nacoran
555 posts
Dec 18, 2009
7:55 AM
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Hey everyone. My Low Low F Seydel Favorite arrived. It sounds sweet. The 1-2-3 draw sounds like, well I can't even describe it. It's like if an organ and a didgeridoo had a baby. The other day my friend and I recorded Saints Go Marching In on guitar and my G Harp. Goofing around on the computer we lowered it an octave and it sounded like I was on a sax. Well, this harp is a whole step lower than that!
I forgot to order the little Seydel tool to open it up so I can't show you pictures of the inside. It's my first harp that's covers go out all the way to the ends before coming down, and it is real comfortable to hold. All I have here to record it is a computer mic, so to do it justice I'll wait until I have access to a better mic. I wanted to try a metal comb and it's nice. Dave Payne, at Elk River Harmonicas, included one of his chestnut combs, which is gorgeous, so smooth, and I'll try that as soon as I have something to open this bad boy up with. I had it half-valved, but I've never played anything this low before so I have no idea if it's helping.
Wait, here is a recording of the LLF, lousy mic and all, just so you can hear how low it is:
http://filesocial.com/zf3rfr
Sorry about not embedding. I'll fix that later.
Last Edited by on Dec 18, 2009 8:28 AM
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GamblersHand
111 posts
Dec 18, 2009
7:59 AM
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Interesting - not able to listen/commet to the track, and not wanting to sabortage the thread, but does anyone know why a LL F is made, and not (to my knowledge) a low C, Bb, A, G...
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nacoran
556 posts
Dec 18, 2009
8:17 AM
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Gambler- Seydel's lowest harp is a LLF, but you can get everything on up through the regular range and a few high tunings too. At a certain point the reeds start hitting the covers.
LLF, LLF#, LAb, LA, LBb, LB, LC, LDb, LD, LEb, LE, LF, LF#
Seydel's site:
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Seydel
Last Edited by on Dec 18, 2009 8:19 AM
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toddlgreene
264 posts
Dec 18, 2009
8:38 AM
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Yeah, from the sounds of it, you bend down that 1 draw(and maybe even others) and it would hit the cover-or are the covers flared out to accomodate the longer reeds? How well-gapped does it seem? Does it play easily?
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~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
"listen to what you like for inspiration, but find your own voice"
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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GamblersHand
112 posts
Dec 18, 2009
8:45 AM
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nacoran - thanks. Sounds like Seydel are the only ones who (currently) go down that low?
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nacoran
558 posts
Dec 18, 2009
8:50 AM
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It plays smooth. The valves stick a bit, but hey, they're valves. I'm not able to get much bending, but I have a hard time sometimes with my G harps, so I'm not surprised. I don't hear any reeds hitting the covers, oh wait, maybe a little, but it sounds more like raindrops than the ringing on a higher harp. Just a whisper of air and you the reeds sound. It's not super loud, but doesn't take a lot of air to get a sound. I can play it quieter than any other harp in my collection.
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nacoran
559 posts
Dec 18, 2009
8:51 AM
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Gambler- I think Bushman has some pretty low harps. Everybody has a couple, but I think Seydel's LLF is the champ for low unless you go get a full blow big old bass harp.
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toddlgreene
265 posts
Dec 18, 2009
8:54 AM
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Cool, i didn't know they were valved-why is that, anyway? Man, I'd like to play that sucker mic'd thru an octave pedal and a bass amp!
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~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
"listen to what you like for inspiration, but find your own voice"
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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nacoran
560 posts
Dec 18, 2009
9:00 AM
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They usually aren't half-valved, but I had heard that lower harps needed more air and that valving helped.
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Greg Heumann
188 posts
Dec 18, 2009
9:24 AM
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I bought a LLF from Seydel at SPAH. Why? Because it is just so cool. Probably not loud enough to perform with in my settings, but man is it fun.
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/Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com
http://www.BlueStateBand.net
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bluestate
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blogward
48 posts
Dec 18, 2009
9:40 AM
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The lowest reeds have huge blobs of solder on them.
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harmonicanick
488 posts
Dec 18, 2009
10:11 AM
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I have the same, but as Greg says its not loud enough to play in audience, unless they are v quiet, but sounds awesome in the right environment
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Rick Davis
21 posts
Dec 18, 2009
10:30 AM
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I have Lo F and Lo D, both Hohner Special 20. They are fun, but intonation is tougher on those deep tones. I took me a bit of practice. The first time I busted the Lo D out in a jam it sounded like I was playing in the wrong key...
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Kingley
543 posts
Dec 18, 2009
10:43 AM
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I really like my Marine Band in Low Eb. Very cool sounding harp.
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nacoran
561 posts
Dec 18, 2009
10:46 AM
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OK, so, first repair question...lol.
The metal comb tasted a little tangy for my tastes, so I tried the wonderful comb Dave included. Unfortunately, despite all the warnings I'd read about Seydel hex nuts I went ahead and stripped one. The cover is half on, and I can squeeze it shut to play, but it's going to need a new set of screws to link together. (It's those funky screws that screw into a nut that looks kind of like a second screw.) First, does anyone know what it's called so I can sound informed at the hardware store, second, anyone know of something that will do the same thing with a more traditional head fitting?
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Kingley
544 posts
Dec 18, 2009
10:53 AM
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They are called "Jacket Screws". You could use a 10mm or 12mm M2 screw and nut to hold them together.
I'd suggest sending either Dave Payne or Rupert Oysler an email and asking them if they have any Seydel cover screw sets for sale.
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nacoran
562 posts
Dec 18, 2009
12:39 PM
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Thanks Kingley. I did basically that, for now. I'll probably end up ordering the tool kit and some extra screws. This is my first Seydel. It won't be my last, so I'm going to need the basics for maintenance.
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Micha
44 posts
Dec 18, 2009
3:23 PM
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Very nice sound. I like it!
Which Seydel model is it and what's the price? Did you have to wait a long time before it arrived?
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nacoran
563 posts
Dec 18, 2009
9:58 PM
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It's a Seydel Favorite. It took a little while to get here, but Dave more than made up for it. I hope I didn't bother him too much with my emails every couple of days. I was like a kid waiting for Christmas presents. Looking inside it I knew the low reeds would have weights, but they are massive.
I had it half-valved. After shipping it was just under a hundred bucks. (The regular tunings are less expensive.)
Other details... the cover shape is much more comfortable to hold than any of my other harps, except maybe my Golden Melody. The cover seems sturdy, not as heavy as say a Special 20, and the tabs aren't real sturdy when you have it apart. They have good strength for withstanding pressure, but not as good when the the harp is apart. I bent one a little. I imagine a lot of people on hear would open up the back anyway.
After you play the one blow or draw if you don't play another note you can feel the whole thing vibrating for a few seconds after.
The stock comb is aluminum. It tastes a little funny on tongue blocks but it gives the harmonica a great heft even with the medium weight covers. The comb Dave sent with it is chestnut. It's gorgeous.
The jacket screws look great. They are a bit harder put on than a regular screw and nut. The covers spring up on the sides as soon as the screws unlatch. It gives it a great air-tightness, but I launched the jacket half across the room.
-Oh, and Seydel lets you do all sorts of crazy tunings. Everyone is always complaining that they like this harp or that harp, only they wish it was just or equal or compromise tuned. Seydel has an app for that! (Or Richter, or Paddy, or Spanish, or Circular, etc.)
Last Edited by on Dec 18, 2009 10:09 PM
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CJames
77 posts
Dec 18, 2009
10:37 PM
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Cool! I want one!
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barbequebob
237 posts
Dec 19, 2009
9:16 AM
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Seydel definitely sells screws as well as other parts for the harmonicas on their website. Rupert's a good guy to deal with as well as a customizer. The correct screwdriver for a Seydel harmonica is a Pozidriv #0, and if you substitute a Phillips head, use EXTREME CAUTION because the those cap screws being used on the coverplates are extremely delicate and the screwdriver can easily shred the slot that these go into and DO NO OVERTIGHTEN them at all.
With the low pitched harps, you do have to make some sublte adjustments to your playing as well as your embouchure, so some woodshedding is necessary before using them on a gig.
I find the Seydel low pitched harps out of the box play better than the Hohners do (tho a customized Hohner low pitch is obviously gonna be a helluva lot better), and on the low pitch harp cover plates, they purposely put a little "ridge" or "bump" on the bottom cover plate to prevent the 1 draw from banging against the coverplate, which is a smart idea.
I use Low F's and Low Eb's very frequently and so with those, I can approach it with a more sax like attack.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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nacoran
566 posts
Dec 19, 2009
10:44 AM
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The blow bends at the top seem to work. I can't seem to get much in the way of bends.
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barbequebob
240 posts
Dec 19, 2009
6:26 PM
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Remember, this harp is tuned not one octave lower than a stock F, but TWO octaves lower and many people have problems adjusting their technique and their embouchure for many harps lower than a G, and for newbies, this tuning especially difficult. To do any bending in that area, you will have play it more like a chromatic and carefully EASE your way into the bend rather than doing it like a newbie would and try to force it to happen. Without that valve, this tuning would be much harder to play, and so it`s got that in common with a chromatic.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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nacoran
569 posts
Dec 19, 2009
7:56 PM
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BBQ- I won't force the bends. Actually, for right now I'm having fun just playing first position stuff. After playing it my regular G harp feels like a squeaky little E or F! The weights on the reeds are huge. They take up half the length of the reeds on the lower notes. I'm also having a lot of fun playing octaves, although the aluminum taste of the comb is still taking some getting used to.
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oldwailer
973 posts
Dec 19, 2009
9:53 PM
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I love the low harps I have--but low C is my lowest one. They are a bitch to bend in 2nd--but I've gotten to where it's getting easier--like Bob says--you have to play with it for a while, and ease into the bends.
I'd love to get a low low F--that sound clip sounded great.
I have a low D that was one of those one in 6 really good ones off the rack--it does clack a little if you throw the advice of BBQ to the winds and rip into a chug--but I think it adds a cool rhythm element if you get some control over it--sort of a CLACK a tuka Clack a tuka thing. . .
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
341 posts
Dec 23, 2009
7:56 AM
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Nacoran,
I put that together with a flathead screwdriver. Send me an e-mail to remind me to send you a couple of screws in the mail.
Dave
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www.elkriverharmonicas.com
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
342 posts
Dec 23, 2009
7:57 AM
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Another thing that LLF is a good one for practicing overdraws. They are really easy when you get down that low.
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www.elkriverharmonicas.com
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MrVerylongusername
719 posts
Dec 23, 2009
8:50 AM
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I have a LLF and a LG, great harps - can't bend the 1 draw at all! I find they have a slow attack and long sustain, a kind of cello-like quality. They suit a different playing style.
Anyway one important thing about these harps is to do with the weighting on the reeds. If you open it up you'll see it is a serious blob of solder there. These harps are quite close gapped to start with and I have found -unbelievable as this might sound - that the weight of the solder will actually bend the reed if they are left for a long time in a horizontal position. My LG's 1 blow actually gapped itself shut! I couldn't work out what was going on until I opened it up. Since then I have followed Seydel's advice to store the low harps upright - i.e. with the reeds vertical - and have had no more trouble
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nacoran
594 posts
Dec 23, 2009
10:54 AM
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Elk- I found a different screwdriver that was able to deal with the screw. It wasn't stripped too badly. The only problem with the harp now is every time I play any other harp the other harp now sounds like it has no grit.
MVLUN- I'd read somewhere about storing low harps but I couldn't remember what. I thought about it for a minute, about where the stress would be and came up with that solution. Every now and then when I first pick it up the one hole won't respond. Tapping the harp lightly frees it up.
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