mickil
760 posts
Dec 27, 2009
8:13 AM
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I know that when a lot of players are starting out, they're advised to get a SP20, or something with recessed reed plates 'cos they are supposed to be easier on the lips.
It's true that your harp won't look like a blood-soaked horror film in no time, but there is another problem I've come across since I've started using them quite a bit: unless I've had very little that would natuarally dry the mouth - coffee, alcohol (especially red wine) tobacco - all the fun stuff, then my mouth sticks to the plastic, not the cover plates, like crazy.
It's driving me nuts. I think it's because there is such a large surface area of the lips that are in contact with the mouth piece; it's different with a sandwhich MB type design, where most of the mouth piece (the hole dividers) is actually recessed behind the reed plates.
I know that stress, anxiety, that kind of thing, can make it worse, but I'm not especially stressed. I can play MB style harps no problem.
Aside from becoming a monk and quitting all the fun things, I think it may be time to quit SP20s, which is a shame 'cos I like them a lot.
Any thoughts, people. Thanks in advance.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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nacoran
607 posts
Dec 27, 2009
10:33 AM
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Lick the harmonica along the front right before you start playing. It may not look dignified but it helps.
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mickil
762 posts
Dec 27, 2009
10:38 AM
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Thanks, nacoran. I thought I was, but, now you come to mention it, I'm only in the habit of wetting the covers. I'd better consume some of the bad, fun stuff and test your suggestion.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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tookatooka
923 posts
Dec 27, 2009
12:59 PM
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May sound daft Mickil but it may help if you introduced more tongue work/blocking into a tune so the tongue keeps the plastic comb moist. Just a thought, you may be doing that already. You're not dehydrated are you? Too much sauce?
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mickil
763 posts
Dec 27, 2009
1:51 PM
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Too much sauce? Might be tooka. But, seriously, whatever it is, sloppy embouchure, what have you, I hope I can crack it. I really do like 20s.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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Aussiesucker
485 posts
Dec 27, 2009
2:36 PM
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Mickil> have not experienced mouth sticking to the plastic but have found in particular with Lee Oskar harps that the cover plates stick and drag unless heavily moistened. Are you putting the harp far enough into your mouth? Might be a silly question but years into my harp playing I changed my embouchure to position the harp further into the mouth. At first I thought that it would be more difficult hitting single notes - but no. Puckering and not putting the harp deeper into the mouth I think tends to bring the lips more into contact with the comb.
I think the recessed reed plates are much kinder on the lips & more comfortable but not necessarily easier to play.
A few days ago I had to pension off an A Harpmaster that has given faithful daily service for close to 2 years. It was not broken & in fact it played perfect but all the shiny stainless steel look had badly tarnished and in parts the cover plates had a brassy look.
I developed some blisters on my lips. So I gave the harp a rest for a day or so but when I again picked it up the blisters quickly re appeared. I realised that what I had dreaded was the nickel allergy had resurfaced possibly due to some leaching out from the badly worn cover plates?
So I broke open a brand new A Harpmaster and voila -no more problems. Hell, I was relieved!
I will, one day, get around to replacing the covers so I can re commission my old harp.
Well, Im off on vacation, to the beach but, its pouring rain & the forecast looks bad for the next week. Looks like I will be playing the harp for amusement. Whats different?
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tookatooka
925 posts
Dec 27, 2009
2:56 PM
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@Aussiesucker@ I'm surprised. I would have thought the coverplates were solid stainless steel. Hardly seems worthwhile to use a plated metal when solid couldn't be that more expensive. When I customised my Delta Frost coverplates, I cut into the metal and was not aware of any color differences.
Is there a metalurgist in the house?
Whatsmore isn't it time the manufacturers stated the materials used? Just about everything else we put in our mouths has a list of contents?
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mickil
768 posts
Dec 27, 2009
3:36 PM
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Thanks, Aussie. Yeah, I've worked very hard at the stuff you pointed out in your first paragraph. The thumbs up grip seems to work best in that regard. But, I don't like it 'cos I have to switch for wahs.
Like tooka, I'm a bit surprised about your suzi covers. I'm gonna do some reading and come back on that one. Very strange. I thought they were commercial stainless steel, which, if memory serves, can have no more than about 2% nickel in it. Someone put me straight if I've remembered that wrong.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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Aussiesucker
486 posts
Dec 27, 2009
4:03 PM
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Tooka & Mickil > Could be that the tarnishing was over time caused by my regular cleaning using a denture tablet & daily rubbing with alcohol wipes?
I know with the reed plates, which I immerse side by side in a tumbler with only an end out of the cleanser, come out all shiny new but with a distinct line across the top few mm which were not immersed?
Would love to seek some clarity on this issue relating to nickel? Hohner were very good in advising that none of their diatonics have had any nickel for about 10 years. Suzuki did not respond to any emails I sent on the issue, but I recall reading that the only Suzi harp that has nickel cover plates is the Easy Rider.
There is nickel everywhere ie ok if there is protective coating but if the coating is broken then the nickel will leach out. I recall reading that it was a problem with surgical implants ie nickel must have properties that make its use necessary but it must be coated to prevent reactions?
I'm not complaining ie 2 years daily playing is a good run from any harp & I won't be modifying my cleansing regime other than to make sure that the denture tablets I use are harmless to metal.I started using a Steradent product that did say it was ok for metals but of late I have been using Polident & it makes no mention use with metals.
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mankycodpiece
41 posts
Dec 28, 2009
3:56 AM
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Aussie,i like the denture tablets idea.
so how long do you soak the harps,and how many tablets do you use.
i always clean my teeth if i've had something to eat if i've had something to eat before i play,and swill out my mouth if i've had a cofee,wine or whatever maybe a bit sticky.which worked out the best of the two products?
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mickil
769 posts
Dec 28, 2009
4:15 AM
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Aussie,
I don't have the time right now to read this in detail:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel
But, the little I did read could mean that those dental things might have a corrosive effect on stainless steel. I should rephrase that: stainless steel is resistant to air and water; however, I'm not sure about other chemicals.
nacoran,
Thanks again for the suggestion. This morning, so far so good. Though, I feel like a bit of a pillock for not thinking of it myself!
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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barbequebob
262 posts
Dec 28, 2009
11:55 AM
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One thing that needs to be mentioned that with all harps, included those with reed plates recessed into the comb like Sp20's and LO's, they do NEED to be cleaned off periodically because layers of dead skin and saliva will get built up very quickly and when these dry, they can form large enough clusters that are sharp enough to cut the living crap out of your lips and I would recommend cleaning those mouthpieces as well as the cover plates at least once a month or better yet, every two weeks.
I personally find that the recessed reedplate setup causes me to play much more with a wet mouth than the more standard set up does, and so I find that it really isn't any kinder than the more standard setup is, but either way, it is VERY IMPORTANT to keep them clean (and don't slobber in your harps all the time).
What I use to clean them is get a lint free paper towel (no bargain brands because they almost always leave lint) and put some isoporopyl alcohol, preferrably 91% by volume, which is available at any retail drug store for cheap money, and clean it out with that. In fact, LO recommends doing this with any isoporpyl alcohol product, but i find 91% tends to do a much better job of both cleaning and sterilizing than the more commonly used 70% by volume.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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congaron
366 posts
Dec 28, 2009
12:04 PM
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I use listerine or a generic equivalent. The dried skin sandpaper effect is very real and I learned this the hard way.
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barbequebob
263 posts
Dec 28, 2009
12:08 PM
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When I tried out a Special 20 when they first came out around 1974/75, I found that out the hard way myself as well and so anyone who thinks this tuff never happens on plastic combed harps, especially if the reedplates are recessed into the comb, you now know it is a myth that they're believing in.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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toddlgreene
293 posts
Dec 28, 2009
12:30 PM
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you guys are right. That crud is brutal. Never thought it would be comprised of dead skin, but it makes sense. This is the stuff I use and mention in the harp-cleaning thread(oh, and we used to drink it when we'd go hunting in the winter when I was a kid-NOT recommended ;-D). Awesome antiseptic.
http://www.drtichenor.com/main.html
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~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
"listen to what you like for inspiration, but find your own voice"
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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Oisin
404 posts
Dec 28, 2009
6:25 PM
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A little oral lubrication works wonders Mickil. A dab of Vaseline ( the ONLY time I'd advise not using a water based lubricatant) or lipbalm really helps. As always, just a little. Things can tend to slip to the wrong hole if you use too much. (add your own "lubricant/hole comment here).
Really though, I play special 20s and it works wonders especially when you've got cotton mouth from smoking a little inspiration.
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Kyzer Sosa
57 posts
Dec 29, 2009
4:43 AM
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Oddly enough, I have only experienced lip dragging, dry mouth on wood combed harps. I prefer the 20's because I rarely have that problem with them. Tongue blocking more has helped me out ten fold...I got a Manji for Xmas, and it seems to be in the same cat as the 20's with that half wood, half plastic resin comb it has...Oh Id buy the set of Manji's if it wouldnt cost so much to replace my 20's
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mickil
771 posts
Dec 29, 2009
4:53 AM
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Thanks for all the advice, fellas.
It does seem to be improving, though, it does vary with the time of day. Body chemistry, I suppose.
I did think that it might be an unclean mouth piece, as BBQBOB suggested. But, I can't tell any difference between my much played A and my hardly played at all G. So, in my case at least, that doesn't seem to be the culprit.
I do keep the covers smooth and shiny. I just use those little Seydel cloths an some spit. They come up an absolute treat.
Two things that seem to be making a difference are:
a) couner-intuitively, not pushing the harp deep into my mouth. It seems that when I just let it fall away a little, three things happen: 1) my whole embouchure is more relaxed and less sticky, 2) the 6OB pops out with a hell of a lot more ease, even on my G, which I've never got it on before, and; 3) my thumb under the harp isn't nearly as intrusive as it was before.
b) not lazily sitting back in my Captain Kirk style office chair. I know it sounds silly, but as soon as I sit up or stand up, gravity seems to put any moisture where I want it to be.
Today, my playing feels great. I hope it stays that way.
Thanks again for your comments.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
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Aussiesucker
489 posts
Jan 04, 2010
8:48 PM
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Have been away surfing at the beach hence the delay in my reply-
Manky> I usually only leave them in the denture cleanser for about 10 to 15 mins ie same instructions as cleaning dentures. There is a steradent tablet that specifically states it is suitable for use with metals ie some partial dentures have metal bands on them. I then rinse reed plates in clean water.
Mickil> Thanks for the info on stainless steel. I now will only wash the covers in dishwashing detergent.
On a daily basis I always wipe the harps I have played with a Kendall Webcol Skin Cleansing Alcohol Wipe. These are a cheap & convenient way of keeping the harps clean. I buy them from the local pharmacy in boxes of 200 sachets. Thes wipes are the same as used by medicos to cleanse skin before giving a needle. One wipe will do 3 to 5 harps.
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