Hoolines
11 posts
Oct 29, 2009
12:31 PM
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Hi:
As I mentioned before I was planning to purchase a new harmonica as my first serious one and I ordered a BluesMaster but I received a HarpMaster instead. It must have been a mixed up in the store that I ordered but it really didn't matter. I wanted one in that series and despite that BluesMaster looked to be softer and better in the mouth but anyway I decided to keep the HarpMaster and maybe order a BluesMaster after a while. Anyway it is a very loud harp very responsive and despite the truth that it hurts my lip a little on the corners it's good. Another thing... is it normal that it sounds a little more metallic than many harps I heard?
Please reply and help me keep going with the "harp learning" and tell me more about this little good looking harp and your own experiences with it.
Thanks
Hoolines
Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2009 12:32 PM
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snakes
384 posts
Oct 29, 2009
12:37 PM
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Suzies can be a little more bright sounding. Give the bluesmaster or a manji a try. If you got coin to throw try a Fire Breath (they are my favorite). You made a good choice of brand in my book.
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tookatooka
707 posts
Oct 29, 2009
12:48 PM
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When you say it sounds metallic Hoolines, what exactly do you mean and what other harps are you comparing it with?
It may be because when you play it, the sound reflects back at you from your hands and you are very close to the sound source.
You will get an improved sound when you learn to hold it correctly with an almost airtight cup. It will sound more mellow then. Search on this forum for "holding the harp" there's lots been written about it here.
I'm pleased you got one OK. Welcome to the gang.
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tookatooka
708 posts
Oct 29, 2009
12:55 PM
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Here's a picture of my Delta Frost, almost Identical to the HarpMaster. Top pic is before I opened the back up for more sound. It is fitted with ProMaster Plates and bigger nuts and Bolts. It's my favourite harp.
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congaron
213 posts
Oct 29, 2009
1:08 PM
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I like my harpmasters..I have 5 I think. I have two promasters in Eb and low F. I don't plan on any more promasters, but a few bluesmasters may make there way into my case eventually. I just don't think the promaster is worth the extra, even thought it really has that "quality feel" some folks crave. I NEED a manji in A to compare with the one marine band I have in A. I am having trouble talking myself into it because I have a spare special 20 in A and no real "need" I can justify. I want it for comparison purposes and just can't justify the expense at the moment. I could get it in C, but same scenario..I already have a primary and a spare that sound fine. In D, hmmm...maybe in D. My spare really sucks in D. Then I would comparing a harpmaster to a manji..I may be able to talk myself into this...here come the white coat guys again.
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RyanMortos
418 posts
Oct 29, 2009
1:12 PM
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Hooliness, I would suggest as long as you stick with it over time develop a collection of various brands/makes & models. Try a bunch until you find something that is you. There's quite a variety of professional playing harmonicas &, I think, sure as snowflakes no two are the exact same. There are various pros & cons to each. It also seems to me as skill develops the specific make & model harmonica matters less.
I got a suzuki bluesmaster at one point & really thought that would have been optimal first harmonica. It sounds with Suzuki you get something that isnt less than average off of the shelf. All the notes should play fine & bends should come with practice. The first harp I got I still have to fight to get it to bend, lol.
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~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
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tookatooka
709 posts
Oct 29, 2009
1:14 PM
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@congaron@ glad you mentioned the white coat guys before I did.
If the Manji reviews are as poor as I've read so far, I'm going to go all HarpMaster. I can open the backs up and fit ProMaster plates. That makes one good harp with easily available replacement reedplates.
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Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2009 1:18 PM
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congaron
214 posts
Oct 29, 2009
1:51 PM
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I made some combos out of my promasters and harpmasters. That's why I'm thinking bluesmaster. Right now everything is back in it's original configuration, but swapping parts is dirt simple.
I really like my marine band in A. Yes, it took minimal reed tweaking to overblow holes 5 and 6..I am not good enough to use 4 yet. I opened the back and rounded off the corners, trimmed the swelled comb back a touch with an exacto knife and it plays fantastic. I prefer the sound of the long reeds for sure. Still, the harpmasters i have are fine playing instruments. I don't see any significant differences in playability moving up to the promaster, as much as i'd like to. I like the covers so will be getting some bluesmasters for that.
Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2009 1:52 PM
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Hoolines
12 posts
Oct 29, 2009
2:31 PM
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Thanks for all replies. Thanks a lot.
@snakes: As a matter of fact I ordered a BluesMaster but I got a harpmaster and I went for it. It seems the difference is not much.
@tookatooka: you are right. It's the sound I myself hear which is the echo from my own hand. The recorded sound was a different experience.
@RyanMortos: I will. In fact I will order a BluesMaster soon. Maybe next month but first of all I want to enjoy my HarpMaster (key of C) right now :)
@All: The harp hurts my inner side of the lip on the left side when I play 1,2. Is it normal or I'm doing something wrong? Will I get used to it or what? Does it mean all Harp players have a hurt inner lip on their left side?
Thanks
Hoolines
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tookatooka
710 posts
Oct 29, 2009
2:41 PM
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Lip Problem. Strange. Is there a sharp bit there? Have you got unusually large lipmass? Is the cover plate seated well down next to the reeedplate? Is there a small gap that catches your lip? Have you been overdoing it? Moustache? I don't get that problem at all Hoolines and I don't see why you should on the lower holes.
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RyanMortos
419 posts
Oct 29, 2009
3:02 PM
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I think there's a level of normal wear & tare as your learning. Just remember to relax & take it easy. Perhaps inspect ways of holding the harp at an angle or slowing down when you play that octave. Just some thoughts.
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~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
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Hoolines
13 posts
Oct 29, 2009
3:26 PM
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Probably you are both right. I am on the learning curve and I expected some problems but I wanted to be sure that I am overdoing it.
I use the pucker method and not tongue method cause many of the tutorials say that, especially the videos I got. I know the advantage the tongue method has but I prefer to master the easy way first. I am trying hard to control my breath to hit the notes. Bending the notes needs more struggle most of the time but I'm sure the harp will cooperate with me more very soon;)
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Ray
74 posts
Oct 29, 2009
3:31 PM
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Nice job on opening the back of your Delta Frost.
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tookatooka
711 posts
Oct 29, 2009
3:38 PM
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You're probably doing OK Hooliness. Don't run before you can walk. Best to learn a few easy tunes to start with so you can get used to the harp. All the bending and lip blocking will come in time.
Thanks Ray. If you search for Custom Delta Frost in the forum, I explain how I did it.
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Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2009 3:40 PM
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Aussiesucker
414 posts
Oct 29, 2009
5:09 PM
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Hoolines > you are certainly on the right track. The Harpmaster is a really good harp. I agree with congaron re the Promasters ie I have 2 an A & Bb, similarly I have the same keys and more ie a set of Bluesmasters and and 5 Harpmasters. The Promasters look nice but I find the harp I always reach for during the past 12 months has been the Harpmaster in A. Love it.
I hope to have a Manji in a week or so and it will be good to note any further improvement.
All new harp players who are really keen and practice for hours experience lip soreness. Drink plenty of water whilst practicing. Don't lick your lips ie instead lick the harp & make its surface/mouthpiece moist. Especially in dry windy weather it is easy to get chapped lips & licking them only makes them worse. Use a lip balm after you finish playing.
If you have facial hair some harps can cause problems ie Lee Oskars which are a really good harp do come in for some criticism from those with a moustache. Also Lee Oskars, for me, tend to be harder on the lips ie the stainless covers do not slide as easily as the Suzukis and LO's braille numbers are damned annoying.
Be aware that in your quest to be a better player the buying of different and more expensive harps will not make too much, if any, difference. All the great players in the past had little choice ie only the Marine Band. Today we are lucky to have a wide choice of excellent economically priced harps.
Tooka> love what you have done with your Harpmasters (Delta Frosts). My only concern is that I carry my most used harps in my pocket in Buckeye leather pouches and they don't offer the same protection as the boxes but take up less space.By opening up the cover plates the support is removed. I have easily squashed Marine Bands.
Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2009 5:20 PM
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ness
94 posts
Oct 29, 2009
5:31 PM
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Hoolines,
When I first dove into this I was having cramps in my cheeks and dry lips. Tried all kinds of stuff for my lips -- and it's still all around here somewhere -- but I haven't reached for it in a long time. Give it a rest if you're breaking the skin, and read some of the great stuff that's available about the harp.
John
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roberth5
4 posts
Oct 30, 2009
12:27 AM
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Hi,
I'm also a beginner, and found I had a bottom left lip problem as well.
I found the corner of the reed, where the recess is for the cover to fit into was sharp.
I took the cover plates off and gently rubbed the corner with some fine 800 grade wet and dry paper. Cleaned up and replaced the cover plates.
That fixed the problem for me.
Hasn't helped the harp playing, but at least I do not have a sore lip!
Rob
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roberth5
5 posts
Oct 30, 2009
12:40 AM
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That should say "the corner of the reed plates".
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jbone
179 posts
Oct 30, 2009
6:39 AM
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early on i would play way too much at one time, and also i'd push the harp into my lips too hard. this resulted in sore and cracked lips. ask yourself a question- how hard do you press when you kiss your significant other? not all that hard, and with finesse i would hope! this is how i address the harp. haven't had lip issues for years now.
of course there are harps with sharp edges and this can be addresses with fine grit sandpaper once the sharp spot is found.
i re-tried lee oskars a year or so ago. i got that deal, 5 harps and a case for $150. and i have to say, i am just not impressed with the LO's. they sound harsher and to me are harder to play. they also will grab a mustache hair between reed plate and cover plate, and of course this happens when i'm in the middle of a solo or something, and it is a huge distraction having a lip hair ripped out while playing live! i usually keep my 'stache trimmed down but sometimes i forget to use the clippers.
i may try a high end marine band this coming year, or get a custom MB. i had such terrible experiences with MB over many years that i have a real issue trusting them much these days. and an unsealed wood comb is something i won't tolerate any more. in fact i am going to get hold of some food grade silicone specifically to seal my MB 365 model's comb.
i have played Delta Frost for several years now and they seem to be a good harp. but recently i began trying out suzukis and i think they are among the best harps i've ever used. i got a bluesmaster and hated the covers, but Delts Frost covers fit right on so that's what i have, a bluesmaster with DF covers, and i like it fine. i had first gotten a Pure harp, all rosewood except the reed plates. awesome harp but the price tag will prevent me getting any more. i also go a Manji in key of A and i love it. i plan to get more after a while but my budget is shot for a while just now. i am also hearing/reading about some issues with certain keys and notes, i think maybe because suzuki is furiously producing manji's to cover a big demand for them. it's dangerous territory, a maker has to meet demand but at the same time keep the quality top notch.
my manji in A is the loudest and easiest playing harp i ever got out of a box brand new. it sounds out from top to bottom with ease and i mean it when i say this is a loud harp. the tight tolerance reeds and slots, and the long reeds themselves, plus the open cover plates, are responsible for this. the caveat i have for anyone who gets one, is to very carefully regulate breath force with a manji, first because you just don't need near as much air to work the harp but also, second, any reed in any harp can be blown out by using too much force. it is also such a superior harp, once you get one- granted that it's all together and working properly- you may become obsessed with getting a whole set. like i am now. HAW! but economics will prevent that any time soon. as i can afford i will get one here and there. unless i hit the lottery on a big scratchoff, or a real big power ball or whatever, i must keep my harp budget fairly small and humble. not a bad thing, these days i appreciate everything i have and use it all to its fullest extent.
to you who are fairly new to harp- when it gets difficult, try harder but at the same time relax. if you can look at playing harp as a long term avocation and just put in the time trying new things, apply what you find re learning materials, and stick with it, you will be ultimately very satisfied. and popular! but i know there were times i just was so frustrated, i wanted to chuck all my harps and take up a new, easier hobby. i never did, but i would put the dam things up in the closet for awhile. eventually my inner ear would hear them call to me and i'd get them out and try some more. i first put a harp to my lips in 1972. it took me YEARS to really begin to "get it", but i was a hard head and had next to no learning materials to work with. these days there is so much material for learning, a lot of it free like the stuff adam gussow has put on youtube, if you keep your head right and focus your efforts, you can be playing functionally in a few months, and playing well inside a year's time. i've seen this.
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tookatooka
712 posts
Oct 30, 2009
6:45 AM
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Good post jbone. Very informative. I'm sure Hoolines appreciates all this top notch advice he's getting. Wish it was available when I first started out.
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congaron
215 posts
Oct 30, 2009
7:13 AM
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I opened all my harmonicas except the promasters. The harp masters were probably the easiest.
I took a regular set of lineman's pliers and wrapped the tips in about three wraps of electrical tape. Then i just found the leverage point where a simple squeeze took the bend past 90 degrees. I did that for the entire length before continuing the bend to perfectly flat. Removal of the covers was helpful, but I did my marine band with them on the harmonica.
A gentle squeeze is enough with lineman's pliers, plenty of leverage.
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Hoolines
14 posts
Oct 30, 2009
7:19 AM
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@jbone: WOW. Thanks for the great informative post. I hurt my lip yesterday but I tried a little gentler today and it was fine. I was hoping to get to play single notes right away but it seems it takes time to get it right. Sometimes especially when I control my breath as the books say it sounds good but it need hard work but I must confess it is much more fun learning the little instrument that I thought.
@tookatooka: Yes. I am very happy that there are so many resources.
Thank you all guys.
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tookatooka
713 posts
Oct 30, 2009
7:41 AM
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Keep us up to date with how you're getting along Hoolines. There's always someone to help. You'll be uploading soundfiles and YouTube videos soon. Just you wait and see.
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ness
95 posts
Oct 30, 2009
8:10 AM
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Tooka: Hoping to clarify something: Isn't the Delta Frost essentially a Harpmaster? Same plates and comb but a little different covers? And, isn't the Bluesmaster and Harpmaster using the same reedplate, which is interchangeable with Promaster replacements?
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tookatooka
715 posts
Oct 30, 2009
8:54 AM
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Spot-on ness. The ProMaster reedplates are marginally narrower but the drilled hole positions are all identical. I've fit ProMaster plates into Deltas and BluesMasters with no problems at all. My favourite harp is the one above, the Delta with ProMaster plates and the outer covers opened up. It is sweet. I've also heard the Manji plates will fit too but haven't been able to get those yet to try.
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ness
97 posts
Oct 30, 2009
9:43 AM
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tooka -- thanks for the confirmation.
I really like what you did with the DF. I've always thought the DFs looked waaaay too closed up.
I haven't opened up my Manji yet, but the cover screws/holes are not centered front-to-back. So it may take some drilling to fit the Manji plates onto other Suzuki-based harps. I have no idea what the inside screw configuration is.
John
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barbequebob
13 posts
Oct 30, 2009
1:02 PM
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The more closed back of the Delta Frost actually is a big part of that harp's sound and what it does is basically mellow out the sound of harp that's tuned to ET tuning, making it sound less harsh when chords are played on them with a lot of breath force.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbqaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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barbequebob
14 posts
Oct 30, 2009
1:05 PM
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John, the cover plate screws are set up like the way you would get a custom harmonica from some of the very best customizers in the business like Joe Filisko because it actually gives a much tighter seal near the mouthpiece area, which is really important and having them in the center has never really been such a great idea. The screws are all Phillips head screws where you can use a Phillips #1 screwdriver. The cover plate screws are cap screws and the reed plates and comb are held together using 8 screws, all Phillips head screws.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbqaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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ness
98 posts
Oct 30, 2009
6:01 PM
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Hi Bob,
THanks for the info on the DF.
As for the Manji plates -- my only point was that you won't be able to drop Promaster platesin there without some work.
John
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