There were some truly nice moments. Notice her use of dynamics and the keen use of space. Almost no player I have heard does that. It's nice to see other players venturing on the same turf that I do. There is lots of beautiful non-blues but equally expressive music to be found there.
Christelle certainly expresses herself well with this tune and if she backed away from the blues tricks, runs and techniques, she could really make her mark playing music like she does in the video.
Here's the song she was trying to play, seems to me, she quickly lost her way and didn't quite get there or simply can't play the tune. I suspect she would have won if her playing were more cogent.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Holy smokes, I think you did find the source of her inspiration. I can't believe she beats herself up for getting 2nd in a world harmonica competition, if only my life would suck that much, lol.
Okay so how does one translate Ms. Rae's song into harmonica the way Christelle did? Just find the same notes on the right harmonica?
---------- ~Ryan Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
"Okay so how does one translate Ms. Rae's song into harmonica the way Christelle did? Just find the same notes on the right harmonica?"
a tune like this is all about melody and the vocal inflections. Christelle used what I think is a C harp and that's is simply the wrong harp choice. Yes the notes are there but playing harmonica in a lyrical styles demands you find the harp that allows you get the appropriate inflection along with the emotions of the player.
Christelle has marvelous technique but why does she fail? Because she is not able to transcend the technique required to play this type of song in the position she chose. I don't think I could either.
So what harp would I choose? At fist attempt the G harp seems to work perfectly. The melody is simple, so try it on the G harp and then on the C harp and see for yourself. I like how it lays on the D harp but that's too high pitched for me so I would use the G harp.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Buddha, I was wondering why you asked if Christelle claimed the piece to be an original composition, since the name of the piece, "Like a Star", was in the title of the video. But, as I looked at the website they had a brochure with all the contestants, the songs they intended to play, and the composer of the piece. For Christelle it said the title of the song she was going to play was "Fantasy in G Minor" and that she was the composer. It would seem she changed her mind and decided to play something else instead, but I don't want to speculate too much.
Last Edited by on Nov 10, 2009 3:12 PM
I had many friends at the harmonica festival. I heard from several people who won what, who did what etc... When I was told about the results and the reasons for the results (I won't share them, so don't ask) I asked what tune Christelle played. I was told it was an original composition.
Just before she posted the perfomance video, she posted a video that says she's not posting anymore videos and was going to stop playing harmonica. The text description of that video, alludes to the fact that it was her composition.
"I made second at the World Harmonica Championship in Trossingen, 25 contestants, I was the second with 42,3 points, the first was a Taiwan guy he's got 44,1, he was obviously trained as an athlete. I feel bad about this and I don't want to post anything for a good while. Sorry.
Jerry Portnoy, Joe Filisko, Carlos Del Junco, and Marcos and Henry was there as a Jury and at least 3 of them don't considered me as producing the 1 st quality music (it was a composition). Even Jean Jacques Milteau has still never said to me that I was a good musician.
If you've a complaint because I don't post videos write to them, this is their fault not mine" ---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
The circumstances do seem pretty confusing. As I was saying it seems the contestants were required to inform the judges of what song they would be playing and who the composer is, when they registered. In the brochure it clearly shows she said was going to play a song called "Fantasy in G Minor" an original composition. I'm assuming they wanted to know what everyone was playing beforehand so that they could print out handouts for the audience so they would know what each contestant was playing. I suppose its possible she changed her song selection at the last moment and everyone assumed she was playing what was printed in the brochure. If this was the case I would sure hope she informed the judges, since knowing whether or not it was an original compostion could affect the judging. Like I said I don't want to make too much speculation with out all the information, but I do realise it is also possible that she just said it was an original even if it wasn't, but the fact that she posted the correct name of the piece on the video would seem to me to suggest otherwise. I do think that her reaction to coming in second is extremely childish. She's only been playing harp seriously for a couple of years and she was able to place second in a world competition, and yet she acts like child because she didn't take first. She blames the judges for her not posting anymore videos because they didn't award her first place or lavish her with compliments. That's pretty ridiculous.
Last Edited by on Nov 08, 2009 8:45 PM
I've seen music competitions destroy people, more than once.
On the one hand, they are good, because they allow people to showcase their talent.
On the other, judging (particularly at an elite level) is VERY subjective, and what a judge will rank may have more to do with what they had for breakfast, if they had a fight with their spouse, etc.
For example, one guy I know (no, it is not me) won a ton of competitions when he was in his late teens, early twenties. Ten years later, he told me he has not been able to win a competitions for a long time. This is despite the fact that he is ten times the player he was 10 years ago.
My mother told me to avoid problem centered people.
BTW: Why would you question the judgement of Jerry Portnoy, Joe Filisko, Carlos Del Junco and others? Come on, it's not the judges.
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2009 5:45 AM
Without seeing Jang Li's diatonic performance, it is hard to be sure, but judging from his chrom piece he appears to be far more relaxed and comfortable on stage. Christelle seemed a bit nervous.
I was listening hard to try and work out what I didn't like, but there was something. Then I read Chris' comments on key choice and I think he's nailed it. The passing Eb in the hook is a bit obvious as a 4OB, using a G or D harp would have meant it was a regular draw bend; easier to put the right kind of inflection on the note. To have something that sticks out in the first 20 seconds of your performance like that isn't good - whether it demonstrates your overblowing ability or not. Personally I think the music should take priority over the technical display.
The rest of the performance is hard to fault, she's very fluid and her classical training is apparent in her understanding of dynamics.
To be placed that high, by judges of that calibre should have been an honour. To not even acknowledge the Champion by his name is rude.
MR....I agree. I didn't think her performance was very musical either, kind of cold. What would different judges have said? Randy, "You nailed it Dawg!" Paula, "I loved your outfit!" Simon, "Don't quit your day job."
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2009 7:23 AM
I don't questions the results or the judges. But I've seen competitions where the lesser man won. Not saying that is what happened here, just saying it happens.
I've never been one to enter competition but in 2000 I thought what the heck, I'm entering the guitar center harmonica contest because it will give more viability to the Harmonica Summit.
I was head and shoulders above all of the other players yet I came in dead last. I was told I had no business being in the competition. They were right.
There are some players and Christelle is one of them, that have no business being in a harmonica competition.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
um no, why would you say that? I came in dead last amoung 44 contestees and Jason won the whole shebang. It's documented somewhere I know Jason made references to it on harp-l a year or two ago.
I'm incorrect, because it's not Guitar Center but Mars Music. I think it was 2000 and not 1999 but I could be wrong. Mars Music was a sponsor for the harmonica summit after I lost and then it was planned that the winner would perform at the Summit. The winner was to perform with Kim Wilson somewhere in Wisconsin at the time of the summit. I did get Kim to come to the Summit but jason didn't play with him then for some reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Ricci ---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Let me share my opinions base on the WV State Harmonica Championship that The Harmonica Club of Huntington WV has held. For reference, everyone was a local amatuer.
After reviewing the judge's scores, there can be a LOT of variation. One contestant was a judges 1st place score, but that contestant did not even place when all 3 (or4) scores were added. Though it's not proven, I swear the first contestant is judged the harshest, and the scores get better as the eventy oes on. How often is the first contestant the winner??? I would like feedback from other people's experiences.
Even though there is a lot of variations, I still consider the competitions fair. But I also realize that these events need to be put in perspective. Just because someone wins an event does not mean he's the one eveyone runs out to hear, or that he is an entertainer that will be succesful. The winner just had a good day for that group of judges.
I hosted a contest for nearly 10 years. I tried to get a panel of 3 or 4 prominent pro players to judge, (Joe Filisko was among the judges twice) We used a grading system that judged the performers on everything from tone, to rhythmn to crowd appeal, each characteristic given a score of 1-6. I added the scores, not the judges, judges never saw the final scores. This system was designed by a friend who was also a very talented musician and wanted to come up with an objective means of evaluating performance. When the scores were tallied I was often surprised at the results. The bottom line is, it is difficult to be totally objective, but I think the more judges you have, the less likely you are to have a competition rated on preference of style or music. By the way, I have observed some non harmonica contests in the last few years that rated the performers heavily on stage preference rather than ability. In one contest some phenomel players didn't place while pretty girls with moderate ability took the top spots.
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2009 12:29 PM
Psychologists have done studies where they separate kids into two groups. They give the kids in each group an easy puzzle to solve. When the kids solve the puzzle, they tell kids in the first group how smart they are. In the second group they tell them what a good effort they made. Then they offered both sets of kids a choice. They could do another puzzle like the first one, or they could try a harder one. The kids who'd been told they were smart wanted to do another easy puzzle. They'd been praised for being smart and if they can't solve the next puzzle they are afraid they won't get praise. The kids in the second group, having been praised for good effort, wanted to get more kudos for a good effort, so they chose the harder puzzles.
If you win a contest and all you take away from it is how great you are you are setting yourself up for a crash. What you need to look at is how much effort you put into it. If you lose, you need to just keep practicing.
Contests can give you an idea of how far you've come, but don't look at winning as the be all end all. You have to enjoy the whole thing, practicing, getting up on stage, getting feedback on how you did and how you can improve, getting to hang out with other people who have passion for the same things you do, getting to create music.
I seem to be a minority voice in this thread, but that's OK.
Christelle did indeed come in second out of 23 players, and she was one of only two players to accumulate enough points (i.e., over 40) that she was adjudged "outstanding."
I don't see that as failure. I see that as a remarkable achievement.
As for the performance itself: Her choice of harp key didn't strike me as a debit. I wish she'd hung a little closer to the melody, but since she was calling this "Fantasy in G Minor," her decision to veer away from Corinne Bailey Rae's melody makes perfect sense. The veering--the improvisation--struck me as adventurous and interesting. This Christelle is light-years ahead of the player I stood next to in southern France one year ago. That player was raw, loud, intense, and didn't leave space. This player has a much sweeter sound and some real lyricism. I'm not surprised, on the basis of the performance on this video, that she vanquished 24 other players. We all love to be #1, but in this case, #2 carries, or should carry, some serious bragging rights and the sense of a job well done.
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2009 1:01 PM
I think it's a good idea to ask yourself why you want to enter in the first place. I think some folks do it because they simply enjoy performing, especially if their friends are there. I entered a contest last year because the prizes were pretty amazing and few people entered. But it is fun enter. But you are right, no one needs to go off Kanye West style because they didn't win!
In Christelle's case, entering makes perfect sense: most of her reputation has been made through home-recorded videos. No matter how impressive those performances might be, they can't quite add up to performance credits. The next step is clearly to do what she's been doing: go to SPAH and jam; compete on a highly public stage in Trossingen. It's a growth move, and I applaud it.
Buddha, Can you explain what they meant when they told you "(you) had no business being in the competition."
Does that mean they didn't think you should have entered because you were obviously one of the top players in the world? I know there was some controversy at the time about Jason being in it because the contest was for amatuers only. People got upset and (incorrectly) said that Jason was a working pro, which at that time he was not.
Ryan, I don't know but I do know they took my entry as a joke. I think when a person gets to a certain facility they they have no business entering a contest. I think christelle's playing and skills are far beyond that of a typical harmonica contestant. There comes a point where it's hard to judge a person's playing.
Can you imagine Gussow in a world harmonica competition? Nobody would take him seriously because he's so good at what he does, that he has broken barriers and set new standards for the instrument. In a way, Christelle has accomplished the same thing. She needs to focus on her people, her audience and forget about contests. When you develop the kind of following, that Adam and Christelle has, there is a point where your music is for them and the only contest there is, is how to make your next CD, lesson, video, better than the last.
One of the hardest things to achieve is developing a personal and unique style of playing. She's done that and it's something that most of you will never do. That puts her in the leader category whether or not she wants it. And when you get to that point there is nothing to prove to anyone.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Those are kind words, Chris, and I appreciate them. Truth is, I'd be nervous taking part in a harmonica competition. Given what you've said, I'd have nothing to gain. If I won, people would say I was a ringer. If I did anything other than win, people would jump up and down, point, and snicker about how Gussow wasn't as good as he thought he was.
I don't think of myself as a particularly good solo player--the way that Filisko, for example, can play a whole set of solo pieces--and the challenge for me would be to come up with a dazzling performance piece, a.k.a. Buddy Greene's famous YT video.
I saw the video where Christelle said she wouldn't be posting more. It started off with her saying that she'd finished second in a contest, in Trossingen, the birthplace of harmonicas. I was thinking: cool, congratulations, and then she started saying how depressed this made her. I don't think anyone here thought a second place finish was anything less than great. Perfectionism is great when it gets you to practice, but that same drive can become a burden when it doesn't let you enjoy what you've already accomplished.
Add to that the internet, that beast that always sits there a click away and that gloomy feeling after not coming in first that you'd get over in a day or two gets posted for everyone to see. I've seen more videos up already from her, so it didn't seem to take her long to realize that the important thing is the music not the accolades.
i think shes crazy. i donno if she does it for attention or to fish for compliments or if she really does think shes not a good as she is. either way shes a tad bit too emo.
She is the first internet harp performer. Her following is purely down to Youtube. Ronnie Shellist is doing lessons, whereas Christelle is performing. Adam and Chris already had reputations as "harp players harp players". Jason was gigging almost daily to get his music out there.
So how does someone go from unknown Youtube performer to credible 'real world' musician?
In most people's heads, Christelle's already crossed the boundary between amateur and pro as Chris describes (witness what happened in the Harp friends contest - most people either ignored her entry in the marking, or judged it using a completely different yardstick) So it's unlikely she'll find much more recognition through these sorts of competitions. (Dammit 2nd place is amazing - why so negative???) To have got to where she is, using only a macbook and a couple of endorsement deals is phenomenal and a curse in equal measure. She's skipped the legwork, not had the opportunity to learn the stagecraft
Is she recording? Is she performing? Has she got a good publicist/agent?
It seems to me that's her choice now, be the queen of a virtual world or be thrown into a tough competitive reality (where you cannot delete bad criticism, remove recordings you no longer feel happy with or delete messages you regret writing).
I said in another thread that technology and the internet is changing how people create and distribute music, bypassing all the 'traditional' channels. Well Christelle is either a guinea pig or a vanguard or something... I dunno I'm rambling... *click*
This sounds like the Theme tune for "Last of the Summer Wine" a old british light comedy series. My Grandad and Granny were big fans and I think, were they alive, they would love Christelle's tune too, but I've got to say I had to turn it off after 2 minutes as it was so boring. This kind of music does nothing for me and the guy who won is even worse. I can't see how any of this music is going to move the harp forward. Don't get me wrong, they are both fantastic players but the music they play...it's just not doing it for me. Anybody else feel this?
btw: theres no way she was trying to take credit for that tune... she clearly has it listed as a "cover" on her youtube channel. ---------- http://www.youtube.com/user/asilve3
aslive3: Now that I look at her profile I see that she has two previous videos of her playing the song, and she clearly names the song and the composer. This supports what I thought, she said she intended to play a self composed peice when she registered, but it looks like she decided to play this instead when she got there. The audience must not have known about the change and just assumed she was playing a self composed peice. Hence the confusion. Too bad she doesn't read this forum anymore. From what I've seen it seems like she thinks Buddha has some kind of grudge against her, but if she read this thread she'd see that Buddha has said some very nice things about her. Although, judging by her reaction to coming in 2nd, I think she might only pay attention to the criticism.
