The WV Blues Society brought Jason Ricci to The Empty Glass in Charleston WV on Saturday Nov 21, This was my first time to see Jason live. Before the show I cornered Jason and asked him 3 harmonica questions. The answers are paraphrased to the best of my memory
1) Q. When you play your tunes, do you lip purse or tongue block? A. When I'm doing the swing style and want that Chicago blue sound I'm tongue blocking. When I'm doing fast runs I'm lip pursing. In a full set of tunes, I'll end up doing about half tongue blocking and half lip pursing. Tone is not a reason to tongue block. Tone can be the same with either style. 2) Q. How many positions do you use 1st ,2nd 3rd, etc ? A. I use 1st ,2nd,3rd and 12th. I don't do 5th through 11th. (note, I can't remember if he said he uses 4th, but this answer is close enough for me) 3) Q . When you articulate notes, do you use a TA-Ta, or a KAH-KAH A. TA-TA
I want to thank Jason for sharing. He was very friendly and aproachable. I'll write more about what I observed and learned in another thread.
Curious about the old tb v lp holy war thing. I thought that you can get comparable tone with either, just have a decent resonating chamber. Nice to hear Mr Ricci saying something similar. Though, as you say, it is a paraphrase. Next time, bring your dictaphone. Just joking. ---------- YouTube SlimHarpMick
On a C harmonica 12th position is the F major (F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F) or blues scale. I don't recall a lesson off the top of my head but if you can play the F scale on a C harp then you're playing in 12th which for the blues scale means the 4ob or the 6ob. On a C harmonica 12th position starts on 2d" or 5d (or even 9d but there isn't a complete scale up there in 12th).
---------- ~Ryan Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
For 12th position listen to Sonja on Rocket Number 9. It's a major key. If you want to play blues, Ryan, why choose 12th? (for the major scale, you'll need the 6OB, tho) ---------- Kinda hot in these rhinos!
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2009 3:17 AM
I didnt mean to seemingly infer that someone should or would use the blues scale in 12th. Im not really sure why someone would do it.
But 12th major is not the same notes as 3rd major. Playing 1st octave 12th pos is easy but we'd still need 6ob in the 2nd octave to complete that scale.
---------- ~Ryan Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
12th position is tough (as are most of the positions apart from 1st, 2nd and 3rd). But it's a good exercise if you're not sure about your pitches on the 3 draw. An excellent way to get them working.
Is there a system behind this whole position story? I mean: the scales are just a question of intervals between the notes and the position itself determines the starting note of the scale but what's the logic behind the starting note and the position? What's a good approach to learn them?
Oh and while I'm at it: is it easier for you guys too to play the right intervals on the 3 draw going down or is it just me? I find it much harder going up the various scales.
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2009 5:16 AM
I remember talking to Jason a while back about 4th position. I'm a big fan of it, it's my favorite position. I think I remember him saying that he wasn't all that crazy about 4th position, he prefered 5th position for minor stuff.
Did you tell him Dave Payne says hey? ;) ---------- www.elkriverharmonicas.com
"Is there a system behind this whole position story?"
Yes. If you're familiar with a keyboard's layout, this explanation will make more sense:
Picture the white keys, from C to C.
Now go up the scale; you get a pattern:
C to D = a tone
D to E = a tone
E to F = a semitone
So, you've got that pattern: tone tone semitone, or TTS, as it's known for short.
Those first four notes are known as a tetrachord - literally four strings.
Now, do the same thing, but starting on G and going up to C. You get the same pattern: TTS.
Those are the two identical tetrachords that form the major scale. Note how they're cut in half by the tritone, or dioabolus in musica, as it was known in ancient times.
Now, when you go up to 2nd position - assuming C is the starting point - the first tetrachord (G to C) is intact. But, the second one is messed up: you get TST.
That's why F# is the key signature for G major.
And F# C# is the key signature for D major.
You just keep sharpening the 7th degree each time you go up the circle of 5ths - or, each time you go up a position.
Eventually, you end up at C# major with 7 sharps as the key signature.
That's clockwise, but what about the flat, or anticlockwise keys?
When you go down a 5th, you flatten the 4th degree:
F to G = a tone
G to A = a tone
A to Bb = a semitone
Voila: TTS
C to D = a tone
D to E = a tone
E to F = a semitone
There's the 2nd tetrachord.
That would be 12th position on a C harp.
Now, if you keep going anticlockwise and flattening the 4th, you arrive at a point where you have duplicates: Db is the same as C#; these are known as enharmonic equivalents.
Most sane people use whichever one is easier to read - and write - on the page.
Anyway, that is how the positions and the major scales on which they are based are formed.
But, I hear you ask, how does that relate to the blues scale? Well, it only does so in part. You have to bare in mind that, unlike much western music, which is often either major or minor, the blues relies on a predominanely major tonality: the chords on which it is built are usually major triads; But, the melody utilises the tension between major and minor.
That's why Adam teaches his students to waver or slide a little on the blue third. Piano players will often play them simultaneously, then quickly release the minor third. But, THEIR LEFT HAND WILL STILL BE PLAYING MAJOR CHORDS.
I hope that's clear. I don't know how to explain the whole system more succinctly. ---------- YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2009 8:03 AM
It's a lot more simple than all those words sould suggest.
Clockwise: go up a 5th, sharpen the 7th note of the scale to preserve the TTS TTS pattern.
Notice that the second tetrachord of the first position scale forms the first tetrachord of the next position up the circle of fifths. That pattern is constant.
Anticlockwise: go down a 5th and flatten the 4th note of the scale to preserve the TTS TTS pattern.
Notice that the second tetrachord of the first position scale forms the second tetrachord of the next position down the circle of fifths. That pattern is also constant.
12th is not my first pick first for blues. Here at The Harmonica Club (www.theharmonicaclub.com) we use it on a few straight harp tunes. (straight does not always mean first position). The few tunes that come to mind are Lorena, a civil war era balad, and a "gospel" tune called Unclouded Day.
I would define 12th position as a good place for major melodic playing when the bridge or chorus goes to a minor chord, as in Lorena.
I call 12th position "reverse cross",(my term,I have not seen this term used anywhere else) because if the key is C you grab a G harp, just the reverse of cross where if the key is G you grab a C. Most of my 12th position tunes are played in the middle of the harp, holes 4 and above.
Lorena is a great tune. Then, there's those songs that have properties of two keys. Elk River Blues is one that comes to mind, it almost seems to be in, for instance, A, when it's actually in F# minor. That's one reason I tend to think of notes in harps and songs and matching those than thinking in positions. Life would probably be easier for me if I did, but I don't.
I am going to go out on a limb here. I cannot read music and to me a piano keyboard is 88 black and white things. I have read a lot about this position and that position and have heard endless discussion about it. I know a few of them. Curious as to if folks like Little Walter or Sonny Boy (either one ) or other great players of years gone by were well versed on these terms or if they just played. I do not mean to make myself sound ignorant, I am just asking.
I respect the study and dedication that goes into being able to discuss this fluently, make no mistake. I am also not a great player, and maybe it is because I do not pay attention to this a great deal. Just curious.
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2009 3:35 PM
Many of them just played; they didn't learn their art with it being couched in the terms I learnt while studying music.
The truth is, I never think about all that stuff while playing harp; that would kill it for me. I understand what positions are, how they are written on paper, and, how they relate to the circle of fifths.
But, to be honest with you, I never even made any attempt to memorise which notes are which on a harp, or even think about it. Sure, if you put a gun to my head, I could hum up the scale and name the notes, but I never, ever think about it while playing.
It's all about sound and how that sound is tied in to your muscular memory. All that theory stuff can be learnt at any time. Playing is what matters. ---------- YouTube SlimHarpMick
Well, you are one up on me. Someone put a gun to my head and asked me to hum a certain scale, I would be a dead S.O.B. Of course, then my wife could sell the 22 or so harps and the Epiphone Valve Jr amp, cremate me and put my ashes in the Pignose amp box.
Argh, brain cells DO regenerate. It's the circle of fifths. Dang how could I not see it?! Weird how one can overlook the obvious for so long.
@djm I think many of the great players didn't know about the theory. I guess they just played. But believe me: the whole thing starts to make much more sense once you analyze it a bit. Suddenly you begin to understand why certain notes do work in a certain context while others sound "wrong". Another big plus is that you can exploit your harps better. Take a C harp. If you know 1st position you can play it in C. With every additional position you learn you can play in an additional key (2nd: in G / 3rd: in D / 12th: in F etc.). I think that's pretty cool and makes our small instrument much more versatile.
Also as I wrote further up just trying to learn a scale in another position can be quite a learning process - at least it is for me.
@ElkRiver/Dave I told Jason,' Dave said "HEY" 'and Jason said, "I got the message"
@Oliver. The comment on Tongue Block/Chicago Style and tone. The tone of an "individual note" can be the same with tongue blocking and lip pursing. But (in my opinion) the "Chicago sound" has more to do with the chord slaps and chords in general. Chord slaps are a T.B. thing, just like stacato and trill notes are a lip pursing thing.
Thanks Jim for passing that back and forth. I was feeling bad that Jason was an hour and a half away, but I couldn't get down there. Glad he got my message. ---------- www.elkriverharmonicas.com
Adding to my post, try playing 4 blow 4 draw 5 blow 5 draw 6 blow 6 draw 7 blow. Those are ALL notes that work for twelfth position. No overblows or bends at all. Simple enough :)
Hmm I wasn't specific enough: try playing a blues scale in 12th position, starting from the 2 hole. Getting the 3 draw exactly in tune is the tricky part.
