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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Need some help with vibrato...
Need some help with vibrato...
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Arcadiandj
1 post
Nov 14, 2009
9:52 AM
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I have been trying to get to the next level, and am almost good enough to play at a blues jam. However, I am stuck with the skill of vibrato. I can do it, but it doesn't sound smooth. It sounds mechanical and unemotional. Part of me wonders if it's a time and practice issue, but I also wonder if I'm doing it right.
I've seen one of Adam's earlier videos where he talks about vibrato specifically, and he summarizes as I recall by stating start with where you are. And that's what I've been doing. But I feel stuck.
To describe my vibrato, I would say it's like a soft cough that takes place just above my adam's apple. Any thoughts, guidance, or resources would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance:)
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tookatooka
768 posts
Nov 14, 2009
9:59 AM
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I've been working on vibrato also. I tried the stiffled cough vibrato and got it fairly smooth but to my ears it wasn't anywhere smooth enough so I'm still working on it. I have also been playing amplified harp and find that the vibrato amplified is not nearly as bad as it sounds accoustically, but I'm finding I get best results now with the diaphragm vibrato. There are a lot of opinions on this but I just persevered and kept on practicing until I got it almost right, with time hopefully it will get even better. The worst part I've found is to remember to use it.
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isaacullah
451 posts
Nov 14, 2009
10:27 AM
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I'm with tookatooka on this one. I've been playing seriously for almost 3 years now, and good, smooth MUSICAL throat vibrato still eludes me. On the draw notes that is. For some reason, on blow notes, that pulsating, throbbing, throat vibratto just comes naturally to me.
For draw notes, I resort to a combination of three other vibrato methods. My first fallback, like tookatooka, has been diaphragm (chest) vibrato. This is a fluctuation in your lung muscles. It produces (for me anyway) a very quick-paced "swamp-echo" type of vibrato. Great on those low draw chords.
On high notes and bent notes, I've started employing that mouth (tongue) vibrato technique that Chris Michalek taught me. This is where you articulate "youyouyouyou" with your tongue to make a vibrato. Like Chris says, it's like a series of little bends (like less than a semitone). It's hard for me to do on blow notes though.
The other vibratto I use is something I figured out on my own, and have never heard anyone talk about. I call it "lip" vibrato. Basically, I shake the harp a little, but not enough to make a warble. I'm a pucker player, so what happens is that the hole I'm playing on moves back and forth in the space created by my lip-blocked embouchure. Basically, this makes the aperture smaller and larger according to the rhythm of my shake, and consequently more or less air goes in the hole. The effect is a pretty pleasing vibrato. This is my go-to draw vibrato technique now. It works really well on any draw note, bent or unbent. It works well on blow notes too, but, like I said, for some reason I can do throat vibrato really well on the blow notes. One thing it does not wok for (for obvious reasons) is on tongue split octaves. There, I resort to diaphragm or throat vibrato.
Of course, if you are playing acoustically, you can also use your hands to make vibrato too (fast wah-wah's)...
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2009 10:29 AM
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DesertDog
21 posts
Nov 14, 2009
10:41 AM
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Sounds like you got the basics to me. It kind of like those machine gun noises we made as kids (do kids do that any more?) One thing to do is practice with a metronome. Practice getting 1/8 notes (2 coughs per beat) and triplets (3 coughs per beat). Start out slow and then start to increase the beats per minute.
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Gwythion
13 posts
Nov 14, 2009
10:45 AM
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I thought I recognised you in Chris Michalek's video, Isaacullah. Those are good tips.
I don't know if this tip is any use to you Arcadiandj. I, too, am at the learning vibrato stage and decided to take a lesson last week to try to nail it down (among other things). This worked for me...
...My tutor suggested I try to recall the sound we made as kids when imitating a machine gun. I made that noise, then tried it with the harmonica. It was staccato, but better than before. Then I made the machine gun noise again, but more softly and again with the harp. And so on...
Now I am sure that this tip is as old as the hills and is probably everywhere on this site. But it was new to me and it worked.
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Gwythion
14 posts
Nov 14, 2009
10:47 AM
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Ha! As I was typing, you beat me to it, Desert Dog.
Still, shows it's a good tip...
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wallyns10
82 posts
Nov 14, 2009
11:13 AM
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I think what helped me kind of develop a smoother gut vibrato is practicing a simple train rhythm a lot, just going in and out. I focused on speeding up and slowing down, and when I sped up going really fast; at the same time I really focused on using my diaphragm. I would play just a simple blow draw pattern for 10-15 minutes straight at a time, multiple times. After a while your diaphragm will start to burn and then your back and abs start to hurt, if you do it long enough. That's a good que to stop or take a break haha. Look at it like an exercise rather than trying to play music. That seemed to strengthen my diaphragm which in turn gave me much more control over my vibrato. It also pissed the hell out of my parents until I was condemned to the garage, and then the neighbors...but my neighbors suck so serves them right.
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walterharp
119 posts
Nov 14, 2009
11:31 AM
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it also helps to combine the techniques. Throat diaphragm and shaking the harp a bit. I think the shaking part of vibrato, called lip vibrato above, is more of an in and out shake that changes the shape of your mouth, and if you brace your arms on your body reinforces the diaphragm vibrato.
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mickil
622 posts
Nov 15, 2009
7:31 AM
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Like tooka, I found that I can get best results with diaphragm vibrato. But, there is a drawback - at least that's what I found.
The trouble is that you very quickly run out of air that way on the long held draw notes. So, you still have to try and get a command over what you do with your larynx, not just your diaphram. I use doc's Front-Porch Blues as a yardstick to measure my throat vibrato against. That passage in the last 12 bar - starts at somewhere around 8 mins - that goes:
2 3 4> 3 | 4 5 4' 4 4' 3 2 | 2 ^ 2 1 2'' 2 etc
& 4 & a | 1 2 3 & a 4 & a | 1 2 & a 3
I think that Adam starts the 4 draw vibrato with his throat and transfers it to his diaphram when his foot really goes to the floor on the crescendo. I could be wrong, but it seems like the most efficient way to do it to me.
Still, that passage is not easy, however you do it. Sometimes I can do it well, sometimes I can't. In a slow blues, at 60 bpm, that's 6 times a second you're attacking the note (if you keep the vibrato in time relative to the beat, which is what most sources suggest.)
I think the original poster may have got it right when he said:
Part of me wonders if it's a time and practice issue...
That's what I reckon. Throat vibrato can't be learnt in a short space of time.
Oh yeah, have a look at Ronnie Shellist's YT vid on the subject. I found it helpful, and JPAllen's. The latter will make you realise you're not alone.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2009 7:33 AM
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Arcadiandj
2 posts
Nov 15, 2009
7:22 PM
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Some other thoughts after reading the above posts, I think what I'm doing mostly is diaphragm vibrato on the inhale-which is giving me the sound I don't really like. On the exhale, I do more of a throat vibrato-which gives me the sound I like-more smooth and evocative. Perhaps making my inhale more of a throat vibrato would help? In addition to experimenting with some of the other above forms/techniques. Does Adam talk about this more other than in his first videos and on his tone clinic?
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mickil
626 posts
Nov 16, 2009
3:15 AM
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"Does Adam talk about this more other than in his first videos and on his tone clinic?"
Not that I can recall. Having said that, I think that his early YT video on the subject describes the technique as well as it can be described.
Did you watch those other videos? They're easy enough to find. The second one is a pro saying it can take years to get it right, and that he still has to work on it.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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KingoBad
135 posts
Nov 16, 2009
9:01 AM
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Try opening your mouth and throat as wide as you can (try a yawn).
Relax until you are comfortable but still wide open.
Now inhale (still wide open) and say "ack-ack-ack-ack"
Now exhale and do the same thing (sounds kind of like Popeye)
Get used to that feeling in the back of the throat. Now put a harp up to your mouth. Close your mouth around the harp, but keep the mouth and throat wide open.
Try the 2 draw. You will find that the "ack" is more like a "k" when you are actually doing the vibrato playing. k-k-k-k-k.
This should also improve your tone.
You will be able to soften it and change speeds with time. I won't tell you how to do this on the three hole bent, because it is purely magic and can only be achieved through a complicated voodoo ritual.
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2009 9:24 AM
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