clarksdale
73 posts
Jan 08, 2013
3:01 AM
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It's been a long while since i've been by the forum and just thought i'd give a head's up to a great new do-hicky for fighting feedback from Lone Wolf called the Harp Shield.
(sorry if it's already been discussed)
Basically it's a super tricked out noise gate dialed in specifically for harp players. I've tried hundreds of dollars worth of other solutions and now finally something is out there besides the "blue box" that we all know of (which is also great, don't get me wrong) but at a price tag of some $250ish less than the KAFB+, this gets the job done very nicely.
I highly recommend this pedal for all of you out there. If you can only afford one pedal for your rig, this would be the one i'd go for. They are $125 i believe. Works great with my sm57 and my bullet mic.
If any of you are going to the IBC's this year i'll let you try mine out. Hope you all had a happy holidy! peace and love,
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$Daddy Rich$
"The Blues is Ok!"
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timeistight
1035 posts
Jan 08, 2013
10:06 AM
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Howdy, Richard. Welcome back!
Yeah, we've talked about the Harp Shield a bit here. I'm looking forward to trying one out.
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They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art.
Charlie Parker
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SuperBee
802 posts
Jan 08, 2013
5:13 PM
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I had one. Couldn't find the value in it. Sold it on.
I've thought about it a lot. Just can't see how it helps. If I didn't have volume control, I can see maybe it would be useful
I think it's really a whole different bag than the K AFB. That thing as I understand it fights feedback while you are playing. The LW product only cuts feedback while you aren't playing. As soon as you produce a sound loud enough to open the gate you are gonna be susceptible to feedback. I just turn my VC down when I'm not playing.
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timeistight
1038 posts
Jan 08, 2013
5:34 PM
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"That thing as I understand it fights feedback while you are playing."
Really? How does it do that?
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They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art.
Charlie Parker
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SuperBee
803 posts
Jan 08, 2013
7:18 PM
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It doesn't? I don't know then. I thought it messed with tone/signal frequency. I thought that's what this pedal was supposed to do; allow you to get louder. If its just to stop feedback when you're not playing, yeah okay. Compare it to the harp shield by all means.
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Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2013 7:19 PM
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Bluedawgbluesacrat
13 posts
Jan 08, 2013
7:47 PM
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@clarksdale.......just ordered my shield and the new compression pedal today from lone wolf......I've had a harp break and delay for few years..love Randy's pedals....play a sm57 and sonny jr 4x10 that was built around 2005..... I'm actually in ibc solo dou again this year....Memphis blues society......saw you on the ibc entrants tab......maybe we'll meet and talk some harp.......JD Taylor, jackson tn
http://youtu.be/b6ZgUFau6wE
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Willspear
257 posts
Jan 08, 2013
9:53 PM
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Kinder afb does affect and minimize feedback during play. I gather from what I have seen the lone wolf harp shield just prevents feedback when not playing. Helps prevent dumbass moments. I might be missing something. Although if that is the extent of it then using it with a kinder could be great for those awkwardly tight stages where you are basically sitting on your amp.
The kinder is seems to be a notch filter combined with harmonic distortion. It does exactly what it claims. Reduces feedback and adds crunch.
At some point ill get the the harp shield but I honestly haven't had feedback issues lately. The kinder does fine by me.
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SuperBee
805 posts
Jan 09, 2013
4:36 AM
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Yep, I thought there was more to the harp shield, bought it, tried it, found it to be worse than useless for the very loud soundstage I was on. Had to set the sensitivity really high, or the drums would trigger the gate. With the setting so high, sometimes my playing would allow the gate to close. Much easier not to worry about it and just roll the volume off if feed back threatened.
That said, there was a moment I was using my non-switched 57, with no VC, when I thought, " oh here is where that noise gate would be handy", but I just stepped aside and the problem went away.
It wasn't helpful for me. Oh well, big deal, that's a specific situation. I just don't think it's right to compare it to the K AFB+ and put it forward as an alternative solution when as far as I can see they address quite different situations.
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5F6H
1486 posts
Jan 09, 2013
4:56 AM
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@Will Spear - "The kinder is seems to be a notch filter combined with harmonic distortion. It does exactly what it claims. Reduces feedback and adds crunch."
I don't think it is a notch filter specifically, though the 2 distortion modes it appears to work on (Kinder calls them type A & B) do have the effect of reducng the high end component & therefore feedback...but I don't believe them to target a specific frequency, or band.
The Kinder is designed to introduce a degree of character, via 2 basic modes, that has the beneficial effect of reducing feedback at a given level out. The LW Harp Shield is a noise gate, disconnecting you from the amp when no signal is detected, eliminating feedback.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2013 4:57 AM
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timeistight
1040 posts
Jan 09, 2013
9:47 AM
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So the Kinder AFB circuits don't do any gating at all?
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They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art.
Charlie Parker
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5F6H
1488 posts
Jan 09, 2013
10:36 AM
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Well, I can't say that for sure, but if you get feedback when holding the mic, with the amp on, not playing, then "no" it's not primarily a gate. You can get a slight delay in response on the front of the note, a little drag, but this is not necessarily due to the function of a gate, just a side effect of degredation/colouring of signal from the AFB & UB.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
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Rick Davis
1141 posts
Jan 09, 2013
11:20 AM
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I don't think the AFB+ does any gating. I've tried several anti-feedback devices including gates and notch filters, and the AFB works differently. It is not a perfect solution, and if you overdo it your sound really suffers. But when set up correctly for the circumstances it is a great tool.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2013 11:20 AM
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Willspear
259 posts
Jan 09, 2013
11:24 AM
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You will get feedback not playing with a kinder. It is definitely not a gate. Or if it includes a gate it has a threshold that is quite low. Don't know nearly enough about electronics to begin to dissect a kinder. All I know is it works and if you try to get it to do to much it ruins tone.
The harp octave doesn't do anything but add harmonic content and it actually has pretty good feedback reduction. Not as much as a kinder but enough to be useful and noticeable. Combine it and a kinder and I can get a pretty good harpking tone out of a bassman.
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SuperBee
807 posts
Jan 09, 2013
12:06 PM
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So, in view of the OP, I got no problem with placing an ad for the LW pedal here, but lets say what the situation is in which it is useful, not market it as a cheap alternative to the Kinder AFB which is for quite a different application..
If you are suffering from feedback when moving around the stage not playing, or approaching your amp to alter settings say, the harp shield from Lone Wolf will be your friend.
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Bigtone
40 posts
Jan 20, 2013
11:43 PM
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I am going to agree I got the Lone Wolf and had it for a few days. It didnt do much of anything for me. I play using loudest 20 watt amps with my band and I changed to full powered batteries twice and used a power supply thinking it would fix it but the thing didn't work. And all I use is a cr straight to the amp. No matter what volume if I let my hands off the mic and stopped playing the pedal still allowed feedback to rush through it didnt mute it in any way. It did work slightly when turned to ten but then it only picked up signal when you played very hard. i watched the videos on the site thinkin wow it looks like it works when the knob was on three but that was not the case in any fashion which is a shame.Used it at three different gigs and had not sucess but shuffleing around onstage to try and get it to work. Seems like a lot more headache than it is worth to me. Guess I am buyin a Kinder
Last Edited by on Jan 20, 2013 11:49 PM
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SuperBee
861 posts
Jan 21, 2013
12:04 AM
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Funny, I sold mine to a guy up the road here and the other day i asked him how he got on with it. this is what he said:
"Hi Mate i gave it a whirl with my Custom Harpgearcab 15 weber & my strongest GB i could only ever get the volume on the rig set to around Volume 1 1/2 - Tone 6 this was just on Feed back
But with Pedal Volume up to 7 Tone 10 Befor Feedback but i was only testing it at those setting but it works for me Cheers"
I mean, this is the actual very same unit I had which I found of zero use. Yet Brett can now turn his volume up to 7 rather than 1 1/2.
This is the most bizarre thing. I don't even understand how it could possibly happen but there ya go.
I still don't think it should be compared to Kinder
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TetonJohn
71 posts
Jan 21, 2013
7:46 AM
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@Bigtone
It sure seems like you were attempting to use it for what it was designed for, so I think you should contact Randy. He would probably want to know what's going on that it isn't working for you. He might have some suggestion and I bet he would want to make things right with you.
@SuperB
That really is bizarre!
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2013 7:49 AM
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MrVerylongusername
2465 posts
Jan 21, 2013
8:10 AM
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@ superbee
Maybe your mate wasn't playing with a band, or was playing with a quieter outfit maybe?
if I recall, your problem with the unit was that the volume of the band was so high that the gate could never close even at the highest threshold setting.
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Bigtone
41 posts
Jan 21, 2013
8:48 AM
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@TentonJohn
Yeah it was weird because I thought the pedal would work great and I saw all the videos etc.. My friend here in town who is on the forum has the delay and octave pedal and they are great especially the delay so I was surprised that I just couldn't get anything from it really. I just used my 520 and a turner bx with a cr through a 1959 Danelectro with a 15in speaker and 6l6's. What was weird too was that when the pedal was plugged in it was boosting my amp kinda hard. Prior to getting it my buddy from asheville and I used his old Roctron I think it was and it was a noise gate and through my same amp it was a great pedal and did what it did so I do not know if something was wrong with them but it did not work for me. I hate to even talk about it in public because I do not wanna hurt anyones feelings but I saw everyone else was talkin so I figured maybe I could get some feedback.
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SuperBee
863 posts
Jan 21, 2013
12:59 PM
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Vlong, yes that's right, my soundstage was clearly too loud for the concept. Same issue as big tone, to make it cutoff I had to put the sensitivity really low which meant I had to play really hard.
But even in my room alone, I tested it and found only a very small difference, if any, on the volume I could get. It was more about where I could stand in relation to the amp at any time. And I still had to take care where I stood when playing. Like will spear says, prevents dumbass moments.
But just conceptually I don't understand how a guy could actually turn up to 6 with the device and only 1.5 without. You still have to be able to play without feedback. If you can play at 6 without feedback...why on earth would you be getting feedback at 2 when you weren't playing? I just don't get it. That's not how it works.
And of course, if you don't have a loud soundstage, how come feedback is a problem anyway. I was running a 60w 410 as loud as I could get it and struggling to hear it, but if I was playing in a duo like the guy I sold that pedal to, I'd have been looking to a pedal to make that amp break up at low volume you dig. There wouldn't have been any feedback problem unless I put the mic in front of the amp.
Yeah look, I don't doubt it does what it's supposed to do. Just it is not the same purpose as a kinder pedal and I find the messages implying it is are rather misleading.
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HarpNinja
3113 posts
Jan 21, 2013
1:25 PM
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Haven't tried the pedal, but there are so many variables relative to a noise gate.
I don't recall, though, ever having a problem with feedback while playing. I would imagine that that would be a shitty deal even with a Kinder, which I did have for some time.
I've found feedback devices work best when you are on the verge of FB and not trying to do way more than an amp can handle with a mic.
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Custom Harmonicas
Optimized Harmonicas
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garry
340 posts
Jan 21, 2013
6:13 PM
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i borrowed a friend's unit to try out, but i didn't find it useful with my rig. even at its lowest setting, it cut out all but the loudest of my playing. and i found the on/off transitions really annoying.
it wasn't a total loss, however. it inspired me to look into the noise gate built into my vt-30. did a little tweaking with my saved settings, and it does a pretty good job cutting out feedback when not playing, just like the harp shield is supposed to.
pretty sweet. this amp still surprises me.
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7LimitJI
681 posts
Jan 22, 2013
12:56 AM
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It works as described for me using either a crystal or CR mic into a bassman.Doesn't alter the tone in any way.
It doesn't give a vast increase in volume, just a bit more headroom, which was all I needed.
I also like the fact it completely de-couples the mic when I'm not playing, preventing squeals if I happen to point the mic at the amp or get closer to it.
I could remove the volume pot from my mics now, but won't as I don't always use the harp shield.
Getting the band to play quieter is still the best solution though.
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The Pentatonics Reverbnation
Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2013 12:56 AM
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Kingley
2225 posts
Jan 22, 2013
1:10 AM
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I could be wrong here so please correct me if I am. Having never used either device I can't comment on them from a personal viewpoint. Here's my understanding of the devices and what they do.
The Lone Wolf Harp Shield - My understanding is that the Harp Shield is basically a noise gate, that prevents feedback when you're not playing. Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to simply either turn down/off the volume on your mic when not playing? Or maybe have an on/off switch on your mic and just use that instead?
The Kinder AFB+ - The AFB+ as i understand it is some kind of frequency filter device that was intended to give a certain kind of crunch that Rod Piazza liked, to amps that he was using when on the road that were unknown quantities to him. To make a more level playing field for him so to speak. The feedback properties found in the device were more a happy by-product of the testing that John Kinder and Rod did during the making of the device, rather than an intended path of action. Those Kinder AFB+ ideas were then later incorporated into the Kinder HarpKing range of amps.
"Getting the band to play quieter is still the best solution though"
That is the best solution for many, many reasons. Tinnitus and deafness are so common in musicians that it's become beyond ridiculous. Many musicians are their own worst enemies though when it comes to volume. They play at very loud volumes for years and then complain when they start to lose their hearing. It really is the epitome of stupid. I mean how many painters cut off their fingers on purpose? Would a photographer shine a light directly into his eye a few times a week until he went blind? Next time you're playing with a stupidly loud band, ask yourself one simple question. What's more important to me, my music or my ego?
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2013 3:04 AM
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5F6H
1508 posts
Jan 22, 2013
4:26 AM
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@ Kingley " The feedback properties found in the device were more a happy by-product of the testing that John Kinder and Rod did during the making of the device, rather than an intended path of action. Those Kinder AFB+ ideas were then later incorporated into the Kinder HarpKing range of amps."
It was the other way around, Kinder developed these ideas on amps (he was modifying amps prior to the Harpking's release), then emulated the effects with the AFB+ pedal.
Your appraisal of the Harp shield seems pretty much spot on, but the benefit to me would appear to be that you don't have to worry about constant pot adjustment/switching mics on & off, the pedal should take care of that for you. Sure, not the cheapest way, but convenient.
Neither pedal is going to make an underpowered amp sound like something twice as loud (with the same tone), which makes me wonder about Bigtone's experience...whilst I wouldn't expect the Harp Shield to make the Dano feedback more, if the Dano was loud enough to gig with (no feedback) without the pedal, why is it feeding back so much now? If the amp is pushed to the point of feeding back whilst playing, the Harp Shield probably isn't going to help. The AFB+ can only help in that situation by changing the tone.
I often think that when feedback surpression is discussed, people's expectations are a little unrealistic (generally speaking, not suggesting that is Bigtone's issue specifically). These are useful tools, not magic wands.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
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Kingley
2227 posts
Jan 22, 2013
4:20 AM
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5F6H - Doh! Of course I remember now. Must have had my brain turned off when I wrote that. Thanks for correcting and reminding me Mark.
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