mickil
734 posts
Dec 20, 2009
11:08 AM
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A few times on here, people have posted about their busking experiences, and, being the I.M.M.O.G. (irrasible miserable moany old git) I've become, I always end up banging on about how I used to busk, but don't anymore because it's become so monitored, restricted and otherwise curtailed where I live, which is Croydon, South East London.
London forum members might know the place 'cos it's a big town, about 400,000 peeps me thinks, and a 20 minute train ride from London Victoria.
Anyway, Croydon has got a big main drag with dozens of shops and zillions of people. You can apply to the Stasi - oops, I mean council - for a busking licence to play on the main drag, but you have to have all the gear to make yourself heard. And, you do need a lot of gear to make yourself heard: it's a very busy place.
Also in Croydon there are two subways that go under the main road, and a large, cavenous entrance to one of the shopping centres; they are fantastic places to play because they're sheltered from the rain, and have incredible accoustics. One of them smells of pee, but you get used to it, more or less.
Those are the places I used to play, with just a few harps in my pocket and a hat for the tips. No licence. No law enforcement officer telling me how illegitimate my actions were. In the past, I've seen many inspiring players - no, awsome players - in those tunnels. Some of the best local musicians in my town cut their teeth down there, and, I wonder whether they would've got anywhere without that. Some of them also became friends.
When I played those tunnels, I'd get bored with my playing, and I started to figure out a few of 'the secrets' that Adams YT vids have given us. More than that, it gave me the confidence to go to a few local jams, where I found that, if I put my mind to it, I could sing reasonably well.
It's all gone now: restricted, curtailed. Beyond nostalgia, which is often portrayed as a dirty word, it makes me very sad.
What's your story?
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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Hobostubs Ashlock
194 posts
Dec 20, 2009
11:53 AM
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i dont know if i could or not i live in a small town next to a lake in oklahoma,It should have more tourist but it doesnt,I wanted to try it the last coupleyears just to say i did.but theres not a lot of traffic except during a festivil.I know there very tolerant of street venders here but they do change a permit and you dont see a lot of them.If and when i do i would like to go down the rode to a better spot like Austin or Branson i live in the middle of thos spots and i here you can do allright there.But i cant even drive to get a beer or a regular job no car going right now so if i do any busking its going to be close. lol but i would like to try it it sounds like a dying art form that should be preseaved.
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mickil
737 posts
Dec 20, 2009
12:08 PM
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"i would like to try it it sounds like a dying art form that should be preseaved."
Hobo, I suppose that's what I'm driving at, at least where I live.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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shanester
8 posts
Dec 20, 2009
12:23 PM
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I agree that it should be preserved, Hobostubs. There are buskers here in Austin, but not as many as you would think. Near UT campus and on 6th street I've seen them.
I am going to start busking from a pedicab (mobile platform, already working for tips) I'll keep you posted!
I like the advice I saw on some website (didn't save link) that advises:
Never ask if its legal.
Be courteous and move on if requested.
Set up where people can leave if they don't want to hear it (as in not next to outdoor seating for cafe)
A great place where busking is very alive, well and vital is New Orleans. You've gotta check that out!
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Buzadero
227 posts
Dec 20, 2009
12:32 PM
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I live in a thriving metropolis with a population of 65. I can busk all I want. However, the office that I spend the most time at is in San Francisco. SF is a very busker-friendly city. My other office is in New Orleans. However, that is manned by one of my business partners and I invariably spend all my time offshore when I go down there. I would like to take some time to do a little street time. Years ago, when I lived in NOLA, I did quite a bit and loved it. Very receptive tourist demographic. Back then (the 80's) it was more little informal street jams, more like a front porch social thing on the street than just one knucklehead standing and playing for tips. Tips were secondary to jst playing and passing around a bottle in a sack or the occassional stealth doobie.
I do plan to make the time to get down to NOLA one of these days and meet up with my new Greene friend. Maybe he and I can revisit the old street jam spirit.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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Rick Davis
27 posts
Dec 20, 2009
12:33 PM
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Sure, there is lots of busking on the open-air 16th Street Mall here in Denver, during the summer anyway. As far as I know there are few restrictions. I've done it several times and it is fun.
One of my favorite places to busk is along Mill Ave. in Tempe AZ near ASU. Also up in Boulder, CO.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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isaacullah
512 posts
Dec 20, 2009
12:57 PM
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Rick, when did you used to busk here in Tempe? I've played out a bit around town, but haven't tried Mill yet. There's some BADASS blues guitarists who play down there... With FULL amplification. But there's also a bunch of homeless druggy punks out there being jackasses, and I wouldn't really want to have to deal with them....
I have no idea what the laws are, though it seems pretty lax. I've stuck to just acoustic, and played near bus stops and park benches and what not so I could just say I was playin' for myself while waiting for the bus if the cops ever asked what I was doing... I don;t earn much that way (mostly nada), but it's been helping me get over my anxiety of playing in public. It's really nice when someone stops for a bit to listen to you, or says they liked what you were just playing.
When I really do make my first go of, it'll likely be out on Roosevelt Row in downtown PHX during the First Friday event. I've seen tons of different street acts there... That seems very free form, easy, and profitable. Not to mention, it seems like they actually ENCOURAGE street musicians... I could also get away with playing the same limited repertoire of songs all night since it's a walk through circuit of sorts, and people only tend to do one round about before heading in to the bars...
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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shanester
10 posts
Dec 20, 2009
12:57 PM
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By the way, mickil, that is a bummer about your locality.
I definitely think any vital city needs buskers.
Maybe you can transform that over there. Form an old school musician's guild and lobby the city or something. Go guerilla and play some mean blues but in your interactions be gentle and sweet and roll up quick, I don't know. Maybe that's the blues.
Good luck!
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lumpy wafflesquirt
132 posts
Dec 20, 2009
1:04 PM
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no license needed in any part of Herefordshire :^)
I really must do it properly sometime. I did play a bit for Children in Need in Hereford.
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mickil
738 posts
Dec 20, 2009
1:20 PM
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shanester,
Thanks for your words of encouragement. I have been thinking about trying to challenge things here, such as they've become. But, I am up against a bureaucratic nightmare from hell. Still, simply asking the authorities what the problem is won't do any harm. I can insist on an audience with them and challenge them. After all, they are supposed to be there for my benefit as well, not just for the sake of their own bureaucratic existence.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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Aussiesucker
476 posts
Dec 20, 2009
1:28 PM
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On another thread I posted this as my first time experience which was just on a week ago:-
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"After much procrastination & having finally run out of excuses, with licence in hand, and a bag of harps plus a tip bucket and water bottles, I went Busking.
My destination was Brisbane's Queen St Mall ie that was the only spot that the licence covered. The area I was allowed within was only a few hundred metres long. Strictly enforced rulings were that absolutely no form of amplification is allowed.
I started playing at around 10.30am & all was going great until about 25m away a large choir arrived with sanctioned heavy amplification gear, and a stage, and started singing Carols. I could no longer be heard. I couldn't hear myself!
So I moved away only to be sandwiched between a guy on a squeezebox and a guy on a saxaphone but was away from the choir. It was very iffy and my wife went by a couple of times and said that it was not possible to hear me. The Sax and the Squeezebox were easily heard and I would estimate that they had more volume than I could even get were I allowed to use my 10amp busking/practice amp.
As the day progressed it got busier and noisier, so after an hour I packed up.The takings would have in an hour or so of reasonable playing paid for the bus tickets, coffee and maybe some lunch. $10 an hour is not wide of the mark.
Will I do it again? Yes, it's a great experience. Good for practice? Yes somewhat, but more so for the practice of playing in public. It's a great insight into human nature ie those that put money in were the ones who looked as though they had nothing. I was not there for the money.
In all a great experience and one that I recommend all should try. It's really very easy and very forgiving.
What I need to explore is there on the market a tiny battery amp that can be concealed in eg harp case or tip bucket,and will work wirelessly from a concealed lapel mike? This for a harp player working the street in Brisbane, during a busy time, is I think essential."
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I have been sussing out wireless concealable mic & amp gear but hell its expensive ie would need to do heaps of busking to warrant its purchase. But, a lone harp player, if you are not being heard really makes you feel like you are a beggar. Licences are currently free and issued after an audition.
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mickil
739 posts
Dec 20, 2009
1:51 PM
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Aussie,
This was my contribution to your post, along with its inclusive rant, which epitomises what I'm banging on about:
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I'd say that your experience of passers by is identical to mine on the hundreds of times when I've been busking. The wealthy-looking types were much less likely to throw a tip or even a look of acknowledgement. Of course, no one's obliged to throw either, but, a smile or a nod of approval often did a lot to lift my spirits when the tips were thin on the ground.
I hate all that licensing crap. When I used to busk - around the late 90s - you could just go down to one of the local subways and play; you hurt no one and maybe made a few quid. Now, you can't do anything without being monitored, charged, or otherwise given some kind of shit. Welcome to the brave new World.
You know, it's funny: last week I was watching Doc's video where he filmed the streets of New York and then played in that tunnel. In London, I could be arrested for doing either of those heinous activities.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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Rick Davis
28 posts
Dec 20, 2009
1:57 PM
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Isaaculah, I've busked on Mill Ave a couple times with my GF's 16-year old son, Mark, who plays a pretty mean blues guitar. A buddy of his named "Shorty" is a 50-year old black guy who is the real deal... he plays guitar, sings, and plays harp on a rack. Look for him on Mill ave. He's good.
The last time I played on Mill was a couple months ago, during an ASU football game on a Saturday night. The street was jumpin'. Lots of fun, and we made a few bucks which I gave to Mark. He's hooked now; takes a bus from his home in Chandler nearly every week to busk on Mill.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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harmonicanick
489 posts
Dec 20, 2009
2:41 PM
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Hey Lumpy,
Venice Beach or Hereford? Difficult choice..hmm
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Sarge
8 posts
Dec 20, 2009
5:00 PM
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There's only 3000 people in the whole county where I live. 90 in my town. I could busk the whole county and not make a buck.
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toddlgreene
267 posts
Dec 20, 2009
5:19 PM
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Buzadero-BRING IT ON. That would be fun, and no, I've actually never done it. I'm re-tooling my gear to be able to do the one-man looptastico like son of Dave(whom I was introduced via this forum), and actually considering doing that fairly often...i'd love to have another harp player when i do get to it. Yes, NOLa, especially Royal St in the Quarter is quite busker-friendly.
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~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
"listen to what you like for inspiration, but find your own voice"
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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isaacullah
513 posts
Dec 20, 2009
6:35 PM
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Rick, that's super cool! I didn't know you came down this way at all. Next time you do, let me know (you can e-mail me at iiullah[at]yahoo[dot]com). I'd love to come down and see you playing on Mill (maybe join in a bit, but I'm not super-great at playing with other people yet)...
I know of two black dudes who are fantastic blues guitarists down on Mill... Is "Shorty" the older guy who sets up in front of Urban Outfitters and has the huge-ass amplifier? An amp so big he has to have a dolly to move it around? He sometimes plays with a backing track? Or is he the somewhat younger dude with long hair in braids or dreads, and who plays through two Roland Microcubes? I think both of them sit down when they play... I've definitely pitched some $$ their way, and stood around listening to them after being a bit "overly refreshed" (to steal the term from Mick) in Rula Bula or one of the other Mill Ave night spots...
Yeah, definitely let me know next time you swing down! It would be pretty sweet to hang out down on Mill with a fellow harpman...
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2009 6:57 PM
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Aussiesucker
477 posts
Dec 20, 2009
7:49 PM
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mickil> I read and understand what you are on about. We all despise the completely unnecessary big brother attitude of the petty bureaucrats who run the cities. Licences to busk are crazy & whilst they here are currently free they will, like everything else, be sure to be seen a a revenue raiser.
I would tend to agree with a previous post wherin it advised-
Never ask if it is legal
Be courteous & move on if directed
Set up where people can leave
I would also add that to look neat & tidy. And be careful to not be too loud.
If I were busking in other than my home town or perhaps in another country (with a friendly open govt), I probably wouldn't worry about a licence. People generally are very friendly and acceptable ie unless they are the mean miserable self important petty beaurocrats from city hall.
I had in mind a busking outfit that fitted into a small daypack. Using a soft cloth hat for the money. A finger mic. Wireless. And a small but good quality battery amp and effects pedal concealed within the pack along with an ipod feed of backing tracks. A small gnome doll with a miniature harmonica would sit to the front of the hat for tips.
Today I went into Town all prepared to Busk for a couple of hours. The city was bedlam. Groups of carol singers everywhere. And, we had very loud thunderous rain and anywhere that was dry was noisy and overcrowded. So, I just finished my Christmas shopping.
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Hobostubs Ashlock
196 posts
Dec 20, 2009
8:59 PM
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A small gnome doll with a miniature harmonica would sit to the front of the hat for tips.Said Aussiesucker lol thats a cool idea.sounds like your getting ready to have some fun
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Aussiesucker
478 posts
Dec 20, 2009
9:12 PM
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Thanks Hobo. Re the doll I used a mini Santa with one of the mini Hohners. But when Christmas passes will be looking for something a bit more year round friendly. Perhaps a doll with flashing lights for eyes? Havn't seen what I want yet but sure to be something around that fits the bill.
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Kyzer Sosa
51 posts
Dec 20, 2009
10:43 PM
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Im in Nashville TN, so ummmm yeah....
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Kingley
557 posts
Dec 20, 2009
11:51 PM
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I find it quite frustrating here in the UK that we need to have a costly license for almost everything. I always think that these big out of town shopping areas, town, village and city centres, etc, would benefit hugely to the quality of life if they had entertainment. Whether it be street poets, musicians, jugglers, theatre. Something along the lines of places like Venice Beach and Maxwell Street.
It would seem to me that people would just "hang" more in those areas, and would therefore spend more money in the process due to the environment being more family friendly.
I just can't help but think that councils are really missing a marketing trick but not utilizing this aspect of life.
I have in the past spoken to a number of music shop owners and suggested that they have musicians play (on a rota of all various styles) outside their shop to entice people to it. An obvious attraction for a music shop, that I firmly believe would increase their business. If the musicians were playing for change (busking) then the only cost to the business would be the electric to any amps and maybe the odd cup of hot coffee for the musicians.
Yet every time I have suggested it to them, it just falls on deaf ears. Go figure!
Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2009 11:55 PM
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Max-T
33 posts
Dec 21, 2009
6:24 AM
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Like Mickil I also live in London, (quite close to Croydon actually :O) the licensing laws are ridiculous and change from borough to borough, so you need a permit from each borough that you are going to play in , if you want to play in the tube(subway) you then also have to audition and have a permit for that. I looked into it and quickly realised that it would take forever to go and actually get licences to do that sort of thing.
I think the only place close to me which might be remotely possible to busk in would be the south bank (although again you may need a special permit o_0 )
its funny, the only guy I've seen busking with a harp around here as been this one guy who busk's at Tottenham court road, and all he does is play bob dylan songs, it makes me sad.. I've often considered going up to him and asking to join in but I'm too much of a chicken...
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"imagination is more important then knowledge" - Albert Einstien
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Oliver
115 posts
Dec 21, 2009
8:24 AM
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Im all for anti-bureaucracy red tape bull shit, and agree 100% with what everyone seems to be saying. It would be an awful shame to have busking die out.
But out of curiosity, how hard is it to get the needed permits etc? What do you have to do for one?
Oh, Im in London too, Hackney. I don't know what the situation re permits is here, but I do know that I honestly can not remember the last time I saw someone busking here, now that I think of it.
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2009 8:25 AM
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nacoran
578 posts
Dec 21, 2009
10:28 AM
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They just passed a new fee and paperwork requirement for any venue not specifically catering to live performances up in Albany, N.Y. I don't think it would cover busking, but it covers any place that serves food or alcohol. $50 per event and paperwork has to be filled out 20 days in advance. It even covers amateur events like open mics and karaoke, even a juke box.
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mickil
742 posts
Dec 21, 2009
11:32 AM
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Oliver,
A few months ago, I spent ages trying to find the part on London Underground's website where you can apply for a permit. I think it took about 20-30 minutes to find it. Perhaps that was me being a bit of a div.
Anyway, all it said was something like. 'We are not currently accepting appliclations for busking permits.' I couldn't see any indication as to when they would be. Did I have to wait for someone to die? Dunno. I think the whole thing was one of Livingstone's PR stunts to show how much he cared - yeah, right. But that's just a guess.
I might look into it again, despite the huge pain in the arse it would be to get to the busking sites - I really can't stand the tube: it's unbearably overcrowded - but, I'm not looking forward to trying to find the web page again.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2009 11:34 AM
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mickil
743 posts
Dec 21, 2009
11:40 AM
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I was being a div before. I just found it in seconds:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/2435.aspx
Here's what it says and said months ago:
"Currently we have a full complement of buskers and are not considering new applications."
Oh well, hey ho.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2009 11:42 AM
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Blackbird
126 posts
Dec 21, 2009
12:09 PM
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Seattle, WA is alive and well with buskers and potential. Short of the Pike Place Market, where you have to have a permit to busk, the rest of the city allows it within limits of noise laws or sans amplification in city parks (Westlake comes to mind). Otherwise, Along 1st ave, Pike street, and Pioneer Square, or up on Broadway on Capitol Hill you'll find a handfull of them at any given time. Sadly, very few harmonica buskers are present. Those I've seen usually are people in very early stages of practice, based on their output, or merely making 'noise' with no musical value when they're really just panhandling vs. playing.
Occasionally, a harmonica player or one of a group is found, and I always throw a buck or few in the hat for that.
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mankycodpiece
34 posts
Dec 21, 2009
12:13 PM
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i mentioned in another thread that i was working on my 16 yeay old grandson to come busking with me next summer.
he plays guitar(i taught him)and i should be about ready myself by then.
anyway,he's up for it,but a little scared about it.what bothers him is maybe having to put up with morons in the street.that kind of thing has happened to me inthe past,but,as i've told timmy,you can't live your life in fear.
i haven't been busking for years.i was at it all the time where ever i was.
busking is great fun,and,if you're youngish,absolutely terrific for pulling the girls.(this bit interests my grandson.)
the UK is sinking under piles of bureaucrasy and political correctness.i didn't know a permit is required.
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mickil
744 posts
Dec 21, 2009
12:58 PM
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"the UK is sinking under piles of bureaucrasy and political correctness."
My God, you can say that again. It's rapidly becoming some kind of Orwellian nightmare. If it were practical, I'd leave. I hate it.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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oldwailer
975 posts
Dec 21, 2009
1:04 PM
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Crap! The one travel adventure I've always wanted to do (as soon as I win the lotto) is to go to the UK. It just fascinates me--I watch all the BBC stuff I can get. I guess it's just in my blood--English on both sides.
Now you tell me it's a damn bluerockracy!
Here in the US, there are many places where busking is controlled--but I've never been bothered, I just play in little podunk towns though--not enough balls to go for the big time--like Adam did in Harlem!
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2009 1:07 PM
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mickil
747 posts
Dec 21, 2009
1:13 PM
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oldwailer,
I wanna go to the US on a kind of blues pilgrimage. I've got to check out where you can smoke in bars first, though. That shit has killed my social life here. I think it's currently just over 50 pubs a week close here, either in London or Blighty, I can't remember which. Except for jams, I don't go out anymore. No point in flying 3000 miles just to stay in. I can do that here.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2009 1:17 PM
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mankycodpiece
37 posts
Dec 21, 2009
1:15 PM
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oldwailer,visiting the UK is no problem.It's the living here that sucks.
I could tell you what they teach kids in schools but i'd just get all pissed off,so i won't bother.Brits are leaving in droves.If i was younger,i'd join them.
Some great places to visit though.
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oldwailer
976 posts
Dec 21, 2009
1:29 PM
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Well, Mickil--I lived down in Floriduh for a few years--and you could still smoke down there--and I think in most of the south--(the real blues tenderloin in the US) you can still smoke--These are states where tobacco is a major source of income.
I'm not sure of this though--since I quit smoking at the stroke of the year 2000 and I don't care about that anymore--except maybe when I catch a wonderful whiff of a good cigar--but most people nowadays only smoke the generic stuff that is two parts crappy tobacco and two parts dog doo doo. . .
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Stickman
10 posts
Dec 21, 2009
1:33 PM
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Sorry mickil I'm sure that smoking ban sucks. When I was a smoker I couldn't imagine not firing up in a bar. Unfortunately smoking bans have been legislated in many states across our free country. I know you can cross Virginia off your places to visit.
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The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2009 1:34 PM
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Buzadero
228 posts
Dec 21, 2009
1:34 PM
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Mickil,
You'll probably have to be a bit flexible on the smoking thing.
Determine your Blues Pilgimage itinerary, the n overlay it to the following list of US smoking ban details by State:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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toddlgreene
273 posts
Dec 21, 2009
1:45 PM
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In Louisiana, if it's considered primarily a restaurant-no smoking(I greatly appreciate that in a non-bar setting, since I'm a nonsmoker). If it's a bar that happens to serve food-loophole!
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~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
"listen to what you like for inspiration, but find your own voice"
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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mickil
748 posts
Dec 21, 2009
2:06 PM
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Thanks for all the info, fellas. I'll be sure to do heaps of research before jumping on a plane. Todd, I'm with you on the restaurant thing. Bars are hell for me, though. Maybe I should become a British MP. I think they've still got a smoking bar. You couldn't make that shit up.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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tookatooka
905 posts
Dec 21, 2009
2:22 PM
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Mickil, I'll bet you'd have no problem busking in the entrance to say Sainsburys or Tescos just so long as you had a white beard, wore a red suit and had a bucket with half the proceeds going to a charity.
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mickil
749 posts
Dec 21, 2009
2:35 PM
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HA HA HA ! or lol in the web speak. That did make me laugh.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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