I am having trouble with this technique. When I hear the masters do it the bottom and the top note fluctuate every other note. Adam G said it is either a "side to side" motion or in and out. I do this technique in and out but all I get is a constant octave with an alternating chord sound. For instance if I play a 2-5 draw double stop tongue flutter, the 2-5 are going the entire time which doesn't seem right, or is it right? Please help me understand, how do I get the alternating 2-5 instead of constant, with the "in-out" tongue flutter technique? What is right/wrong and simply tips on how this is done. Thank you. Here is a video of what I am talking about:
When you do an octave, retract your tongue back into your mouth then forward to the 3,4 holes very fast. Sounds to me like your on the right track. Just keep practicing.
My mouth is open to include 2 3 4 5. I tongue block the 3 and 4 and flick tongue side to side with tongue in contact with the comb. This allows the 2 with a little bit of 3 and 5 with a little bit of 4 to sound. I may not be doing it right either but it sounds OK. This is where plastic combs are good. ----------
Ive been trying to improve my sound with this technique recently. I had a bit of a light bulb moment the other day when I switched from using the tongue muscle to slap the tongue on and off as quick as I could, to totally relaxing the tongue, resting it lightly on the comb and using a strong quick harsh throat vibrato to flick the tongue on and off. This allowed much greater speed and closer to the sound I was after. ( I'm thinking of the start of Whammer Jammer here ) Magic Dick states in the interview with Adam that it is an in and out motion, not side to side )
The side to side thing is a bitch, and I've given up on it for the moment.
I havent really answered your question re: alternating, but that sound may have something to do with the speed.
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I am still not clear on this technique, but perhaps the answer will reveal itself with patience and time. Thanks again!
Maybe an "overblow" thread could be included as well. "Sweetie, your not doin it right, let me show you how to overblow, you gotta choke this first before you swallow..." :p
Hi Michael! You ARE on the right track. It is a rapid dabbing of the tongue. And Tryharp is giving good advice about relaxing when you do it. I have written a piece here http://www.harpsurgery.com/?page_id=59
I was teaching this very technique to a student this afternoon while we tackled the start of Big Walter's Boogie http://www.harpsurgery.com/?p=87
Adam's interview with Magic Dick covers the subject too. definitely not a side-to-side thing http://www.harpsurgery.com/?p=29
You are using your tongue in an unnatural way, but once you get it it's a great technique. A lot of the classic Chicago bluesharpers use it behind the verse of a slow blues.
Finally making some headway. Ok, so after thinking about it for a while, I came the conclusion that the only way to get an alternating sound was to alternate both sides of the tongue, i.e. going side to side with the tongue. It took awhile to isolate the tongue and stop moving the jaw, but it makes a lot more sense now. Any critiques are welcome.
Sounding good. I know jonsparrow can do it real well. I should have persuaded the secret out of him with some whiskey or something, haha, joking bud.
It's probably like any other worthwhile technique with the harp. You work at it, and work at it, and work at it building up the muscles you really haven't used and one day you think flutter and bam!
---------- ~Ryan Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Sounds good. I first learned the flutter using the tongue side to side motion and can do it really fast. I'm working on the tongue in out motion which I find quite a bit harder to do. But I think the in out flutter, done right , sounds better. Doing the side motion, try resting the tip of your tongue above the holes, where the comb and the covers meet. Try that for a while and see if it sounds a little smoother. I think it sounds a little closer to the in out motion sound.
That is a great tip Ray. My tongue tip was more in the middle of the wooden prongs but doing it where you said makes it FEEL a lot smoother, which translates into a smoother sound. thanks
I think some players just have the right genes for this, and others don't. I have a student that has MS that has difficulty moving plenty of body parts, but I swear all the mobility is concentrated in his tongue!
Can't say I do this as proficiently as others, but I use the side-to-side with the UNDERSIDE of the tongue, which I think is close to what Ray described. Seems to be more "rubberey" that way, and thus easier to alternate block. Could just be the peculiarity of my anatomy, though.
The other method I use ( because I often play with a slant ), is to hard block two or three center holes with tongue, and then lip block utilizing a side-to-side hand shake.
Actually, it is the bottom of the tip of my tongue that I place on the harp above the holes, where the comb and cover meet. I should have described that a little more clearer.:)
When you get comfortable doing the side to side flutter with bottom tip of tongue above the holes on the comb..........post a short video for comparison, when you have the time. I would be interested in hearing the difference. However slight.
Hey Ray, here is something I recorded a little earlier from my own "private" kinda journal just to see if there IS any little changes. What you said earlier just sparked my mind to try moving my tongue and see where it made the movement most efficient. Not fully up to speed yet, but having the tip of the tongue above the holes slightly has increased the fluidity ever so slightly. I think the rest just comes with practicing and building up the stamina. Can you hear any difference? Not quit sure if it will be seen yet. I will post another in a week to see if there is a big noticeable difference too.
It sounds pretty close to your earlier examples. Maybe a little smoother. You should go with which ever is more comfortable for you. I'm sure with time and practice it will get easier.
Ray, is the main critique here that it is too slow to sound like a tongue flutter or that the timing of the alternating chord/note is wrong? Does it just need more speed, anything else? thanks
