|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
What do we listen to when we hear music ?
What do we listen to when we hear music ?
Page:
1
saregapadanisa
12 posts
Dec 16, 2009
6:20 AM
|
I've been following the thread started by Tooka about hearing problems and tinnitus. Depressing. I've had my share of loud music but what really puts me off is crappy acoustics, which is not necessarily related to sound volume but it helps. And that sometimes deprives me of listening the way I would like to listen.
Sheer energy is of course a factor in music, as could be relaxing, socializing, silly enjoyment (thanks god)... you name it.
But as practising musicians, we may have developped a way to listen, a focus, giving attention to "small things" : tone, phrasing, inflexions, particular techniques...
So, aside from stealing 2 or 3 licks in the process, what do you listen to when you hear music ?
|
mickil
715 posts
Dec 16, 2009
8:31 AM
|
To invert your phrase, what I like to 'hear' when I 'listen' to music is, as you put it, the 'small things'.
One of the contributors in tooka's thread mentioned how bands are often too loud. I couldn't agree with him more. In that situation, which, boringly, is all too frequent, any subtlety of tone, nuance, what have you, gets utterly lost.
At one of my local jams, there are too many players who, to use Doc's phrase about many harp players, either think they're soloing or sulking. When most people on the bandstand think that way, the result is cacaphonic.
Mine is a negative post, I know, but those are often my thoughts at live music events.
----------
YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
|
HarpNinja
42 posts
Dec 16, 2009
8:47 AM
|
It is hard for me to listen to a song and only hear one instrument...enough of the rest of the group leaks in that I sometimes miss the little stuff.
When I play, I try to hear the whole band, but typically focus on the drums, then bass, then guitar, then keys. When I am looking for something to work off of, I usually "hear" the drums for the rhythm and the guitar for the note choice.
----------
Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
|
barbequebob
226 posts
Dec 16, 2009
1:16 PM
|
Mike, that's usually known as listening like the way a pro musician does, AKA listening with bigger ears, which is exactly what I do, and just from the way you put, we may both be a bunch of "Simon Cowell types," meaning that we listen to each and every minute detail of what's going on 24/7, and we both can pick up a clam somebody just hit in a nanosecond. It sounds more like we're cut from the same cloth.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
phogi
152 posts
Dec 16, 2009
6:14 PM
|
I have two modes of listening:
1) Critical listening - listening for close detail, figuring out what does not fit in my minds eye of 'good music.' Quality phrasing, good shaping of notes, expression, structure (if improvised), tightness of rhythm, articulations appropriate to the mood, etc...
I seldom listen close to one instrument unless I'm doing some error correction and my instinct as to how to fix it does not kick in. ie, ear says, 'something wrong in flute section, 5th player to the right fingering Eb and not E natural" but sometimes just says 'listen closer to flutes, something not right'
One problem of critical listening all the time is that you end up not enjoying any music, expect that meets your preconceived notions of good music. So, you need:
2) Normal listening - listening for the tendrils of the musician's soul reaching out for you, listening for the depth of expression, the urge to dance, laugh, cry, think, smirk, etc...
I often have people tell me that 'you would know better than me, if this is good music.' This is silly. What moves you is what is good. That is the bar of measurement, and everything else is a means to that end. That bears repeating: What moves you is what is good.
|
wallyns10
116 posts
Dec 16, 2009
10:14 PM
|
When I listen to music in general, I try and take it all in while simultaneously analyzing everything. I listen for complexity and ingenuity of overall harmonic structure. I play that against and relate it to the ingenuity and complexity of the melodic structure. This all taken over the complexity of the rhythmic concept, both as a whole and as individual instruments present it in their own ways (After thinking on this and verbalizing it, well that's one hell of an equation haha). I don't usually find myself listening to the drums and/or percussion specifically (unless its a phenomenal drummer and I focus to appreciate it), but more feeling the groove and hearing how everyone else phrases in relation to it. I think soul and feeling are not necessarily separable because it all goes in to what is being played...if that makes sense. Imo, how whatever is being played IS whatever is being played, and vice versa. I also listen for tonal quality of instruments AND voice.
In recorded music I try and hear subtle things that "normal" people wouldn't hear. I try and identify what instruments, first of all are actually being played, and second what they are doing. I do my best to break everything down as previously stated.
When watching live music my favorite thing to do is read the artist and figure out what their "voice" is. How they talk musically, you know? I love it when two or three musicians have a conversation on stage and I follow it all. A lot of times I think about what I would be saying to who ever is on stage when this is going on. This helps me to appreciate the artists personal taste. One thing I love to see/hear is how far a musician can get away from the initial groove in terms of creative phrasing (syncopation and swing go into this I guess) creating tension (not necessarily purely dissonant tension...hard to explain), and then watch them bring it right back again.
THIS is precisely why I can't stand to listen to bad music. My friends can't understand this, well the ones that aren't musicians anyways. One time this one kid changed the song seconds before the climax of of 5 minute jam (it was a phish song) to a horrible rap song. It was like getting musical blue-balls and getting hit in the face simultaneously...and then he called me a moron when I jumped out of my chair and screamed at him...the nerve haha
|
MrVerylongusername
706 posts
Dec 17, 2009
4:56 AM
|
I'm with Phogi - listening with "Big Ears" is all very good when you absolutely need to be critical. If I'm behind a mixing desk I need that. If I'm learning a song I need that.
...but music should be about pleasure too. I do not go to a gallery purely to analyse the artists technique (although that can be a part of it). Sometimes I just want to look and a picture and enjoy it for what it is, pure aesthetic value. Same with music, sometimes it's about getting lost in a melody, or hearing poetry in a lyric or getting down to a funky groove - not about analysing a mix for depth and space, or a critical evaluation of tone.
Sometimes I think musicians get so bogged down into critical listening, that they forget what the purpose of music is.
|
mankycodpiece
26 posts
Dec 17, 2009
7:15 AM
|
one of my grandsons friends plays guitar,and to be honest he's very good.i had a conversation with him about QUALITY.
he plays fast where the note are just realy a blur.i suggested he would be better if he had a listen to the piece of music to see if he was complimenting the music.he thought he was.
someone once said that "rests arn't music,but there is no music without them"wise words.the music is paramount,the greatest musicians,in my view,bring expression,aqnd compliment the piece they are playing.
jimmy hendrix never did it for me.it was never about the music,it was all about him.for me,he just wasted his gift.
i've said elsewhere that i love mark knopfler and the dire straits stuff,he's all about the music.we all know how good he is,he doesn't have to prove it.
i love people like charlie parker,dizzy gillespi,larry adler toots theilmans,and lately sonny terry,because non of them abuse the music.
the boy i mentioned has a gift.i told him what ive just said here.
i've loaned him some dire straits and the greatest classical guitarist julian bream and when i get some brownie magee and sonny terry i'll let him listen to them too.
adam said somewhere on his video's that its the little things that make the difference to the music.(something like that)
couldn't agree more.
|
jaymcc28
206 posts
Dec 17, 2009
7:18 AM
|
I'm not a musician, I'm a "harmonica hobbyist". I have no training in 'critical listening'. However, I am a MAJOR music consumer. I have always been the guy in the group of friends who was just a little more passionate about his music collection than everyone else. I was always the 'early adopter' who was listening to groups and genres before any of my friends were.
I don't know if this makes sense but the first thing I "hear" is the emotion of the song. Does it speak to me rhythmically? If a song doesn't catch me right away I probably won't be listening to it too many more times. If it does catch my attention I usually start to hear the rhythm section, particularly the drums and bass line.
I guess I have to learn to listen with big ears as I move along in my journey of learning how to play the harmonica.
Interesting discussion, btw...
----------
"Take out your false teeth, momma, I want to suck on your gums."-P. Wolf
|
wallyns10
117 posts
Dec 17, 2009
8:17 AM
|
Mr. Verylongusername, when I spoke of analyzing I don't like sit there and like run through this huge checklist in my head, unless someone asks my opinion of a song or group. It all happens simultaneously, almost sort of effortlessly, and automatically. Don't get me wrong, there are times when I put a more concerted effort into listening, like I just said, but that is not always. I love getting lost in music and just letting my thoughts wander, or more so letting the music dictate the path of my thoughts. Its hard to explain, I guess I would compare it to reading a good book. One of the things that I look for in an author is good prose both from a technical and creative standpoint, but I don't sit there and analyze every word, word by word. I let it all wash over me and let it dictate to my imagination while at the same time hold on to some semblance of conscious thought. I'll mark pages where I like the way the author words things, and at the same time find myself saying in other cases that this or that sentence was hard to follow or wasn't particularly descriptively creative. But that doesn't take away from the pleasure I get or the picture that was/is painted in my mind. Music is very much the same. I appreciate music that much more because I have learned to listen "critically." I get more pleasure from it because I try to understand it...I actually listen to it, not just hear it, like I did in the past (before I started playing music seriously). If you are not really listening to music, than it just becomes background noise with a back-beat, something to dance to and talk over. Thats my opinion. I think the two facets go hand in hand. You can emphasize one or the other but they both are ever present.
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2009 2:15 PM
|
MrVerylongusername
709 posts
Dec 17, 2009
8:26 AM
|
Absolutely!
My comment followed yours, but it wasn't aimed specifically at you. I think learning to listen critically is very important, but it can reduce music to a very mechanical level. Sometimes you need to switch the big ears off and just enjoy the WHOLE; let the music wash over you.
|
nineveh_harp
23 posts
Dec 17, 2009
11:02 AM
|
I am a "big ears" listener as well, but I have to be careful because sometimes it can keep me from just enjoying myself. When I'm not listeneing to it that way (big ears), I typically zone in on the drums and bass, which is funny because I'm mainly a guitarist. In my opinion (as a lead guitarist even) is that the rhythm section is NEVER expendable. A band can put on a great show with nothing but drums and bass if they do it right. One thing that drove me crazy in my last band was the fact that my singer always wanted me to play a solo in EVERY song... after a couple years, I started refusing... unless the song would actually benefit from it. I am a lead guitar player, but I HATE mindless shredding!!! It drives me up the wall! It's all about the rhythm, meldody, and emotion for me. The little things.
-Sam Miller
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2009 11:03 AM
|
Post a Message
|
