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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Rick Estrin and African American culture
Rick Estrin and African American culture
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kudzurunner
832 posts
Dec 03, 2009
4:05 AM
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My new BluesWax e-Zine just hit my inbox and I was struck by the end of an interview with Rick Estrin. Very funny interview; among other things, he talks about the problem of needing to take a s--t when you're on the gig, and why you shouldn't do that in the club you're playing.
Anyway, here's an extract. I'll consider this fair use. I'd encourage you to subscribe. (Google Blueswax.)
BW: What do you think it was about you that got you so interested in African American culture at an age and complexion that was very dangerous?
RE: Yeah, I think at first some of the little incidents that stand out in my mind, like when I first got into junior high school which I guess I was twelve, right? In California, or at least in San Francisco, junior high school was seventh, eighth and ninth grade, and my birthday is on October. So I'm just on the cusp of the gill. So I guess I was eleven or twelve when I got into junior high, and they started bussing them. Prior to that, it was a pretty blended school to begin with, but when they started bussing from Hunter's Point and stuff, it became sixty percent black and I can remember this girl I knew, she was in my homeroom. She was named Sandra Price, and she was really cool.
I can remember her watching this guy Marvin Deacy walking down the hall. He was a real good looking dude, kind of looked Ethiopian, you know, and she was watchin' him walk down the hall, and she goes, "Ooh, he got the cutest little walk," and I had never - white people don't really think too much about how attractive some - it just didn't seem like anything that was within my experience to hear somebody comment on how cute somebody's walk was. Maybe when you get older you'd hear a guy talk about a woman the way a woman walks, maybe! But there was just something that seemed so much more - uh - expressive and alive about those people, and then I was getting into that music, and it just seemed so much richer to me and so - I mean, just everything all the way down the line.
White people - after a while when I was really into it - can't dance, can't box, can't play basketball, can't play music, can't sing. All that cool shit was - and also just they were so creative in their personal style and all that stuff. I don't know. That's beautiful culture, and I think American can you imagine what a boring place this would be hard it not been for the African people that got kidnapped or sold and brought here. Slavery was a horrible thing, but in the end sure benefitted our culture.
BW: How hard was it to ingratiate yourself into that environment at that young an age?
RE: Well, by the time I started goin' - when I started goin' to clubs I was probably seventeen, and I started goin' out to black clubs, and somehow intuitively I knew that I should go by myself. I didn't know any other white people that were interested in goin', but even a little later on when I knew some other guys were into Blues or whatever I would always go by myself, and I think that was a good thing. That worked in my favor because they might have looked at me weird like, "What are ya doing' here." But after a while it was, "You must just wanna be here!" I can remember later on, especially when I was living in Chicago, being in a black club, and you'd see little groups of white people comin', and there was almost like a conspiratorial aspect to it, you know? So I never had that. I think that gave me better acceptance. Then, too, back then, when I would get up and play and sing, I was blowin' minds back then because it was such a freakish thing for a white guy to be doing.
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Andrew
789 posts
Dec 03, 2009
6:14 AM
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"he talks about the problem of needing to take a s--t when you're on the gig, and why you shouldn't do that in the club you're playing."
Whereas Iggy Pop would just take a dump behind the speaker stack!
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
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MrVerylongusername
667 posts
Dec 03, 2009
6:55 AM
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Let me open by saying I love Rick Estrin as a player and an entertainer, I also love the Blues Brothers and Jar Jar Binks!
...but I think I understand Adam's motivation for posting this here. If I could summarise Mr Estrin's words...
Black people are cool and white people are square. Aspiring to coolness, I have become an honorary black man and wear the badge with pride.
Slavery may have been a 'horrible thing [that] benefitted our culture' but what about the cornerstones of American culture - democracy, free speech and religious freedom? surely they are the legacy of the Pilgrim fathers. However you look at it, it really isn't as simple as black and white. Taking the line that Estrin appears to be doing, may be heartfelt and genuine, but it appears to me to be rooted in personal insecurity rather than total respect.
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Philosofy
292 posts
Dec 03, 2009
7:10 AM
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"White people - after a while when I was really into it - can't dance, can't box, can't play basketball, can't play music, can't sing."
Hmmm, I wonder what you would be called if you turned that statement around. "Black people - can't
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Pluto
21 posts
Dec 03, 2009
7:30 AM
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Philosofy-
I guess since Estrin is white you cannot call out "reverse racism" can you.
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MrVerylongusername
668 posts
Dec 03, 2009
7:42 AM
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First of all Pluto, I'm British, so I'm talking from an outside perspective. I should also say that I'm using 'Culture' in the widest sense. Culture to me goes far beyond art, and is about human interaction at all levels within a 'group' be it a household, a tribe, a village, City, a nation... whatever. Culture is what an anthropologist studies - it is about how a society is ordered and functions.
To address your points: True, democracy and freedom of speech are not unique to America, but if you look at the feudal/monarchist history of the British Isles (for example) it puts a very different perspective on our democracy - one which becomes very apparent when I speak to American friends. For instance here in Britain we have a very rigid class structure, class is no longer really about money, it is about cultural identity. We have working class millionaires and we have impoverished aristocrats. In Britain, as in the States, a combination of hard work and good fortune can elevate a person - better house, better job, better car etc... Where I percieve our nations to differ though is that here, people who rise 'above their station' are viewed suspiciously; not quite true to their roots; Class traitors. In the States they are heralded as champions of the American dream. I'm not saying our way is better than yours or vice versa - just pointing out the difference
Second yes, the Pilgrim Fathers were very devout and I agree were hardly liberal in their attitude to faith. However, the Pilgrims left Europe because of religious persecution - centuries of it. They may not have advocated religious freedom, but they sure as hell advocated their own right to their own beliefs. That I believe is the root of your nation's right to religious freedom.
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XHarp
222 posts
Dec 03, 2009
7:48 AM
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Thanks for posting that Kudzu. Its always cool to get the facts from the players.
I find it interesting that the thoughts throughout the interview tend to be rambling a bit, perhaps searching for the proper answer, but that he remembers with clarity and definition the names of girls and guys from his high school days and that he recalls the age when he hit his first bar.
I am sure that he can relate some great stories, both warming and wrenching about integration. Seems he was present when integration was underway.
And I read through the whole thing that there is a kind of acceptable prejudice (if such a term exists) in his use of terms, " and they started bussing them.", "and I started goin' out to black clubs"
I think that only a proven performer and master of the style can make those statements in particular context.
Very cool post indeed.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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Pluto
22 posts
Dec 03, 2009
7:56 AM
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MrVery,
Well said! I appreciate you're carefully thought out reply. You also gave me insight into your british culture.
One thing I might add. Considering the age of Estrin when he discovered his curiosity with "black culture", I'd be surprised if he wasn't personally insecure. Most teenagers I know (including myself when I was one) are insecure.
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MrVerylongusername
671 posts
Dec 03, 2009
8:20 AM
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True - and that's why I think he's genuine, but maybe a bit confused regarding the politics of it. He bought into a subculture early on and it is now ingrained. I don't think he's putting on a complete act - maybe the jive is exaggerated a bit onstage? I dunno I've never seen beyond the stage act.
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Tuckster
280 posts
Dec 03, 2009
8:35 AM
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I've talked to Estrin at his shows. Unlike Rod Piazza,he pretty much talks the same off stage as he does onstage.
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kudzurunner
833 posts
Dec 03, 2009
10:03 AM
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@Mrverylong: Amazing as it may seem, I had no real motivation for sharing the excerpt, except that I'm a fan of blues autobiography and since we'd been having a long and tormented conversation about "who owns the blues" and it seemed to me that Estrin was sharing a bit of his own journey that many of us might not know, it seemed like something worth sharing. I was racing to do many things this morning and just skimmed it once, quickly, then thought, "Hey, folks might be interested in that." I should probably re-read it and see if, in fact, it was worth posting.
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Elwood
226 posts
Dec 03, 2009
10:13 AM
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White people have NO RIGHT to conduct interviews. There, I said it.
Naw, jes' kidding.
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mankycodpiece
8 posts
Dec 04, 2009
8:35 AM
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white people-after a while when i was realy into it
(into what)can't dance,box sing play music,play basketball.all that cool whatever.......
anyone knows white folks do all that cool stuff and do it just as well.
i once heard some fool(white)say "the black notes on the piano sound much better than the white notes"
i've heard truckloads of bullshit in my life,i'll just add mr estrin's to it.
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JTThirty
47 posts
Dec 04, 2009
3:28 PM
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Dang right it was worth posting, Adam. I read it on Blues Wax this morning myself and can't wait for part two of the interview. I'm with you. Any bits of oral history that we can glean from living masters like Estrin are worth passing along.
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walterharp
143 posts
Dec 05, 2009
3:55 PM
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I guess that is why Estrin is the musician he is, and I am not. I went down to the clubs in 5 points (Denver) cause they had cool live music and they would not card you to serve beer stronger than 3.2. I went for the beer as much as the music, and the thought never occurred to me that I could actually be one of the guys providing the entertainment. I remember we got some attention... maybe the jew boy and the hippie will buy me a drink... but I don't think it was viewed as anything other than it was, a couple of kids who did not know much but wanted to hang out and spend a few bucks in the bar and enjoy the music. The folk bars downtown had the same attitude as far as I remember.
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