to my ear. And it was pretty affordable.
-Bob
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2009 9:41 AM
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Cisco
11 posts
Sep 11, 2009
9:43 AM
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I use the Lone Wolf Delay pedal and prefer it over my Fender 63 Reverb tank for harp.
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walterharp
55 posts
Sep 11, 2009
10:24 AM
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If you are singing and playing harp through the same mic, and the PA then no doubt, reverb is what it must be.
Delay is a bit tricky because what sounds good on drawn out notes gives a real slap back on percussive chording.
I am not willing to shell out $350 or more for an analog delay, and have found the lone wolf to sound good, used with restraint. I also use their octave as a stomp pedal on solos to add a very slight distortion sound and it has a gain knob, so it pumps up the volume. I can set it where the soundman says is right for solo volume relative to background. That is a good feature if you are trying to minimize your messing around on stage and go back and forth from backup and solos on harp.
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sonvolt13
25 posts
Sep 11, 2009
11:14 AM
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I really like the Lone Wolf Harp delay. I set it up for a "slap back" sound. You can also get cool chorus like sounds out of it. I have one of the Premier reverb tanks Adam was talking about. They sound excellent but are somewhat fragile (mine is broken at the moment).
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jonsparrow
996 posts
Sep 11, 2009
4:19 PM
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i debating which delay i want to buy. i have a few but none that i realy like. i either want the lonewolf or the MXR carbon copy.
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mrdon46
11 posts
Sep 11, 2009
10:58 PM
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I don't have a lot of experience with different delay pedals, so not much basis for comparison, but I sure do like my Lone Wolf Delay--like some others here, I set it up for a slap back effect, which really fattens up the tone. I'm turning into a bit of a gearhead, recently found an old briefcase I turned into a pedal board so I could have all the pedals I've accumulated but rarely use available--Boss AD-3 acoustic instrument processor (reverb, chorus, hi and lo band tone shaping); Boss OC-2 (2 octaves down); Lone Wolf Harp Octave (1 octave up); Maxon AF-9 auto-wah; LW Harp Delay; BBE Sonic Stomp. I use the Harp Delay all the time; like walterharp I always keep the Harp Octave in the signal chain and hit it for solos with (usually) just a slight amount of effect and some boost (though for lower key harps, ie low F, cranking up the level of effect can sound great). The Harp Octave seems to be able to provide a good volume boost while cutting feedback, too. Getting back to the original question, now that I have my reverb pedal available I'm using it more, usually just a touch--more than that with harp just gets too muddy, and I think can also contribute to feedback-proneness. So if I had to go with one or the other, it'd be delay.
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Andrew
606 posts
Sep 12, 2009
2:30 AM
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REVERBBB!
REVERBB!
(not too much)
But I'm happy with acoustic at the moment, which is how you'll hear me when you finally hear me.
Last Edited by on Sep 12, 2009 2:35 AM
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gmacleod15
6 posts
Sep 12, 2009
6:25 AM
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I will offer my 2 cents, however I only have woodshed player experience. Whether you use delay, reverb, or something else depends on what tune you are playing and where and how you are playing. I play through a Fender Blues Junior that has spring reverb and I use a Boss DD-3 delay pedal (bought because Adam uses one) together with a Boss BD-2 Blues driver.
Generally, only a touch of reverb and delay gets me “my” sound. If I am forced to be play at a low volume that doesn’t get my amp into it’s “sweet spot” then I will use the BD-2 to get that over driven sound. After about a year with this rig I am still fine tuning but that is part of the fun.
Which brings up another question....do you place the delay after other pedals or before? I have tried it both ways but generally will have my delay first.
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congaron
121 posts
Sep 12, 2009
7:02 AM
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I use a digitech rp80. It is what i already had for my guitar. I found all the settings, no matter what you use, require less than what i was using for guitar. I have settled on 100-300 ms delay (depending on our material, sometimes i play dry...on bypass) with some bass boost and mid and treble cut of varying degrees to make my settings sound a little different than each other. I prefer a touch of delay myself, vs reverb.
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walterharp
58 posts
Sep 12, 2009
10:22 AM
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good point on depends what you play... for amplified harp into a cupped microphone the delay is what I prefer, but for acoustic through a vocal mic and the PA, a touch of reverb is better to my ears
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congaron
123 posts
Sep 12, 2009
10:34 AM
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At our last gig, something happened after sound check..maybe it was excitement of the lead guitar player and drummer. Anyway, I ended up playing almost the whole gig through my beta57 vocal mic, since I let the sound guy talk me out of micing my harp rig. It worked great. No true chicago dirt, but nobody seemed to care.
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Harpist
63 posts
Sep 12, 2009
11:14 AM
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My submission may have given listeners the impression that I was using reverb. However, that cavernous effect was produced by the great acoustics of an empty cement and masonry, basement file room.
When growing up I would often sit in the stairwell of the apartment building I lived in and play my harp. Back then I could not afford an amp, nevermind one with reverb or a microphone, but could somewhat duplicate the sound by playing in a stairwell, a basement and sometimes in a subway station.
I just love that natural 'reverb'.
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Andrew
609 posts
Sep 12, 2009
1:15 PM
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In case anyone is interested, in Harpist's situation, the amount of reverb you get is proportional to the square of the distance from the harp to the mic.
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bluedogg
11 posts
Sep 16, 2009
10:52 AM
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why one or the other? I use a slapback delay and also have a bitmo converted Valve Jr. for some warm spring reverb. not heavy on either
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dfwdlg
58 posts
Sep 16, 2009
11:22 AM
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I'm set up for both as well but haven't really played with them together at the same time that much. Seems to work best when reverb is after delay in the chain though.
For Lone Wolf delay users: do you get much loss of edge/crispness when the unit is on? I have an eq pedal in line and use it now to bring a little bite back in when I swicth in the delay.
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dfwdlg
59 posts
Sep 16, 2009
11:24 AM
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My next purchase will be the spell checker. Man, I hate it when I can't type "switch".
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Cisco
12 posts
Sep 16, 2009
11:39 AM
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I have no loss of any tone or edge using the Lone Wolf Delay.
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boris_plotnikov
1 post
Dec 22, 2009
12:52 PM
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dfwdlg
Yes, I have some high loss and Randy tell me that it's feature of Harp Delay to reduce feedback and recommed me to change harpdelay for harpdelay v2 if i dislike that feature. Anyway, although I dislike this high loss but live recordings sounds much better with Harpdelay and I decide not to change it yet.
Last Edited by on Dec 22, 2009 12:55 PM
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joshnat
21 posts
Dec 22, 2009
1:54 PM
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I've been using the Boss FRV-1, which models the '63 Tube Reverb unit. I really like it. It gets nice and wet, and it's really easy to use. I've also used Boss RV-5 and Digitech Digiverb, and both had settings beyond my ability to understand! I want to play with delay a bit more, though. Still, I like keeping it simple.
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