CJames
53 posts
Dec 04, 2009
8:12 AM
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Ok, obviously there's a massive grey area, but does anyone have a preference? ie chugging along (rhythm) or floating above a band with melodic licks? I come from a lead guitar background so I'm more for the latter.
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Buddha
1201 posts
Dec 04, 2009
8:15 AM
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A good player should strive to be both.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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rbeetsme
60 posts
Dec 04, 2009
8:18 AM
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Maybe the question is: Are you a jammer or a frontman?
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congaron
319 posts
Dec 04, 2009
8:33 AM
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I just worked up a solo with plenty of both...it mimics the rhythm guitar after a short opening run with single notes opened into chords here and there. Then the rhythm measures, then an ascending run...to drop back down to the rhtythm again...back and forth between the two ideas. Kind of call-response between them. During the vocals on that particular song..it's rhythm, and the lead guitar and i take turns on licks for the fill measures.
I think both are important..one would be lop-sided without the other.
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2009 8:33 AM
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toddlgreene
212 posts
Dec 04, 2009
8:55 AM
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It's important to be both. It's good to be able to seamlessly switch from one to the other, too. I've got a song or two of my own where the harp rhythm is the glue that holds the song together. It's not written anywhere that a harmonica is strictly a solo instrument, so why confine yourself? Besides, playing rhythm will make you very aware of where changes occur and how to transition into them.
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~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
"listen to what you like for inspiration, but find your own voice"
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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hvyj
7 posts
Dec 04, 2009
9:08 AM
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The problem with playing "rhythm" is that the chords available on the diatonic harmonica are so primitive, you can't really use them for playing a variety of material other than blues and certain rock and roll and have them fit. And if you are playing in positions other than 1st, 2d and 3d, you can't even use them for that.
For this reason, I personally prefer ET harps and generally don't play very many chords. Most of the time I will use repeating single note riffs for "rhythm" with occasional split interval double stops rather than playing chords. But it depends on the style of music being played.
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nacoran
490 posts
Dec 04, 2009
9:08 AM
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I find more often than not I'm playing solo. Since I don't do guitar I pretty much have to carry the melody.
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congaron
320 posts
Dec 04, 2009
9:32 AM
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I have recently started experimenting with ET chords in a rock context. There are some that sound pretty rockin', even though they aren't perfect chords. In the right instrumental mix, with the right context..they can sound what I like to call "tough." Kindof a place to land but not stay long, if you know what i mean. Mixed with single notes in a run, you can go in and out of "the box" and do some very cool things on an ET harp...as long as it sounds intentional.
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GermanHarpist
748 posts
Dec 04, 2009
9:36 AM
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I play a lot of melody accompaniment, but rhythm is also cool.
hvyi, rhytem has not to be played with chords. It can be done with any note, sound, chord.. it can take many forms... Or maybe some kinda base line accompaniment with low harp.
However, I think too that it is easiest done with blues.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-)
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2009 9:37 AM
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Tuckster
283 posts
Dec 04, 2009
9:44 AM
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I like both,depends on the song. I really love playing rhythm but on solos I seem to run out of ideas after 24 bars.
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2009 10:03 AM
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walterharp
141 posts
Dec 04, 2009
10:11 AM
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i think in that playing rhythm really well with chords is much harder in many ways than playing solos. it is just technically difficult to repeatedly hit the same chords evenly and repeatedly on harmonica relative to a guitar or keyboard. the chops really have to be down to do it right. i shy away from it with the band i am in, but we have 2 guitars and a keyboard, so too much is too much anyway. in that setting strong repeated single note riffs are best. that also gives a really good place to build a solo from cause the idea is planted in the mind of the audience and then when you move away from the repetition, it really catches their attention and then you call and response and remind them of it (keeps it going repeatedly in the listeners head).
that being said, chugging on mystery train is something our audiences really go nuts for.
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barbequebob
159 posts
Dec 04, 2009
10:23 AM
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I for one feel very strongly that you need to be good at both. If you develop a good sense of rhythm and groove, your solos tend to make more musical sense than just mindless riffing, so that when the band drops out, you can still feel the groove happening, but if you don't develop that, once the band drops out and you start soloing by yourself, it's the most boring, grooveless, mistake filled bunch of mush that can possibly be heard.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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CJames
54 posts
Dec 04, 2009
7:50 PM
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Yeah, of course you do, that's what i mean by the grey area. All good harp players are expected to do both, but in terms of personal enjoyment. rbeetsme had a good point: jammer or frontman?
I'm sure some of you may stray towards one or the other in personal preference?
in terms of rhythm, i didn't purely mean chords, mixing in those little melody lines within the chugging is all part of a rhythm.
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Chinn
17 posts
Dec 05, 2009
9:07 AM
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I just really started to play with backing tracks. As I did that, I realized that I really spend a lot of time playing lead and don't spend much time on rythm.
Frankly, I do the same on guitar, but I know much more about playing rythm on guitar.
I definitely will be spending more time during 2010 learning more rythm and backing.
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Shredder
67 posts
Dec 05, 2009
9:12 AM
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I suppose I am both.In my bar band we only have one guitar. He plays rhythm when I take the lead and when he has a lead break I pick up the rhythm. Most of the songs the guitar is carrying the song and I am adding fills and doing the call and answer thing.Ted and I work together very well and the transitions are seamless. We must be doing some thing right cause every one seems to like what we are doing.
Mike
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pharpo
6 posts
Dec 05, 2009
9:19 AM
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I feel that you need to be able to do both. While jammming at a "Blues Open Mike" recently....I began to play some rhythm....there was one guitar, bass, drummer, and I. It added a lot to the sound and other players loved it. The guitar player later told me that it was his experience that many harp players can't or won't play a rhythm part. I also find that playing a rhythm part helps me stay in the groove.
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congaron
324 posts
Dec 05, 2009
9:33 AM
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I don't think I prefer one over the other at all. I just really like to play live with my band and enjoy whatever the music calls for. In fact, I find I simply can't recreate the energy i have live when i try practicing to backing tracks or just sitting in the car playing alone. I'm definitely a Band member harp player who has no desire to be a solo act, even though I do play guitar and harp together in a duet with my wife from time to time as we sing original material in Church.
I vote both...equal emphasis for me.
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barbequebob
168 posts
Dec 05, 2009
9:34 AM
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Pharpo, that is 100% the truth, and many harp players can't even play a simple vocal melody either because right away, too many want to be Mr. Riffmaster and solo all over the place, and what they all do by going with that attitude is set themselves up for failure with that kind of a bad attitude.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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blogward
41 posts
Dec 05, 2009
9:56 AM
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It's an interesting question with respect to playing in keys that aren't 'chorded' on the harp. But finding a nice repeatable, rhythmic lick that isn't a lead part, and fits, is one of the satisfying aspects of the harp. And that can be done in the less accessible keys.
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nacoran
506 posts
Dec 05, 2009
7:02 PM
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I've been experimenting with trying some beat boxing harmonica so I can do some rhythm underneath the melody, but I keep having problems. Most vocalizations only work when you are exhaling. Sometimes you need a draw note at the same time. Does anyone know anything about harps that are the same note for blow and draw? (I remember reading something about them but I have no idea where.)
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Greg Heumann
182 posts
Dec 05, 2009
7:19 PM
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Am I a rhythm man or a soloist?
Yes.
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/Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com
http://www.BlueStateBand.net
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bluestate
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Mr. Riffmaster
1 post
Dec 05, 2009
10:46 PM
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@ barbequebob
screw you!
just kidding :)
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Mr. Chordmaster
1 post
Dec 06, 2009
12:01 AM
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In your face, man.
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Andrew
793 posts
Dec 06, 2009
3:57 AM
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Rhythm.
The world is full of "lead guitarists" who couldn't hold a rhythm to save their lives. Make em rhythm guitarists compulsorily for 5 years first, then let them loose on lead guitar, I say!
One of the reasons I like SBW II is because there's a profound sense of rhythm holding down his playing.
If you want to be nothing but a soloist, you're quickly going to find your guitarist's cutlery in your back unless you are as good as Jason and can hire and fire accompanists. Support your band and they'll support you.
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
Last Edited by on Dec 06, 2009 3:59 AM
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Hobostubs Ashlock
166 posts
Dec 06, 2009
5:32 AM
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im not the rythem nor solist i am the wind that blows though my reeds
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hvyj
10 posts
Dec 06, 2009
5:28 PM
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You know, besides rhythm and soloing there's also MELODY. I think playing melody is the most challenging.
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rbeetsme
64 posts
Dec 06, 2009
7:39 PM
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The world is full of "lead guitarist"? Hadn't heard that.
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CJames
58 posts
Dec 06, 2009
7:48 PM
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Melody is within rhythm and lead. In fact, lead is more the melody anyway. Also, becoming and/or preferring to be a harp soloist doesn't necessarily mean you aren't good at rhythm, more so that most harp soloists talked about in this thread are automatically not very good. Isn't the logic here that you basically have to take baby steps before you can run? and remember if you're a good lead harp player - you should have rhythm in your lead lines anyway!
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hvyj
12 posts
Dec 06, 2009
8:17 PM
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It's actually often easier to play "lead" by improvising around a melody than it is to play a recognizable melody or head correctly, note for note, when required to do so. Playing melody and playing lead (improvising) are distinct skills.
By "melody" I'm not talking about imitating or copying a recorded piece note for note. I'm talking about playing the the notes of a head or a defined musical passage precisely and correctly, which is different from taking a solo or playing fills where you improvise. Playing melody requires a certain level of technical skill and discipline on the instrument. Improvisation requires more creativity and spontaneity, but may or may not require the same level of technical skill.
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Sirsucksalot
90 posts
Dec 06, 2009
9:21 PM
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both
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
338 posts
Dec 07, 2009
5:21 PM
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Rhythm. I've never won a contest for rhythm playing, that stuff was lead of course, and I always get asked to play lead and fills, but that's not where my heart is. I want to play rhythm. That's why I picked up the 48 chord, which I use in bluegrass. There is so much, so much, you can do with it. I don't wanna play fills, I wanna play chord rhythm.
I got asked a while back to play with Steve Williams' band at a gig once. I was requested as a chord player and I played 48 chord. That was my favorite gig of all time, I played lead on like three or four tunes, but still played the 48 on those. That was my favorite gig of all time and I was really honored to get asked as a rhythm player.
There are lots of folks who play better leads than me. Lots. When it comes to rhythm, there are still folks better than I, but that list is a lot shorter. I take a lot of pride in it. The harmonica, especially a chord harmonica, can provide a rhythm backing no other instrument can match... just tuned chords, sustained or choppy, or a mix of both. Steve's band, for instance, is a duo, I made a trio, but we had the sound of a five piece band. I had the chord playing a chop on the two and four, like a mandolin, and a lighter puff on the 1 and 3, the end result was a similar sound to having a mandolin and a second rhythm guitar... It was awesome.
On the 48, there are 8 reeds playing at any one time. That's a wall of sound.
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www.elkriverharmonicas.com
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2009 5:22 PM
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congaron
332 posts
Dec 07, 2009
5:46 PM
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My lead guitar player told me a few months ago, when i told him I wasn't sure I was really contributing anything to "their" sound when i joined the band:
" Now there is an underlying structure that seems to swirl in and out of our vocals and guitars parts. The band sounds so much fuller now...fat."
At the time, I was concentrating more on rhythm. My solos were very short and carefully chosen within my skill set...mostly fill measures during the vocals I wasn't singing and a 12 bar maximum melody-based solo in the middle.
There is no denying the importance of rhythm. As a percussionist first, harp player eventually, and multi-instrumentalist for years, i can't separate them in my own head as to priority, except to say all my solos and improvisations include a large amount of rhythm. I also know can't play very well to a jam track. Maybe it is too sterile and perfect for me after playing live for so long....give me a live band every time.
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2009 5:47 PM
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