GermanHarpist
831 posts
Dec 27, 2009
3:36 PM
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I've been thinking about it some time now and it somehow seems obviously true... here comes the question:
Does the blow reed perform the same action when bending as the draw reed does while overblowing?
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germanharpist on YT. =;-)
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jonsparrow
1509 posts
Dec 27, 2009
5:45 PM
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that question makes my head hurt.
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barbequebob
256 posts
Dec 27, 2009
10:01 PM
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Whenever you bend a note, or do overblows, it`s always the opposite reed doing it. Lee Oskar makes mention of this in the instruction booklet included in his tool kit. To prove this, first remove BOTH coverplates from the harp. Then play 4 draw without a bend and then attempt the bend. Now place a finger on 4 blow and right away the bend will no longer play and right away you will see that it`s the blow reed actually doing the bending. If you were to do a bend on 9 blow and do the same thing on the 9 draw, the exact same thing will happen. With OB`s, it`s the exact opposite. This is a big reason why on harps from key of D and higher, 4 blow is often the very 1st reed to get blown out.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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GermanHarpist
832 posts
Dec 28, 2009
12:39 AM
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The question was if it was the same action that was performed...
It makes sense as in that it starts vibrating with the opposite air stream and that it vibrates at an higher pitch as it's harmonic frequency.
However this would mean too that, i.e. when bending hole two or three, you approach the "overdraw" in a bend form. And the further you bend down the more you release the bend on that "overdraw"...
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germanharpist on YT. =;-)
Last Edited by on Dec 28, 2009 3:40 PM
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Pimpinella
8 posts
Dec 28, 2009
4:15 AM
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Well, i think the answer is yes and no. In both cases you need a standing wave to make the reed(s) swing apart from their harmonic frequency. However in case of the bend both reeds on the hole work as a system. Even if the closing reed seems to be still on a very deep bend it's still swinging slightly and it never chokes like the closing reed while playing an overbend.
So yes, bending and overblowing are the same up to some point, but no, a very deep bend will not turn into an overblow at some point.
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GermanHarpist
835 posts
Dec 28, 2009
4:32 AM
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Thanks for the thorough answer Pimpinella.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-)
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barbequebob
261 posts
Dec 28, 2009
11:45 AM
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Pimpinella basically re-explained what I was already saying, that the reeds work together as a pair during the note bending process in a diatonic harmonica.
With chromatics, having both reeds valved, because of the valve, they don't work as a pair and the valve isolates the reed (obviously, you now have an isolated bend). Since both reeds have the valves, they allow generally not more than 1/4 step bend BUT you have to ease your way into it and if you play it as hard as too many players tend to play their diatonic harps, they will choke up and blank out on you in a hurry (NOTE: on chromatics with tight slot tolerances like most Herings, you can get close to 1/2 step, but again, you have to EASE your way into it).
The half valved diatonics uses a combination of both, meaning that the normal bends on the diatonics works the same way unvalved as a pair, but the valved reed is able to bend because the valve works like a chromatic giving you the isolated bend. However, it is VERY IMPORTANT to be aware that once you put the valve in, the harmonica will react much like a chromatic in the fact that it becomes FAR more sensitive to breath force and trying to bend the note really hard like too many diatonic players tend to do will, just like a chromatic, make the reed choke up and blank out.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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GermanHarpist
837 posts
Dec 28, 2009
3:06 PM
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BBQbob, nope.
"Even if the closing reed seems to be still on a very deep bend it's still swinging slightly and it never chokes like the closing reed while playing an overbend."
Btw. if you look at the Harpfriends YT-videos you'll notice that very few of us (none that I can think of) actually play with a lot of breath force...
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germanharpist on YT. =;-)
Last Edited by on Dec 28, 2009 3:12 PM
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harpwrench
133 posts
Dec 28, 2009
3:14 PM
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You can put your thumb over the lower draw reeds and play the bottom bend in that hole, yes it is working like an overdraw then.
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GermanHarpist
838 posts
Dec 28, 2009
3:40 PM
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However this would mean that when draw bending you approach the "overdraw" in a bend form. And the further you bend down the more you release the bend on that "overdraw"...
... and what about this statement?
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germanharpist on YT. =;-)
Last Edited by on Dec 28, 2009 3:44 PM
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harpwrench
135 posts
Dec 28, 2009
4:57 PM
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I'm not clear what you mean by releasing the bend...the draw reed (in a draw bend)is still vibrating slightly during the lowest bend, like Pimpinella suggests.
Incidentally this train of thought can be applied while setting up (and diagnosing) your harps. Try isolating the opposing reed with your finger, and see how far down you can bend the other note before choking/squealing. It can be helpful in figuring out which reed might not be contributing enough to normal bending.
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GermanHarpist
841 posts
Dec 29, 2009
6:12 AM
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What I mean by "releasing the bend" is that the more you bend the draw note, the more the "overdraw" sounds. That means that the "overdraw" starts to sound bent up and the further you bend the draw note down the more the "overdraw" bend is released until it sounds at it's lowest frequency.
Now, to your second parpgraph: You say that bending the single reeds can be used to diagnose/setting up a harp (i.e. draw bending the draw reed and blow bending the blow reed). Wouldn't it be more sensible to overdraw the blow reed as this is actually what physically happens when draw bending?
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germanharpist on YT. =;-)
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