CJames
20 posts
Nov 23, 2009
1:55 AM
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I just purchased a Big river harp in C off Ebay, found it was probably the worst out-of-box harp i've got - all the reeds were really unresponsive, after a bit of light modding (gapping/embossing etc) i found it was improved a slight bit but no real change. I'm no pro at modifications but i know how to make a harp sound better. I was wondering if anyone else had thoughts on this particular harp - good or bad. I was kinda led to believe it would have a bigger sound which it didn't. I know its the cheapest of the upper quality hohners, but still...
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Tryharp
256 posts
Nov 23, 2009
4:22 AM
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I bought one a couple of years ago, and my experience was exactly the same as yours.
Tryharp
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RyanMortos
489 posts
Nov 23, 2009
4:45 AM
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Not tried one myself but Im sure they're fine. Im just not into reeds from the m.s. system, I think.
Pretty sure Adam plays a big river for a certain key harmonica.
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~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
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Andrew
763 posts
Nov 23, 2009
4:47 AM
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I've often thought of buying one, 'cos they're cheap, and there's even a Jason video where he says they're not bad, but you guys have certainly put me off!
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
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mickil
643 posts
Nov 23, 2009
4:48 AM
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It's probably my favoutite sounding harp: loud, brassy, with a lovely trebly sound - cos of the vents, I suppose.
The thing about OOTB harps is that they're often hit or miss. I've lost count of the times I've read about - and written - bad stuff about just about every harp under the Sun.
Given the inconsistent quality standards that exist - admittedly, from some manufacturers more than others - if you like them then stick with them. The replacement reed plates are as cheap as chips and easily available. With a little gapping, they can be made less 'sucky'.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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kudzurunner
802 posts
Nov 23, 2009
4:59 AM
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I played a Big River key of Db for many years, because I had one song in that key that I liked to sing. It's just as mickil says: loud, brassy, trebly. It had huge gaps on the blow reeds, so in order to overblow I had to close them way down. Then it was pretty responsive, as off-the-shelf harps go.
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toddlgreene
176 posts
Nov 23, 2009
5:20 AM
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I had an unjustified grudge against even trying one, thinking it was a cheapie, and I'd hate it. Recently I played one that had been modded, and I thought it played just fine. Since I've been moving more into at-least-somewhat customized harps(I'm spoiled!), anything OOTB doesn't please me much, at least of the ones I own already. I'd put a Big River that had been at least gapped in by case as a backup.
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~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
"listen to what you like for inspiration, but find your own voice"
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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Tuckster
270 posts
Nov 23, 2009
8:04 AM
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I just got 2,Ab & Eb. I don't play in those keys often,so I wanted something cheap. Eb was fine OOTB,but Ab was gapped wide and quite leaky.I closed down the gaps on the draw,but not the blow. It helped,but I need to do the blow to get it better. I don't think BR's are as bad as some people think. As above,loud and brassy. Basically Marine Band covers,right?
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mickil
645 posts
Nov 23, 2009
8:16 AM
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Yeah, Tuckster. As bbqbob was saying the other day, the covers are identical to the old MB MS. There are some pictures of that on Pat Missin's website:
http://www.patmissin.com/ffaq/q38.html
I too think they're given an unfair press. Perhaps the reeds aren't given the due care and attention we'd like from the factory, but, about £12.95 + £1.50 P&P can fix that.
Actually, I've got a couple of Antony Danecker Big Rivers withe the Meisterklasse reed plates; they are pretty tasty. £35 each, I think.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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Buddha
1190 posts
Nov 23, 2009
8:22 AM
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At SPAH Hohner had Big River Harps for $5.00 so I bought four of them and tweaked them out for my own gigging purposes. They aren't as good as Marine Bands but they are plenty good for me and what I do.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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mr_so&so
241 posts
Nov 23, 2009
8:23 AM
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I have to comment on this one. I too like the sound of them, and I've purchased a bunch over the years. Some are good OOTB, and some are terrible. My G harp is so hard to play, that even after fiddling with the gaps, it caused me to give up on them completely for a while and go back to Marine Bands (which I then had to learn to seal, etc.).
Then, a few weeks ago, I picked up my Big River in C and starting having a lot of fun with it again. What I like about them is that they are very, very durable. I've never blown one out, and I used to play my Bb every day for over a year. I also use them when I'm on my winter walks and don't worry about ruining them.
Upshot: They are a durable and good-sounding harp, and cheap enough that if you get one that is really bad, you can just try again, or try some adjustments and not worry about wrecking it. I also recommend adjusting the gaps right away in any case.
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toddlgreene
180 posts
Nov 23, 2009
8:25 AM
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5 bucks? Damn, the last time I paid that for a playable harp was probably around '91 for an American Ace...
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~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
"listen to what you like for inspiration, but find your own voice"
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2009 8:26 AM
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Andrew
764 posts
Nov 23, 2009
8:27 AM
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Yeah, in the UK, they're closer to 30 bucks, so it makes more sense to buy a MB instead.
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2009 8:28 AM
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mr_so&so
242 posts
Nov 23, 2009
8:34 AM
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In Canada, I'm paying about 18 "Queenbacks", which is not bad.
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RyanMortos
491 posts
Nov 23, 2009
8:40 AM
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At 5$ a harp I woulda filled out my missing keys with them!
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~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
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jawbone
162 posts
Nov 23, 2009
2:14 PM
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I don't like the "feel" of the BG but I like the sound and they are cheap(er). I buy them, then cut the reed plates down and modify them to fit Bluesmaster combs and covers. I may emboss them a little to tighten them up. I know this sounds silly, but I can do this faster than I can retune the suzy's and (now don't you go yelling at me BBQB, I really am working at this) - but they don't choke like the Suzy's and Delta Frost will if you hit 'em too hard, which I hardly ever do, just now and then when my hormones run wild and the girls get dancing - like I said I'm working on it!!
I can buy Big Rivers for about $20 up here, which is a bit less than the MS replacement plates.
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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Aussiesucker
445 posts
Nov 23, 2009
2:45 PM
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In one word -garbage.
I bought one in A and without doubt it is the worst harp I have ever bought. It leaked so bad it was like blowing through a picket fence. I pulled it apart and micropored the comb but it made no difference. I threw it in the bin.
Frankly, a company like Hohner in selling these cheap junky harps is doing itself a real diservice. If it was the first harp you had bought you would probably have given up learning to play and would purchase no more harps & certainly not Hohner.
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nineveh_harp
11 posts
Nov 23, 2009
2:59 PM
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I try not to make judgements on harps OOTB because they are, in fact, hit or miss... all the time. I like to set the harp up the way I like and break it in first. That said, I have several Big Rivers and I like them a lot! Straight out of the box, they are pretty rough, but I've yet to buy one I was totally unsatisfied with. Out of all the MS harps I really like this one the best. It's comfortable and it's cheap... the Big River is cheaper than the MS replacable reedplates... so it's a no-brainer for me! I like 'em!
-Sam
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mickil
649 posts
Nov 23, 2009
3:54 PM
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Aussie,
"I bought one in A and without doubt it is the worst harp I have ever bought..."
I wouldn't judge 'em on just one duff harp. I've got about half a dozen or so, and one is a bit sucky; probably needs gapping.
I wouldn't dream of trying to dictate your choice of harp, but - oops, that's always an iffy conjunction - did you play it much, if it was at all playable?
They have an incredible tone. I shoved the covers on a Bb Blues Harp, and it's one bloody gorgeous sounding harp. I know that MS harps are given a bit of a bad press, but, the more I read on here, the more it is I get the impression that you just have to pranny around a bit with the gapping. Or maybe, if they play like crap, you just have to tighten the reed plate screws a bit. I've read in more than one place that people have had to do that with Hering 1923s.
Still, I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I'm just saying that they shouldn't be dismissed without at least some experimentation. No law about it, just a contribution for CJames to consider.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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Aussiesucker
446 posts
Nov 23, 2009
4:29 PM
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Mickil >
Hear what you say. My Big River was not at all playable. My judgement wasn't on one duff harp ie it was an overall Hohner experience.
Not all of us are into tweaking harps ie it's not my bag and I would quickly stuff up anything I touch. If this is your interest then you probably can get a half decent harp out of anything.
The point I make is why are they not playable out of the box? I have found this to be more of a Hohner problem ie worst was the Big River but I have also had shoddy SP20s. Early on I also bought some keys of Hohner Silver Stars ie I found them just as junky as the Big River. I have always had great success with Suzuki & Lee Oskar harps.
A more important point is that music shops over here stock predominently Hohner and carry lots of their cheaper harps ie Silver Stars & Big Rivers. One can only presume these are the harps that first timers get sold and get pissed off with and quickly give up on learning to play? It's a gross disservice for such a large company like Hohner to sell products that are IMHO more suited to toy shops. How many future harp players are lost forever by getting the wrong instrument?
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LittleJoeSamson
141 posts
Nov 23, 2009
4:46 PM
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These are junk. Can't play them hard.
I have a student with MD that plays extremely soft, almost imperceptible, that loves his BR harp.
For him, at extreme low pressure, this harp is good.
For anyone else, it's crap.
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mickil
651 posts
Nov 23, 2009
4:56 PM
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Aussie,
I hear you. Hopefully, the competition will kick 'em into shape. I hope so. They do make some lovely harps... sometimes.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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Aussiesucker
447 posts
Nov 23, 2009
6:08 PM
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Mickil>
Yes they do. I have a SP20 in Bb which is fabulous, and I have a low D, E & F. But I have others in other keys which I don't care to use as they don't match anything put out by Suzuki.
I just wish Suzuki would offer a greater range ie Low keys and special tunings.
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CJames
21 posts
Nov 23, 2009
7:14 PM
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I guess that definately straightens things up, Maybe i did get a dud but things like that can't be avoided. Does anyone have any personal tips on airtightening? Tuckster, the Marine band covers are slightly smaller and have larger vents, plus the back space has more room for the sound to boom out of. I'm in the stage of still finding the best harp for me, having only tried hohners and lee oskars. In the hohner range I only need to play a special 20 now (i started on my fathers 30 odd year old one and gather it's not the same now). Im quite sure i may end up sticking to Golden Melodys though. Any thoughts on Suzukis? i'm buying a suzuki scx 48 chromatix harp a bit later on but thought I mite try a diatonic first
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oldwailer
952 posts
Nov 23, 2009
11:15 PM
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If you put a new comb in--emboss the reed slots, tune a little--etc--they become very nice harps. I prefer the shape of the covers to Marine Bands--but the sound of the MB will win every time.
The $5 harps at SPAH were in the keys of low Eb and low F# only. I scored a couple of them and customized them--I keep them around because they are fun to play, but I don't really use those keys much. . .
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Ant138
192 posts
Nov 24, 2009
2:46 AM
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I have one Big river in the key of D and it's the worst harp i own.
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Andrew
766 posts
Nov 24, 2009
3:23 AM
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But isn't the key of D a tricky one? Ive not been too happy with my two MBs in D and my LO in D was awful.
I've got MB and MBD in A, and I'm thinking of getting a GM and a BR in A for comparison.
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
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CJames
22 posts
Nov 24, 2009
6:18 AM
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I have a GM in D, absolutely beautiful - I hardly had to mod it at all, just for overblows mainly
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CJames
23 posts
Nov 24, 2009
6:24 AM
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I have a GM in D, absolutely beautiful - I hardly had to mod it at all, just for overblows mainly. I think C seems to be a dodgy one for me, I got the Blues Harp and big river harp both in C and theyre not very good, maybe I've just got a grudge against MS systems!
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Pluto
18 posts
Nov 24, 2009
7:16 AM
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Say what you will about Big Rivers. Its all Paul Delay played. Because of that I forced myself to play them. It took getting used to. They seem to take more wind, and some need tweeking. Some of the covers don't fit tight enough, and need to be sanded flat. Now I can't play a marine band. In fact I think they're terrible. And they cost too much for what they are.
I've even switched out the heavier MS plates once the the old ones go. They have a different playing quality and sound, but in the lower keys they really boom. When playing in F I always use a Big River low F.
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congaron
302 posts
Nov 24, 2009
9:39 AM
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Cheap, easily tweakable...I only have one, but like the concept. Here's what I did. I put the covers of a big river in F# onto my favorite blues harp in C. Now it sounds very marine band-like in tone, but not tuning.
The big river harp was VERY leaky, but not in the comb. I tweaked a few reeds and it plays great. SO I feel like I got a better c harp and a playable f# harp to help me with high harp technique. I even found jam tracks in Ab and F# since i bought it. I doubt I'll ever use it in the band, but you never know.
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 9:40 AM
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gmacleod15
20 posts
Nov 24, 2009
5:00 PM
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The BR was my first harp and last BR. Not for beginners for sure. I still have it but never play it. I would never recommend one. I am an out of the box player and for my money I like the suzuki bluesmaster. I still own and play SP20s, MBs and LOs but they are my seconds.
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gmacleod15
21 posts
Nov 24, 2009
5:00 PM
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The BR was my first harp and last BR. Not for beginners for sure. I still have it but never play it. I would never recommend one. I am an out of the box player and for my money I like the suzuki bluesmaster. I still own and play SP20s, MBs and LOs but they are my seconds.
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snakes
402 posts
Nov 25, 2009
12:37 PM
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I have purchased one BR in my days of trying to test all models. I will have to say that I didn't like the thickness of mine (key of A) so much, but it played better than some of the OOTB MB's I purchased. Suzuki's are my brand, but if I had to play Hohner and never got into modifying my own harps I'd probably play SP20's and Big Rivers. Of course I have only tried one.
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