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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Authenticity, Identity, Music and Accesories
Authenticity, Identity, Music and Accesories
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phogi
153 posts
Dec 17, 2009
3:44 AM
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With the length thread about owning the blues, I feel there is another large question that applies very broadly to all genres of music:
What is the relationship between music and identity?
Music of course is not the only way people establish identity. Clothes, tats, cars, houses, methods of walking, hair style, hair color, etc...
I always feel like I'm out of the loop on this kinda stuff because I don't tie my identity to a particular kind of music. So, does this mean I'm missing out on one of the core functions of music? I have no tats, I mostly wear hand me downs, I drive a hand me down car, and live simply in a decent apartment place I can afford. So, am I missing out on a core element of human identity by making use of what comes my way, instead of intentionally seeking out those things that would signify identity to the outer world?
Sugar Blue said "I'm a blues man." How do you feel your identity tied to a genre of music? Scholars, how do you feel about it?
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Ant138
222 posts
Dec 17, 2009
3:50 AM
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My wife has just written an essay on Music and identity for her degree.
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mickil
721 posts
Dec 17, 2009
5:32 AM
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I just wrote this in the other thread, but it could equally well go here:
jonsparrow,
I think your analogy with Manson is missing the point. Manson's music is a part of what has gradually come to be known as 'youth culture'; it's connected with the idea of teenagers as a separate social group with their own identy: the dress code and music are a part of that identy.
The blues in its earlier form predates that by at least forty years. Those early bluesmen weren't 'dressing up'; their attire was simply what a club owner would've expected them to wear. At that time, entertainers were required to be at least as well turned out as their patrons were. Don't forget, this is way before the time when anything went, be it spikey green hair, metal rings hanging out of every orifice and what have you.
The whole idea of youth music and all its movements - teddy boys, mods, rockers, glam rock, new romantics, punks, etc, etc - has very little to do with the blues, which, for the most part, most people would consider to be a serious or non-transient art form. Those other types of music are - in fact, are meant to be - fads. What is listened to by one generation will be seen as 'uncool' by the next. That is a part of the industry's marketing technique. The blues, along with other 'serious' music forms, is not like that: if you have a grandson, the chances are that one day he might want to learn blues harp; he will not, however, be in a Marylin Manson tribute band. No one, except for a few musicologists will have the faintest idea who Marylin Manson was.
The only link between those movements and the blues is the way that they often appropriate the 12 bar form as an instantly recognisable hook, e.g. Bill Hailey and The Comets' Rock Around The Clock; Roxy Music's Let's Stick Together; The Stranglers' Mean To Me; the list is endless.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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wallyns10
119 posts
Dec 17, 2009
2:10 PM
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I think a lot of people confuse authenticity with vanity (in a manner of speaking). Like Mr. Verylongusername said, I think that a lot of people feel its necessary to dress like BB King or Junior Wells (well maybe not THAT flamboyantly, but you get the picture) because they have become in a sense purists. I think that the subculture of the blues at a base level was pain and angst, pure and simple, but it has changed. I have seen more than a few people who play the blues and dress the part, but they don't have that foundation of pain, they don't have that soul...they don't have a true understanding of the blues. They walk the walk and they can talk...just not like THAT, you know? The reason I think the 2nd/3rd generation bluesmen dressed up because they came from nothing, and all the sudden they had status and they had the money to spend. Its the same reason why rich corporate ceo's buy gulfstreams: private jets are cool, they got the money for it, and its a symbol of status. Also, back in the day was a lot different from a fashion perspective. All the cloths looked basically the same, it was a question of how nice they were. Look at sonny terry, he HAD the blues, and he wore slacks and button down shirts and ties, but he never went over the top with three piece suits and alligator shoes (at least not till later, when fashion was opened up). No one thinks to dress like a poor southern black though, and thats really where the blues is from...Adam Gussow had (has?) the blues, and he wore sleeveless tees and daisy pukes (haha). I think the blues is about the feeling, not the cloths on your back. What mick said about fads was dead on. You don't need a purple fedorra to sing the blues, you need a strong diaphragm, a good sense of rhythm, and a bad circumstance.
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jonsparrow
1439 posts
Dec 17, 2009
3:49 PM
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haha true so true.
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RyanMortos
522 posts
Dec 17, 2009
3:49 PM
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I agree with jon. You really need to explore yourself and find out who you are & what you like. No one can tell you what that is but you.
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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gene
305 posts
Dec 17, 2009
7:13 PM
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I don't go anywhere, much. I've had the blues, my status in life ain't all that great, but I don't really have it THAT darned bad, either.
I dress for comfort. You should see me in the summer:
Barefoot, white v-neck T-shirts with holes of all sizes and sleeves ripped half off, my pants are torn half off at the knees, I don't shave for days...A total slob. That's the real me. (One time when I went to 7-11 like that, a man offered me food! :D )
I'm not a performer, but if I were to go on stage, do y'all think I should just be myself, or dress up a little bit? (Rhetorical question.)
Since I don't come from real poverty, should I just sing songs about mowing the lawn and walking the dogs or dumping too much salt in my mashed potatoes? Or should I sing stuff people like?
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jbone
236 posts
Dec 17, 2009
7:30 PM
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i sing and play what i like. it's a lot of blues and blues derived. my harp style, singing style, and lyric writing style is mostly blues.
i've been hooked by the I-IV-V and other blues forms for most of my life now. for a long time i had no idea about this. but from an early age i found solace in blues, the music, the style of those who sang, and what they sang about. having suffered a shattering loss at an early age, and managing to get my heart seriously broke a few times, led me to blues. i've never really left. for a time i fell into the vapid record-selling pop crap on the radio, but eventually i found and then sought out more"real" musicians playing "real" music. all subjective, not to be a snob.
other music impresses me. bluegrass, folk, metal, alt rock, hip hop, etc etc. i just don't have a desire to contribute to those, i know i can emulate my blues heroes to some extent and have a really fine time doing it, so that's what i do. i can also help keep a traditional music form alive, not without changes, but basically keep it pretty much intact.
i too look good in a fedora, a nice shirt, and big florsheim shoes like my uncles used to wear. if i was playing to stuffed shirts, i doubt i'd be playing blues so i don't worry too much about dressing too fancy. look good, play good, feel good.
above all, since harmonica fits into most genres of music, do what YOU want to do!
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gene
306 posts
Dec 17, 2009
9:19 PM
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Yeah! Thanks! Good idea...I'll do that! :D
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bdr
44 posts
Dec 18, 2009
3:12 AM
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Not all blues is about poverty, shitty relationships pay a big part too. I bet Tiger has the blues..
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My granddad gave me some sound advice on his deathbed.
"It's worth spending money on good speakers," he told me.
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MrVerylongusername
715 posts
Dec 18, 2009
5:17 AM
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Sheesh! some of you guys have a really narrow view of what blues music is all about. It's not all "my baby left me dying, while my dog ate my last pair of shoes" you know. There is real humour in blues music, wordplay, jubilation, bragging, and sexual innuendo dripping from every orifice.
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Miles Dewar
419 posts
Dec 18, 2009
6:38 AM
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I don't believe "Blues" is ALL about Your girl leaving you, Being poor, or dying.
There ARE blues songs that are happy and upbeat....Mojo, Have a Good Time, Hell, Otis in the Dark is "Otis in THE DARK".....But that's a pretty darn happy song.....Nothing "Dark" about it.
Tell me This......
What happens if Gussow wasn't there. If youtube or easily reachable teachers or like-minded people where not there. All you had was a Marine Band, and a Couple Cd's with "Blues" in the Title.... and Those Cd's had mostly happy sounding songs........
After woodshedding with these and listening to these for an extended period of time, You suddenly Heard "Spoonfull".
Would You Recognise or accept that song as a "Blues"? Without the help of another person or title saying so.
Or would you pick up different things like rythmic concepts or certain grooves?
.....Can a Groove be "Sad" or "Bluesy"? Or is it just a "Groove"?
The final question......................How many Billions of people are on Earth?
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HarpNinja
46 posts
Dec 18, 2009
7:06 AM
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Read this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Mysticism-Sound-Shambhala-Dragon-Editions/dp/1570622310
To me, as soon as you start do define something, you limit that something. If I "identify" my being with an image based on music, then I will be limiting myself musically. That's just not what I am about. I think the biggest diservice to myself is not trying to be me 100% of the time. I shouldn't change my persona based on social situations...so having a stage persona doesn't turn my crank.
Regarding blue specifically, I really enjoy where Satan and Adam come from.
Finally, going against the grain should be a way of life.
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Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
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HarpNinja
47 posts
Dec 18, 2009
7:20 AM
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From a sociology stand point, to answer the OP, yes, music can directly be tied to identity.
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Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
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GamblersHand
110 posts
Dec 18, 2009
7:50 AM
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@MrVLUN
Well put. I find this "hardship and misery" thing a boring cliche. My view is that some people can feel and express this kind music well, some people less so.
But as for stage attire, it's obviously a personal thing. Some people and performers have the style and charisma to pull just about anything off. I don't, but then I don't begrudge those that do.
And digresssing a little I'm not sure that some degree of artifice to a stage performance is necessarily a bad thing - Howlin' Wolf was an amazing perfomer, with obviously a lot of showmanship from the old clips I've seen - perhaps even more so, going from a piece I read in Robert Palmer's "Deep Blues" a whle back. Muddy, BB King, Junior Wells, Louis Jordan, Buddy Guy - they all seem to have/had a considerable degree of theatrics to their shows... and the charisma and ability to make it seem "real" or unstaged.
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kudzurunner
881 posts
Dec 18, 2009
8:10 AM
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How does John Mayer dress onstage? James Cotton? Eric Clapton? Sugar Blue? Jason Ricci? Billy Branch? Carlos Santana?
It's the music, not the dress. How you dress is secondary. Think about the artists I've listed above. They're all brilliant blues artists--and they're more than that, too. They're great musicians, inspired performers. The clothes they wear have virtually nothing to do with that. And none of them dress the same way. There's no "style" that you can extract from that bunch of artists. (Cotton dressed in old blue jeans and t-shirts for many years. He was a bit of a slob. Who cared?)
Now, if you want to dress "bluesy," there is a costume you can put on. But that's not the same thing as playing great, memorable music and dressing in a way that enables it.
I discovered that the key thing for me was a) pants that didn't fall down when they got sweat-soaked; and b) shirts that remained comfortable and didn't look bad when I sweated heavily in them.
Turned out that relatively tight black jeans and poly-pro shirts worked best for me. Sometimes I wear a Hawaiian type shirt over a poly-pro singlet. Cotton t-shirts got soaked fast and needed to be changed after every set.
Black jeans don't show dirt, although when you sweat heavily, they do accumulate whitish salt stains. So I pack three pairs for the road.
Last Edited by on Dec 18, 2009 8:11 AM
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nacoran
557 posts
Dec 18, 2009
8:33 AM
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bdr-
All my sponsors left me
Think my wife is leaving too
I know I shouldn't have slept around
I got the Tiger Woods blues...
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