GermanHarpist
711 posts
Nov 27, 2009
10:47 PM
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A friend of mine started harping a short while ago. Like everybody else he bought a Blues Harp in C to start off with. When he came over I checked the Blues Harp out,... but no, impossible to "blues" on this harp. It was one of the worst harps I have ever played. So when he left I gave him one of my Harpmasters for now and told him that I'd have a look at this piece of **** harp.
When I opened it up I had an awesome LOL moment.
This is the comb:
There is some kind of capillary grain which is filled with pretty soft wood/material. This texture is pretty much horizontal. I.e. when the comb is cut the soft part of the grain is removed leaving some kind of creases. Now, the texture goes from left to right - this means that you have little creases that go over the whole tine, from one hole to the other.
Here is another picture:
You can see, that this capillary grain actually goes right trough the whole comb (from top to bottom). So sanding it down won't help.
There might be a lot more wrong with the harp, but this is just funny as hell.
I have one other Blues Harp myself that I never play because it is so crappy. So I opened it up and surprise, surprise, exactly the same problem although I had bought it way back.
Did any one of you have the same problem, and how would you solve it?
Hahaha, I can't stop laughing. 8-O
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germanharpist on YT. =;-)
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Andrew
781 posts
Nov 28, 2009
12:27 AM
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The second photo is very good. You should send it to Hohner.
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
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CJames
36 posts
Nov 28, 2009
1:22 AM
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I got a blues harp in G for my first as well, they are pretty crappy
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2009 8:34 AM
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Gwythion
23 posts
Nov 28, 2009
2:31 AM
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I like these harps once I've sealed them all first.
It's a shame these products have to have such a lot of work: sealing, gapping, tuning, embossing.
The MS harps would have been a good product if Hohner had taken more care in their manufacture.
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LIP RIPPER
138 posts
Nov 28, 2009
3:21 AM
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I have a friend that bought his Dad one as a gift. I used the Elk River Dave butcher block dipping technique followed by the typical reed massaging and it was fine. I think the wood is african dousie wood. I may have the spelling wrong.
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mickil
663 posts
Nov 28, 2009
5:16 AM
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I had one in D whose 3 draw was unbendable. I binned it. I've got another in Bb with Big River covers on it, and it's my favourite harp - I prefer it to my 1847s!
People often talk about MS harps being leaky and unplayable, which happens. Still, the more I learn from here and other places, the more I get the impression that it's mostly a case of lazy gapping by Hohner than anything else.
I mean, people talk about the MS plasic combed harps being leaky. How on Earth can that happen? A three mile wide reed gap will make that happen.
I'm not a harp tinkerer, I hate doing it. I've only just started messing with my reeds, and only if it's absolutely necessary. So, someone please tell me if I'm talking a load of old tosh.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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Scoltx
56 posts
Nov 28, 2009
6:00 AM
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I was experimenting by putting some Big River covers on a BH to try and get it sounding a little more Marine Bandish. When I took my BH in A apart a few of the tines just sort of disintegrated. I was left with little chunks of wood and some wood dust.
I had been buying a few "old stock" BH's after I heard about an up coming price hike. So it may have been a really old (dry) one. I haven't taken any of the others apart and haven't bought any more BH's. I got my hands on a MB Deluxe and I'm pretty happy with it OOTB. I usually like to buy my harps locally and the MBD just isn't readily available in stores in my neck of the woods (around London Ontario).
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jbone
216 posts
Nov 28, 2009
6:49 AM
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i used to seal with molten bees wax. it does a pretty good job but can be dangerous and messy.
i am not much for messing with reeds past a regap here or there. i had some very good times playing big river harps, but recent price increases have caused me to shy away from them. the ms plates are thicker than stock and can be blown out easier unless one uses appropriate breath focus. the big river can sound awesome.
i have some mb's and bh's on my bench, sealed but with now-dead reeds. i am considering my next step with them as i know many players really favor the mb. i may bite the bullet and begin to learn to at least tweak reeds and replace dead ones. so far it has been less hassle to just buy a new harp when one goes out.as prices rise and money becomes scarce, it may make sense to learn a deeper level of harp work.
that bh comb in the picture is the sorriest comb i've ever seen.
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apskarp
66 posts
Nov 28, 2009
7:12 AM
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I have a pretty good Hohner Blues Harp, but I have sanded, sealed, embossed and gapped it so that I can OB it. I think I might have been lucky with it, but it wasn't so leaky to begin with. (Actually it was the first harp I ever bought so I can't be sure as I wasn't skilled enough to judge it .) However, I can see little bit same kind of thing there as in those pictures..
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mickil
665 posts
Nov 28, 2009
8:12 AM
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Some less experienced players might think from your post that you've got to do all that stuff to get OBs. I can get a passable 6OB on most of my harps - well, those above A. Just one of them I re-gapped a smidge.
I'm not being funny, I'm just saying to newer players that that kind of work isn't always necessary.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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jonsparrow
1350 posts
Nov 28, 2009
9:19 AM
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i never got a blues harp cause well...its called a blues harp. clearly a marketing gimmick. thats like buying a guitar called rock and roll guitar. lol
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LeonStagg
42 posts
Nov 28, 2009
9:25 AM
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Good point Mickil,
I've got a couple of slightly tweaked harps that will overlow on 6&7. Still a work in progress to improve.
Own a few BHs and BRs, come back to them every now and then, not my favorites, but I play them pretty often.
I don't know.....I kinda like this deal here.
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blogward
23 posts
Nov 28, 2009
1:34 PM
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Get a Golden Melody. Sorted.
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GEEZER1
8 posts
Nov 28, 2009
4:17 PM
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Certain Brand Harps have brand loyalty no matter how crappy they are... I bought one of those gold plated marine bands a few years back it was made for some kind of anniversary if I remember, worse harp I have, and that includes johnsons. haungs and other assorted harps, why buy something you have to completely rebuild to get it to play decent... Its still mint, might be a collectable some day who knows
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scstrickland
316 posts
Nov 28, 2009
5:31 PM
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I use Blues Harps and love them. I don't care what they are called,they work for me. Like Mickil I'll occasionally put Big River covers on mine. I do seal them with bees wax, and as with anything else practice makes you better so I rarely have a problem with danger (Don't set your stove to High unless your boiling water) or mess (use newspaper).
This sounds like the same old argument - "OOTB harps suck, I wish they would make one with consistent quality!" - In my mind they do, Buddha builds them and Brad Harrison will be selling them. You will just have to pay for what you get.
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2009 5:33 PM
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GermanHarpist
713 posts
Nov 28, 2009
10:57 PM
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scstrickland, if you like it, have at it. However, did you open it up? Does it look the same as on the pics? My criticism was, that this particular part of the wood block and the orientation that it was cut out was pretty much the worst possible choice they could have made... it just stunned me.
I don't think the reed plates are any better or worse than most of the others. And the name... well, they're all printed with some marketing choice. Whatever it may be... if you look at it: Pro Harp, the "Fabulous", 1847,... they're all meaningless marketing gimmicks and cover plates always were.
So, I don't think Blues Harps are bad harps in general. However, I will replace the comb and experiment with cover plates... let's see what it gives.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-)
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apskarp
67 posts
Nov 28, 2009
11:21 PM
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Mickil, I can get OB6 out of almost any one of my harps without twekaing. But with other holes I can't. Gapping is in my experience required for most of the harps in order that I can OB them. But that's because I'm not very experienced in OB's.
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scstrickland
317 posts
Nov 29, 2009
8:21 AM
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I have opened mine. I don't remember them looking so rough, But it doesn't matter I do the Dave Payne sandpaper thing and bees wax does the rest. I dont put too much stock on the material of the come or how much it leaks, I think good tone come from practice and the less you tinker with the harps and the more you play them the better.
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
337 posts
Nov 30, 2009
11:10 AM
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Disclaimer: I think they suck.
But,
I don't think that appearance of roughness is why it leaks, it's more from the overall comb not being flat... one part being thicker than another.
That capillary grain is there on purpose. They don't swell nearly as bad as Marine Bands and as long as you don't dunk it in water or drool all day in the thing, it doesn't swell badly at all. That grain also adds a degree of crushability, as in the comb itself crushes slightly when pressure is applied from the reedplates, thus making it tighter, this is magnified more when it gets damp and starts swelling... it kind of swells inside the wood, cause there is room, instead of pouring over the top of the reedplates like pearwood.
All this is in theory and it looks good on paper. In real life, as you noticed, it doesn't always work out that way. If the comb were flat sanded, it might, but might not play much better. A lot of the problems with the MS Series is in the reedplates. They are just all around mediocre.
To Solve: flat sand comb on a piece of wet/dry sandpaper on a block granite or something... maybe seal it. Check to make sure the reedplates (when off) are bent just a little concave... torque is applied tio the reedplate screws starting from the center out... might help, although you can't make a silk purse from a sow's teet.
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www.elkriverharmonicas.com
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isaacullah
469 posts
Nov 30, 2009
12:19 PM
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After you sand it following Daves advice EXACTLY, then soak it in mineral oil for a couple of days. Before you reassemble it, rub the comb once over with some chapstick (lip protector stuff, I use Burts Bees). This will fill any and all gaps remaining after sanding.
These harps need/take a lot of work. I've found that you can turn them around and make them decent though. The worst thing I've seen on one of these harps OOTB was that a 6 blow reed had been factory tuned so much that a HOLE was rubbed through the tip of the reed. They obviously use some sort of rotary tool, and this reed was so over-sanded that they just wore right through the reed. And of course, this got right through Hohner's "quality control unit", who, I assume, is a blind and deaf old man with early-onset Alzheimers.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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barbequebob
142 posts
Nov 30, 2009
3:12 PM
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The reason why Hohner used doussie for the combs for the MS series (the blues Harp and the MS Marine Band, which was only issued in Europe, and long discontinued as most pros hated them, and the putting BR cover plates on the MS Blues Harps is, in fact the same thing as an MS Marine Band, just different inscription on the top cover plate) was that they didn't want to be bothered to seal the combs, which many pros have asked them to do so for decades, and it's a hard, brittle wood, and I personally don't care for them.
A better wood comb is the one that Mark Lavoie makes for those that are laser cut maple, and fully sealed with beeswax and they run for about $18.00 US each and they allow for up to 5 reed plate screws, wheras with the doussie, only 2.
I'm personally not a fan of the MS series (except for the cases that they come in), but the ones I have are a combination of the BR cover plates, Cross Harp reed plates, and the Lavoie maple comb.
Hohner only allows 5 minutes per entire harmonica for tuning, which since the families of those old tuners they had working there with pitch perfect hearing retired and other family members told them to take a hike with the wages they were paying them, and ever since they started going to the comprimise tunings, there's been such a lack of consistency that it drives me nuts. When they used to be all tuned in either just intonation (with the exception of the GM and solo tuned harps, which ar tuned ET), they were really consistent with their tuning. BTW, those old guys only used their ears and a reference plate, and NO strobe tuner to do that.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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