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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Plagiarism
Plagiarism
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oda
133 posts
Sep 24, 2009
3:22 PM
Hi folks,

Plagiarism comes up a lot when I'm in school and writing papers. It got me to thinking.

See, I'm making an animated film and I'm getting one of my friends to record a guitar part for one of the scenes. The guitar part is based off this:



at about 2:46 this really haunting guitar riff starts up and it lasts only a few seconds. When I first heard this I knew it would be perfect for the scene if it was elongated and reworked... and I got with my friend and told him that.

So, my question is... am I plagiarizing? do I have to credit Skip James? or is this an "original score" since well it only uses the idea of that riff and doesn't copy it exactly.

what do you guys think?
jonsparrow
1078 posts
Sep 24, 2009
3:47 PM
you dont have to credit any one if your not making money off it.
Bb
86 posts
Sep 24, 2009
5:24 PM
Amateurs borrow.
Pros steal.
-Bob
nacoran
203 posts
Sep 24, 2009
6:06 PM
It gets complicated with music. I'd cite it, possibly as 'inspired by' if you don't think you are using that much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_%28music%29
scstrickland
254 posts
Sep 24, 2009
6:38 PM
"you dont have to credit any one if your not making money off it."

Try that one on an english teacher or a college professor.
jawbone
88 posts
Sep 24, 2009
8:22 PM
Randy Bachman once said "If you plagerize long enough, you become an inovator" (I think)
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
oldwailer
901 posts
Sep 24, 2009
8:49 PM
If you steal from one person, it's plagerism--if you steal from several people, it's research. . .
congaron
145 posts
Sep 24, 2009
9:54 PM
Elongated and reworked. Just make it your own. Change a few notes, syncopate it a little more and don't worry about it. You probably have some ideas of your own anyway..put them in there and go for it.
Elwood
145 posts
Sep 25, 2009
2:39 AM
Although any blues scholar would probably be quick to point out that plagiarism has never been much of a sticking point in the history of the music, it sounds like you've been trained in the Western academic paradigm of intellectual property. Fair 'nuff.

In the academic sense of plagiarism, I find this is a useful way of deciding whether or not it is appropriate to cite an idea:

Plagiarism is, obviously, when you deliberately take someone else's work and present it as your own. Here it's common decency to cite the original craftsman.

But it's perfectly acceptable to borrow someone's idea and build on it until the idea is as much yours as theirs. In this instance you're not really stealing, but it's courteous, as well as helpful, to use citations to inform the reader of which ideas are yours and which belong to someone else.

Of course, as Led Zeppelin among others have inadvertently shown, the culture of citation is not as rigorous in blues music as it is in academia (Willie Dixon certainly would have had something to say on this topic). At any rate you're not going to insert a caption saying James, S. 1936. "Devil Got My Woman" when the riff starts up. Needless to say, you'd look a fool.

Perhaps you can acknowledge James in naming the song (much more common practice in music), such as calling it "Devil Got Skip's Woman" -- or something along those lines. If you are drawing on his riff, that would be honest and respectful without being at all inappropriate or awkward.

Incidentally, anyone interested in the contentious issue of property and ownership in music: I heartily recommend this excellent Rolling Stone article by South African writer Rian Malan, about the long history of plagiarism and appropriation of the song we'd know as 'In The Jungle'.

A-wimba-weh, a-wimba-weh.....
Elwood
146 posts
Sep 25, 2009
2:41 AM
Whoops, just saw Nacaron's comment. He managed to say it in two lines, I managed to kind-of say it in 22 lines.


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