e56505
24 posts
Nov 17, 2009
10:11 AM
|
what is the significance of a new comb compared to a stock comb? Im guessing it has to do with being airtight, and if so what would be wrong with putting a light coat of silicone over the comb and letting it set up, and then screw the reed plate and the comb together, creating a gasket between the reed plate and the comb?
|
Buddha
1168 posts
Nov 17, 2009
10:21 AM
|
the composite combs are waterproof and come in cool colors. I also cut the combs thicker than stock combs.
|
e56505
25 posts
Nov 17, 2009
10:33 AM
|
so does it have anything to do with airtightness? (is that even a word?)
|
ElkRiverHarmonicas
328 posts
Nov 17, 2009
10:48 AM
|
On airtightness, as long as the comb is flat, there is no need for any kind of a gasket.
----------
www.elkriverharmonicas.com
|
nacoran
409 posts
Nov 17, 2009
11:23 AM
|
Buddha, what do you use for your composite combs? (I was reading an article by Kinya Pollard talking about some sort of acrylic with aluminum in it.) Do you make combs that you sell separately from harps? (I was thinking of getting some cool combs for Christmas. Maybe I'll have enough money to get one of Elks chestnut ones too!)
|
e56505
26 posts
Nov 17, 2009
11:46 AM
|
ElkRHarmonicas; is it wrong to assume that most stock (new) combs are flat?
|
barbequebob
89 posts
Nov 17, 2009
11:52 AM
|
Many new combs out of the box aren't as flat as you think they are. On unsealed combs, if you took a good, hard lock with a magnifying glass, you can often see saw marks on a wood comb and on the usual ABS plastic combs, many aren't as flat as you would think because they are petroleum based products that are heated into a liquid form first and then poured into an injection mold.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
e56505
27 posts
Nov 17, 2009
12:21 PM
|
Thanks for the good info just wondering has anybody ever used a little silicon on a comb with good results?
|
nacoran
413 posts
Nov 17, 2009
12:25 PM
|
e56505- Actually, that's kind of one of the arguments I've heard against extensively cleaning your harmonica. The more you play it, the more gunk gets in it. The gunk, of course, wants to follow the path of air. It shoots right out the back if it's headed that way, but it also gets pushed into all those little leaks and starts to block them. I think that may be why some people swear by soaking their harps. Sometimes run my plastic combed harps under gentle water and after a couple taps they play great for a few minutes.
|
e56505
28 posts
Nov 17, 2009
12:40 PM
|
That might be a good test to see if the comb is as flat as it needs to be.
Man Im learning alot today.
|
genesis
46 posts
Nov 17, 2009
4:23 PM
|
Nacoran,
The composite combs in Kinyas review are my Corian combs.
I do sell bare combs for any make of harp.
Randy Sandoval
www.genesisharmonicas.net
|
Buddha
1169 posts
Nov 17, 2009
4:32 PM
|
I can make a comb out of anything except dog shit, it's too soft and tastes funny.
I normally use Diamond Wood.
----------
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
|
walterharp
121 posts
Nov 17, 2009
7:25 PM
|
if you look at most reed plates from stock harps after they have been played for a while, you can see the spots where the moisture works between the comb and the reed. so if you don't have the capacity to really flatten plates and combs, there may be some benefit to sealant. How many cases of metal on plastic, or metal on metal in other applications (with the exception of flare fittings) do you see without some sort of sealant or rubber gasket?
I use a very very light coat of food grade silicon grease on the comb right before assembly to help seal things up a bit. Any blobs will collect dirt and dust, so it needs to be used carefully and sparingly.
|
nacoran
421 posts
Nov 17, 2009
10:34 PM
|
genesis, I thought I remembered who made them but I wasn't sure and I didn't know you were he as it were. I've seen your site. I like the look of those combs.
Buddha, did you ever see the Mythbusters episode where they polished balls of shit? I guess there is an Asian art form where people polish balls of dirt and they thought they'd try the next 'logical' step. I wonder if they'd test the myth, 'Tastes like shit'. It might be a hard marketing sell, but since you train dogs... :)
I really do need to try sanding down a comb real well. The wood combs I've played on, Blues Harps and a Blessing Tremolo, have all been rough on my lips, but I'm not sure if that is a) the metal plates that stick out on Blues Harps or b) the really bad sanding job on the Blessing.
There is a stand of small ironwoods growing down in a field at my mother's house. I keep meaning to harvest a little bit and see what it polishes up like.
|
ElkRiverHarmonicas
330 posts
Nov 18, 2009
7:46 AM
|
"ElkRHarmonicas; is it wrong to assume that most stock (new) combs are flat?"
Absolutely. Flatness is one thing customizers do to make a major improvement in a harmonica. It usually makes an improvement similar to embossing. Besides improving response, flattening will make response more even across-the-board.
I'm trying to think of a stock comb I've seen that was flat. Nope. Never seen one.
Most combs are thicker at top, I mean ever so slightly thicker, not enough to notice if you look at it. In the old unsealed prewar days, this made sense. Wood, as it swells, takes the path of least resistance like anything else. So, as the wood swells, it swells inside toward the reedplate first, before it starts swelling up to make a cheese grater, thus, and it's still true with Marine Bands today, a little moisture makes it tighter, a little more makes a cheese grater mouthpiece.
It's also true with non-Marine Band combs, though the difference is not as pronounced. On something like a Golden Melody, Seydel Session or Spec. 20, who knows.. the only way I know to figure out if something is perfectly flat is to sand it on a perfectly flat surface, which you can't really do with that type of construction.
There is one mitigating dynamic, when you draw, it creates a vacuum that can pull the reedplates into the comb. I remember Gussow saying on one of his lessons that harmonicas are more efficient on the draw, that vacuum dynamic is why.
There is not the same vacuum dynamic on the blow. Luckily, the human innards are more efficient on the blow.
You can flat sand any tin-sandwhich type construction, not just wood and it's not just wood that needs it. The flattest combs I can remember were the old handmade Meisterklasse aluminum and the Seydel Silver plastic. In the case of the Seydel Silver, the comb is made of a foamy plastic which crushes a little under the reedplate pressure, so it gets flatter when put together. Still, a little flat sanding does help it out.
On flatsanding, bad flatsanding is worse that no flatsanding. You can screw it up. The sanding surface has to be flat. I use polished granite, but a flat table will pass. You can't push down on the comb, you have to make sure everything is even. THat's why it takes so damn long to do it,if you are doing by hand, but if you rush it, you can make it worse, unflat.
BTW, reedplates aren't flat either. Nor are chromatic slide assemblies. The Seydel chromatic DeLuxe slide assembly isn't very flat, although the Saxony's is. Herings are pretty flat. It's because the brass is punched out, it gets distorted.
On reedplates, they are kind of bowed out, the reedslots being the farthest away from the reedplate... I'm not talking about curvature, but distortion from the punching out. In the case of the 1847, one of its big selling points I thought, that nobody ever seemed to use to sell it was that they came up with this way to punch the reedplate from both sides to minimize that distortion, thus they could bring the slots in, etc.
If you want to make one great harp, you can take out all the reeds on the blow plate, hone it down on a stone with a slurry until it's flat. You can do the draw plate without much trouble.
----------
www.elkriverharmonicas.com
Last Edited by on Nov 18, 2009 7:55 AM
|
e56505
29 posts
Nov 18, 2009
11:29 AM
|
Thanks so much ERH i appreciate it and will work on them combs and reeds
|
nacoran
426 posts
Nov 18, 2009
12:20 PM
|
When you are making a comb does it matter what sized lumber you start with? I have some interesting pieces of tree, but they are small trees, the comb would take up most of the diameter of the wood. Would that cause problems, what with the grains going both ways on either side of the center.
|
barbequebob
97 posts
Nov 18, 2009
12:24 PM
|
Part of it depends if it was cut too close to the knot of the tree. Certain woods can be too hard and/or too brittle for use as a comb for harmonicas and some won't take sealant vey well.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
Bluzdude46
279 posts
Nov 18, 2009
12:36 PM
|
Ok I refuse to research how close my comb was to a knot in a tree there has got to be some sanity among us!!!
|
Bluzdude46
280 posts
Nov 18, 2009
12:38 PM
|
Oh and Buddha, did I specify non dog shit on mine?? can I make that change if not? I mean I know with all the puppies you have a good steady supply ......
|
barbequebob
99 posts
Nov 18, 2009
2:26 PM
|
Bluzdude46, on a long telephone call I had with Rick Epping at Hohner back in the mid 90's, he hipped me to that and said the combs that would usually be quick to swell were the ones cut too close to the knot of the tree and this has been confirmed by more than a few customizers as well as a few carpenters who I told this to when talking about wood that has been fully sealed.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
nacoran
429 posts
Nov 18, 2009
4:49 PM
|
Bob, that's interesting. The thing that got me thinking about it is the theory that Stradivarius sound so good because of a string of cold winters that caused the wood rings to grow particularly slowly, creating particularly dense wood. Of course, if you drool on a Stradivarius you are doing it wrong. Optimum sound may be different than optimum moisture resistance. I wonder if there would be a difference in the density on synthetic combs if they were injection molded or just poured into a mold.
|
ElkRiverHarmonicas
331 posts
Nov 20, 2009
7:56 AM
|
Those American Chestnut combs of mine grew as trees about the same time Stradivarius' wood was growing. But I can't really tell that much of a difference from chestnut that was growing in say the 1300s and chestnut that grew in the 1800s as far as how it grew. The major difference I see in the wood itself is that in the older wood, the winter rings are softer, very soft. The end result is a mix of very hard and very spongy. I attribute that more to the aging of the wood itself.
There's a lot of things that can affect wood density, for instance, a tree that, for some reason, grows at an angle instead of straight up, in its first 20 years or so. Rings on one side are really wide and the other really dense until the tree eventually corrects itself to grow straight up.
----------
www.elkriverharmonicas.com
|
KeithE
61 posts
Nov 20, 2009
8:54 AM
|
Dave - maybe you can get some of Francis Schwarze’s fungus. There's a fungus among us - search for "Fungus-Treated Violin Outdoes Stradivarius" in the news if this makes no sense.
|
Buddha
1177 posts
Nov 20, 2009
9:07 AM
|
I have made some citrus wood combs as well as some from olive wood.
I haven't noticed any tonality differences between any wood or metal. The composite material is best for my applications, cool colours, easy to get in bulk and it's totally stable.
----------
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
|
