Delta Dirt
57 posts
Dec 02, 2009
6:54 PM
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Does anybody know all the names of the Crystal mic elements and if so which one should i buy?
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jonsparrow
1380 posts
Dec 02, 2009
10:30 PM
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personally i wouldnt buy one. they seem to break alot. an i think they sound thinner then cr elements.
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MrVerylongusername
666 posts
Dec 02, 2009
11:37 PM
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The reason they sound thinner is because their impedance is huge - up to 5 million Ohms -generally higher than even the high input impedance of most guitar amps. When there is a mismatch it is the bottom end that drops out. This is why the boutique amps often have a dedicated crystal input. If your amp doesn't, a good amp-tech will be able to do a simple mod to the existing input, or you can build a DIY buffer (discussed in another thread somewhere).
As for Astatic crystals, they are harder and harder to source now. They are fragile and good ones are like hen's teeth. An MC151 (the standard JT30 crystal) is well over $150 now and could die on you for any of the following reasons: physical shock (e.g. dropping the mic), extreme heat, cold and high humidity. If you can find one, get a ceramic element (MC127) They are more robust, but have very similar tonal qualities. They will set you back more money, but the element will last longer.
Erica's JT30 store has nos MC151 elements for $150.
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jbone
222 posts
Dec 03, 2009
4:27 AM
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i'm lucky to have an mc151 in a mic. yes they are fragile but this just causes me to take more care with this mic. the tonal qualities are clean and warm, and while it's true that the bottom end is somewhat lacking, with the right amp a crystal can sing like a bird. i find it very useful for recording with amp and for 3rd position chromatic harp work.
i also have a ceramic, i think a mc127, that i find to be more dry and lifeless. i will put it in a shell soon and put it through the paces again soon to see if that's just me or if it is indeed less responsive and less tasty tone-wise.
my best all-around mic features a dynamic/cm element. i could actually throw the mic into a wall and i believe it would still perform afterwards. very tough housing and a cm is near indestructible.
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Bluzdude46
296 posts
Dec 03, 2009
7:03 AM
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I'm with you on the CM elements, Jbone. I have an American 99B86 in a small brown bullet shell. I've dropped it (I used to drink alot) numbers of times and it still keeps cranking dark brown warm tone It is one of the few mics I own that is without a doubt NOT for sale....ever. I've had 3 crystal element mics and 2 elements failed and one never did sound right. I have a little sonotone ceramic that is sweet, I use it when I'm sitting in on friends set and can go right to the board and get decent tone.
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Delta Dirt
59 posts
Dec 03, 2009
4:41 PM
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Ive got a Chuck Gurney Black CM and CR but would like to try a Crystal in this Sonny Cruncher. Both are nasty in this amp.It has made playing fun again.
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rbeetsme
59 posts
Dec 03, 2009
5:54 PM
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I have 2 crystals, 1 is an original shure mounted in a bullet, R7?, the other is a Turner, I believe they used Brush elements. I like them both, good bottom, nice tone. Not as hot as my CR but close.
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eharp
367 posts
Dec 04, 2009
4:18 PM
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one is named james.
lol
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Gwythion
26 posts
Dec 04, 2009
5:42 PM
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Does anyone know whereabouts the Crystal mic-to-amp matching gizmo that Mr V mentioned is on the site?
I've used the Search and the Archive list but can't find it.
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Greg Heumann
179 posts
Dec 05, 2009
8:42 AM
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Some crystal facts:
The Shure and Astatic crystals were all made under license from Brush Corporation which held the patents.
Not only can temperature, humidity and shock hurt a crystal, playing can too. With a REALLY strong cupping technique you can hyper-extend the diaphragm and break or stress the connection between the diaphragm and crystal. I have a Shure R7 crystal that plays with fabulous tone but every time you draw hard it cuts out. It is near death.
I've heard rumors that there's a guy somewhere who can fix a crystal element but I've searched and never found this mystical beast. I've dissected crystal elements and know how they're made. A proper repair would require access to some special machinery AND a source of the original crystals themselves. I don't know if either still exist.
I have some good strong MC-151's available but as has been said their prices are soaring. Brush and Shure crystals are even rarer. If you try to buy one on eBay (as I do) you will find that about 90% of what you get will already be on the downslide, with reduced output and tone. This is why those of us reputable folks in the biz have to charge so much for good elements - we eat a lot of bad ones.
As mentioned Shure CR and CM elements are nearly bullet proof, and can even be rebuilt - which is why, thankfully, more of them are still available and prices are a little more stable.
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/Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com
http://www.BlueStateBand.net
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bluestate
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barbequebob
169 posts
Dec 05, 2009
9:36 AM
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Even when I could get the crystals brand new from Astatic in the 70's, they all varied in output, with some being OK, and some almost too hot to use, and finding that rochelle salt they used, good luck to you!
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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mrdon46
18 posts
Dec 05, 2009
10:29 AM
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Gwythion--here's a link to a discussion of the Jayphat, a diy impedance buffer that will help get the best tone from a crystal mic--there's a link to the schematic there: http://www.harp-l.org/pipermail/harp-l/2008-July/msg00533.html. If you build one of these I'd suggest giving it 2 outputs so you have the option of going into 2 amps--the Jayphat provides a signal boost which compensates for any weakening of the signal from splitting it. If you do this I'd also suggest lifting the ground on one of the outputs by running the signal through a small transformer--this will eliminate any ground loop problems. Another option (if you use effects) is to run your mic signal through a harp-specific pedal such as a Lone Wolf Harp Delay or any of their pedals--they all provide a 5 meg impedance.
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2009 10:31 AM
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walterharp
142 posts
Dec 05, 2009
10:58 AM
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i have the lone wolf tone + and that particular pedal really helps bring out the full glory of crystal elements... more so than CR.
the impedance bosting of the lone wolf delay helps some, but not as much as the tone+ helps the sound
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Maciekdraheim
49 posts
Dec 05, 2009
2:22 PM
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I've got a question to Greg about the possibility of hurting a crystal by strong breathing and tight cup. Does the same can occur with ceramic element? I've got a vintage ceramic Astatic with great tone and good output. I have developed a tight cup (ex. when playing unamplified I can get additional reeds to vibrate) so can I hurt my Astatic with it?
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Gwythion
27 posts
Dec 05, 2009
4:10 PM
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Thanks a lot, Mr Don. That's marvellous. There's a wealth of info there.
Thanks for your comment, also, Walter.
Cheers!
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2009 4:14 PM
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htownfess
1 post
Dec 05, 2009
4:59 PM
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<>
Greg, bbharpy in Europe used to repair them but no longer does:
http://www.harp-l.org/pipermail/harp-l/2007-September/msg00160.html
Joe Spiers figured out how to fix the kind of crystal failure that might be termed "dislocation," where the crystal gets dislodged from its receptacle in the element casting but is otherwise intact. He had to charge $20 to open it for diagnosis & then additional $20 charge if it was actually dislocated/fixable, IIRC. Not enough takers so he stopped offering the service.
<>
By "connection," do you mean the metal actuating pin, or the adhesive that affixes the pin to the diaphragm? The latter ought to be fixable.
DD, crystals are not as fragile as some people think, but you have to develop habits of storing and holding them, and keep the overall impedance load on the mic element up to a minimum standard (2 Meg overall gets you most of what you're going to get). Buy an MC-151 from someone reliable like Greg, learn the care & feeding drill, and consider the thing more expendable than your Shures.
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htownfess
2 posts
Dec 05, 2009
5:01 PM
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Oops, it doesn't like the quotation style I tried. I was referring to Greg's fourth and third paragraphs, in that order--
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Greg Heumann
181 posts
Dec 05, 2009
6:53 PM
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@aciekdraheim - I've never opened a ceramic but I believe they are very similar to crystals - just a ceramic thing instead of a rochelle salt crystal that the diaphragm is connected to. So I would expect the same thing can happen.
@htownfess - by connection I mean the joint between the pin coming down from the diaphragm and the crystal itself. When too much stress is placed on that connection, it either breaks at the glue joint or the crystal disintegrates.
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/Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com
http://www.BlueStateBand.net
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bluestate
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Bluzdude46
302 posts
Dec 07, 2009
6:01 AM
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I Believe, and I have limited knowledge of Crystal Mics and own 1 ceramic mic. But a ceramic takes less damage from moisture and temperature then does a crystal. The downside is that a ceramic is not quite as bottom end gritty as a crystal. I love my lil sonotone stick it's small and bright but will never ever be accused of being a Dirty Chicago type sound. I can plug it directly into PA cut the treble boost the mids a little and the bottom alot and get good clear representation of my acoustic tone with some nice bottom shaping. That is it. It's not the perfect mic but it has it's uses.
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