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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Some Good Advice From Thelonious Monk
Some Good Advice From Thelonious Monk
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barbequebob
31 posts
Nov 03, 2009
12:55 PM
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Here's something that was emailed to me by customizer Richard Sleigh that all musicians, including harmonica players should really take heed to because it really is some excellent advice:
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Dear Barbeque,
Here is a juicy quote from Theolonius Monk. (If you don't know who he is, find out &
listen to him):
Thelonious Monk's Advice 1960
Just because you're not a drummer, doesn't mean that you don't have to keep time.
Pat your foot and sing the melody in your head when you play.
Stop playing all those bullshit notes.
Make the drummer sound good.
You've got to dig it, to dig it, you dig?
Don't play the piano part, I'm playing that.
Don't listen to me, I'm supposed to accompanying you.
Don't play everything, let some things go by.
Some music is just imagined.
What you don't play can be more important than what you do play.
A note can be as small as a pin or as big as the world, it depends on your imagination.
Stay in shape! (When the gig comes, you have to make it.)
When you're swinging, swing some more.
What should we wear tonight? Be as sharp as possible.
Always leave them wanting more.
These tunes were written so as to have something to play, and to get cats interested
enough to come to rehearsal.
Whatever you think can't be done, somebody will come along and do it.
A genius is the one most like himself.
They tried to get me to hate white people, but someone would always come along and
spoil it!
The only thing I added to this long quote was some space between his lines. I may
riff on some of these ideas in later posts, but today I am keeping my mouth shut.
Sometimes the best thing I have to say is nothing!
Have a terrific day!
R. Sleigh
205 E. Pine Street
Philipsburg, PA
16866
US
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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toddlgreene
81 posts
Nov 03, 2009
12:59 PM
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Some great stuff there, Bob...thanks!
"They tried to get me to hate white people, but someone would always come along and
spoil it!" -very indicative of the day and age he said/wrote it, and that good hearts can prevail.
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GO SAINTS!
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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Buddha
1122 posts
Nov 03, 2009
1:09 PM
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Monk didn't write that.
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~Buddha
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
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barbequebob
32 posts
Nov 03, 2009
1:54 PM
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Really!! Then who did??
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Buddha
1123 posts
Nov 03, 2009
2:01 PM
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Steve Lacy
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~Buddha
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
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toddlgreene
82 posts
Nov 03, 2009
2:06 PM
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Yeah, but didn't he write them down as TM said them, or something to that effect? Regardless, some cool words.
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GO SAINTS!
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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Buddha
1124 posts
Nov 03, 2009
2:11 PM
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who knows? The fact is, Monk didn't write them. For all we know Steve is just some dude trying to capitalize on Monk's names. Now I doubt that's true but still...be careful of what you read and who wrote what.
You guys need to do you research before accepting things so blindly. And that's precisely why I didn't at first mention who really penned the words.
Regardless of who wrote it, it's good advice but in reality its nothing more than common sense if you're a musician. As far as taking advice, we all have good things to offer each other. Just because "Monk" said it doesn't give it any more weight than if Adam, Jason or even Christelle said it. But somehow if you heard it from a 7yr old piano player you wouldn't believe it. The words are the same, the advice is the same yet WHO gives the meaning less creditability.
The best advice I can give you, is listen to yourself above all else. The world you live in, is the world YOU created
Since we're on the topic of jazz in the era and who wrote what... who are the three people to have claimed to be the composer of Donna Lee?
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~Buddha
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Last Edited by on Nov 03, 2009 2:18 PM
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sopwithcamels266
231 posts
Nov 03, 2009
3:46 PM
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If you know anything about Monk then some of the things quoted here a in some ways a bit of a joke.
He was an original I will give him that.And for that he gets my respect but that's it.
Strange posting Monk sayings on a blues site, I guess
If you get something from it it's Ok but none of that means much to blues playing to me.
You either dig Monk or not .
Most of time to me Monk sounded as if he was wearing boxing gloves ha ha.
Not how I wish to play. May be I dig some of it in a trio but I wouldn't wish to do any horn playing in front of a Monk style player for obvious reasons.
I just don't dig the flat 5 nailed that way. or he's bent time on #5 etc
To me when he played blues (thats jazz blues of course) he would take the beutiful deep rich blue colours and make them drab dull and depressing which is not for me.
A Monk style harp player man, that could be next,it would have originality for sure on the harp, but I would avoid listenning at all costs.
It is only my opinion, I do have to say I own Just about every record and duplicated Cd,s of everything Monk did.
Last Edited by on Nov 03, 2009 3:49 PM
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schaef6o
14 posts
Nov 03, 2009
5:26 PM
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charlie parker
miles davis
dizzy gillespie
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toddlgreene
83 posts
Nov 04, 2009
4:43 AM
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Buddha-I'm not impressed by fame. People who 'make it' in whatever walk of life they choose, are still just people at their core. I don't see them as any higher in echelon than the average Joe. So, regardless of who the quotes are from, I still dig them. I don't need to be told I'm 'accepting things blindly', by you or anyone else. If Mr. Monk were still alive and sitting next to me and I had read the quotes above, I would certainly ask him if they were his words before I quoted them as such. So, I'm guilty of not Googling the quotes as fast as you. I can live with that.
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GO SAINTS!
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Nov 04, 2009 4:57 AM
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kudzurunner
758 posts
Nov 04, 2009
5:05 AM
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"Strange posting Monk sayings on a blues site, I guess
If you get something from it it's Ok but none of that means much to blues playing to me."
"Just because "Monk" said it doesn't give it any more weight than if Adam, Jason or even Christelle said it."
This is fascinating. Sopwith and Buddha, to judge by their own statements, are the two most ardent jazz-heads on this forum. Buddha has said more than once that he's not really a blues guy, doesn't like blues much, doesn't respect many blues players, etc. Sopwith has made it clear that he's a JAZZ horn player, not a blues horn player. I respect both guys for their jazz approach, even though I might wish they gave blues a little more respect.
Now somebody posts a list of inspirational sayings attributed to Monk, a jazz guy. You'd think that would make the hard-core jazz guys happy. No! They jump all over it.
Fascinating.
Maybe there's something to learn here. Maybe jazz guys are No! guys and Blues guys are Hell yes! guys.
Or something like that.
Or maybe not.
Re-bop.
Sleigh get kudos from Gussow for the list of you-know-whats.
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toddlgreene
84 posts
Nov 04, 2009
5:10 AM
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Good Morning, Doc!
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/with/keyword/blues/
Some more quotes that can either be attributed to the alleged originators, or just taken for face value.
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GO SAINTS!
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Nov 04, 2009 5:22 AM
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barbequebob
33 posts
Nov 04, 2009
5:49 AM
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The reason why I posted this was because it really cuts across many genres of music, including blues. There are some things that are implied rather than actually played. What you don't play is certainly as important as what you do play, and that keeping time isn't just the drummer's job, because it's everybody's job and too often I see too many players just play notes that have absolutely nothing to do with the groove, and rather than working with the groove, they're fighting it, and truth be told, if the groove is a mess, so is the band, and no amount of virtuosic playing can cover that up regardless of the skills of the people playing the solos.
In today's jazz, groove is more often implied than played, but in other genres, particularly in black music, be it blues, gospel, hiphop, etc., and also with latin music, after the vocals, groove is everything.
Some of what turns many people off to blues as its being played today is the fact that far too much importance is being paid to the soloing aspect, and far too little stress is placed on the importance of the vocals and the groove.
I'm a traditional blues player by trade, but I do listen to a far wider variety of things than most people here do and always like to know what makes certain genres and sub-genres tick so that whenever I get placed in a situation that's different from my "comfort level," I can fit properly within the context and that's something I see too often not happening with a lot of musicians and among those definitely are harp players.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Nov 04, 2009 8:59 AM
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jawbone
154 posts
Nov 04, 2009
7:29 AM
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I enjoyed the post - there is a lot of wisdom in whoever did the quoting. Even tho I don't normally enjoy listening to most jazz I can appreciate a nice groove. I remember looking forward to a show with Willie Nelson and Wynton Marsallis (doing Blues) but to my ears it was like having dental work done with no novicaine. To me, nothing fit. The only highlight was Mickey on harp.
I'm one of those harp players that really stuggles if it's not blues. I like Mike Steven's line about "I don't play a style, I just react to the music that is played around me." (That may not be an exact quote) so get over it! ;-)
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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kudzurunner
759 posts
Nov 04, 2009
8:39 AM
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BBQ Bob:
I'm glad to see you here. I caught one of your shows in Boston many years ago--mid- to late-90s, I think. I was impressed. You were doing some nice 3rd position stuff on a big chromatic, as I remember.
I also remember Watermelon Slim from the days at the 1369 Jazz bar in Cambridge. He was the most ferocious player I've ever seen. I really don't know any other player who attacked the harp with that much intensity--and I was a pretty intense guy myself. But he scared me.
He's still a fine player, but he's not playing like that these days.
Am I remembering correctly? Wasn't he a scary mofo back then?
edited to add: I love jazz as much as I love blues. I used to spend every Friday night with my butt glued to a barstool in Augie's (now Smoke) on 105th and Broadway in NYC, watching Jessie Davis blow alto.
Last Edited by on Nov 04, 2009 8:40 AM
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barbequebob
37 posts
Nov 04, 2009
8:56 AM
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The 1369 is like ancient history!!! Bringing me back to the days of the dinosaur (lol)!! I'm glad you enjoyed what you saw. Slim's playing has much more focus now but back then, I'd say his vocals were better than his harp playing was.
I don't recall if you introduced yourself to me or not. A couple of years ago, I was on a chat in a now defunct blues site and Jason Ricci was on it and he had told me that he was the kid that got my phone number many years ago and spent 2-3 hours non stop on the phone grilling me for as much info as possible on playing harmonica and kept reminding him he was calling from Maine, and that long distance bill would add up fast back then but he didn't care, and I had'nt remembered that for many years until that day on the blues chat.
I also enjoy jazz a lot myself and actually, I listen to horns more than harp players and I can hear just how much guys like a Little Walter, Cotton, Big Walter, etc. all took from them.
I have an old NYC friend who has that whole Cotton/Wolf harp sound cold, and that's Danny Russo. Do you know him by chance?
Been a long time since I did a gig in NYC. In fact, the last time was in 1980 at the old Union Sqaure location of Tramps when I was on the road with Jimmy Rogers and I got to meet Steve Guyger at that gig.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Nov 04, 2009 8:58 AM
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sopwithcamels266
232 posts
Nov 04, 2009
9:01 AM
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Kudzurunner: Ha ha Yea I agree with you it is odd.You would have thought I would have thought that was great
(Are they his words they sound very suspect to me?)
I can't see some of Monks sayings here applying
to a blues man. In fact I kind of don't agree with some of them on the jazz front either.
His words I am guessing were directed at jazz players.
I don't really see them as inspiring.
More like a list of instuctions to facilitate performance.His views on what a front player should or should not be doing is totally subjective.
I don't agree with those words
Everyone should be listenning to everyone in order to react.
The golden rule basic when your starting out is to play down the melodic line and hook in on the bass.
Monk is I guess talking to guys who have already been playing a long time. I still hold with if your up front and not listenning to the piano along with everything else there is something wrong.
Just cause Monk has been quoted with these words dosen't mean that he's right.
Lastly I think inspiration is a very personal thing,
In this context a list of very debateable instructions by a jazz piano player way back when who a lot of blues players won't even be aware of,(Great they are now )
Seems very strange to me.
Last Edited by on Nov 04, 2009 9:43 AM
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