Seems there are a lot of rap haters on the board. Personally I like a lot of rap and hip hop music (not the gun totin' misogynistic gangsta stuff though).
Anyway I was thinking that rap as a musical for is far older than the Sugarhill Gang, and I was thiking of guys like John Lee Hooker talking lyrics over a heavily rhythmic backing. A quick trip to Wikipaedia turned this up:
Blues music, rooted in the work songs and spirituals of slavery and influenced greatly by West African musical traditions, was first played by blacks (and some whites) in the Mississippi Delta region of the United States around the time of the Emancipation Proclamation. Grammy-winning blues musician/historian Elijah Wald and others have argued that the blues were being rapped as early as the 1920s. Wald went so far as to call hip hop "the living blues." Jazz, which developed from the blues and other African-American and European musical traditions and originated around the beginning of the 20th century, has also influenced hip hop and has been cited as a precursor of hip hop. Not just jazz music and lyrics but also Jazz poetry. According to John Sobol, the jazz musician and poet who wrote Digitopia Blues, rap "bears a striking resemblance to the evolution of jazz both stylistically and formally."
it might be me but i think the harp works great with rap type beats,Ive recorded a few playing around and think the groove is as harp friendly as the blues can be.
is that where they beat box with a harp,What ive heard sounds good,but i feel a groove alot in the beat of a lot of rap style music that a harp playing standard type licks fits good into but that just might be me hearing things again,What was was that you said oh ok lol
i just put my 1st song on a site that sells you mp3 download and it was a rap type beat with harp i done with free acid loops and some real bass and harp and lyricks,i chose it cause with the loops it really recorded well,sound wise and just wanted to check out the website,the rap catogory is huge though but its different that most the rap on there hell it has harp on it.That makes it cool even if i never sell any downloads lol
One of the things that struck me about the movie Cadillac Records was how they brought out the the parallels between the stars of the blues and modern rappers.
It's 30 years since the Sugarhill Gang hit the charts - rap isn't modern! The term rap now encompasses so many sub-genres that it is almost meaningless, in the same way that describing music as a rock could cover anything from Led Zep to Slipknot.
One thing that keeps coming is that "rap is not music" -why not? because it isn't sung?
In that case is this not music? (forget the politics of the video clip, just listen!)
or how 'bout this mostly spoken tune...
Neither is rap, but both are (mostly) spoken and to my ears very musical.
C'mon rap haters! join in the debate!
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2010 4:51 PM
"i like rap as long as the rapper is a good lyricist an dosnt rap about clubs money bitchs and big rims."
I generally agree with this statement, but in the interest of playing devil's advocate and furthering the intent of the OP's ideas for this thread, I humbly submit that much of our beloved "Chicago style" blues songs are about: "clubs" (jook joints, nightclubs, etc.), "money" (as in getting, or not getting, paid), "bitches" (generally referred too by other euphemisms in blues, but with the same intended meaning as that of the term "bitches" as generally used in modern hip hop parlance), and "rims" (if we interpret the term as refering to expensive and fancy automobiles, esp. the Cadillac).
I personally love a lot of rap as well, and it does go way back. I've been looking at ways to bring harp to those beats as well. I found a digital drum at a garage sale so I'll be having some fun.
I don't dig the harp box vids so much...cool, but it leaves me yearning for the intensity that a harp could truly bring. I'm hearing jazz, blues, funk, and reggae over a hip hop beat.
I can't stand it. Rap and Barney the purple dinosaur both sound about the same. But hey, every ones different. I'll just leave the room when that comes through the tube.
It might come down to an age Demographics , kids now grow up completly with rap were most of us it was Introduced to later in life Im 29 so I didnt hear much till I was around 12 and in a small town in Ontario it didnt go over well , I do like some of it but most I think just makes the rapper look like a money hungry , women abusing idiot.On the plus side I have never heard of R.L burnside before and Its pretty good could use some harp though
I like rap when no one is 'singing' and the band is using real instruments.
I feel what jon is saying when he says, "i like rap as long as the rapper is a good lyricist an dosnt rap about clubs money bitchs and big rims ". Unfortunately that's most of what MTV/mainstream rap is.
I also think that guy beatboxing that you posted is terrible especially comparison with the spah beatbox thing from '09 (yeah, get used to it, 2009 in the past tense ;) ).
---------- ~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Actually, I fully understood what Jon was getting at, and I fully agree with Jon too. I was just trying to put a little perspective on it, however. It's less the specific content of a song, and more the intent of a song. There is A LOT of misogynistic, egotistical, non-artistic, crap that get's lumped in the genre of "rap" (btw, I prefer the term hip-hop, and I think serious hip-hop artists do too). But there is a lot of that kind of content in pretty much EVERY genre of music too (yes, even blues). You just can't make blanket statements like "i hate rap" because one day you are going to be listening to the radio or music on the computer or whatever, and you are going to here a hip-hop song, and you are going to be like "damn, that was awesome! I have been a hypocrite and an idiot, and I have been missing out on some good music!". Trust me, I've felt this way. First it was with country music. I hated it, and would repeatedly refuse to listen to anything country. Then I heard Johnny Cash and Woody Guthrie. And then I heard Ryan Adams. I love that music! I still hate all that Garth Brooks crap though. I also used to say that about rap. Then I heard Diggable Planets. Then I heard the Roots. Then I heard Outkast. Then I heard Spearhead. Then I heard Lauren Hill... Then I heard... etc. Do I absolutely love Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre? No. Do I think their music is sometimes reprehensible? Yes. But do I still sometimes bop my head to Bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay? Yes. I could say that "I hate gangsta rap" too, but then there's some examples from Tupac's catalog, from Biggie Small's catalog, etc., and I realize that in amongst the "bitches and ho's" and other braggart claims are some nuggets of socially conscious music that's meaningful and artistic.
It's the same with the lyrics of many blues songs. In between the "When I get my baby in my sight. Boom. Boom. Out go the lights." are those bits of socially conscious, meaningful, and artistic poetry that we all love. And the music is good too! Same with many rap songs (it's not all casio keyboards, samples, and drum machines).
For those of you that's seen "Cadillac Records". Try this. Watch that movie again, and then immediately watch that Biggie Smalls movie "Notorious" that came out about the same time. There are some very eerie parallels between the life stories of cats like Muddy and Little Walter with the life of Biggie Smalls. ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2010 9:14 PM
Issacullah- Is Woody Guthrie considered country? I would have considered him more folk, or maybe I'm thinking of Arlo.
My 'stepfather' was in the same protective custody wing as Tupac! And I just posted a link to an Outkast cover in the music that drives me crazy thread. (Not as one that drives me crazy. I love the cover and don't mind the original.
I bought the Beastie Boys' License to Kill album when I was 12 years old. Until that very moment, I had been inundated with my mothers country music, and my fathers oldies station. It was all I had known. Rap music introduced me to the world of R&B, today I cherish that genre more than any other. Rap, specifically, Run DMC, NWA, etc, the EARLY ones... led me to the likes of Smokey Robinson, Luther Vandross, and a slew of others from yesterday to what you hear on the radio today. I know now, it was the groove, way more than any words, that hooked me on that music. Adult contemporary R&B. I like it all. As you can imagine, by default, it led me to the blues... i too, see the correlation between rap music and blues. in both, they speak of things they dont have, or would like to have, or would like us to believe they have. to me, yes, there are great similarities...
Well, I'm 45 and was a teenager when "Rappers Delight" hit the scene. A young, white suburban kid growing up in a town where you could count on one hand the black kids I went to high school with. I was immediately taken by Rappers Delight. It was new (to me), different and cool.
Over the years I've been very open to different genre of music. I have always found Rap/Hip Hop very interesting at the very least. Some I absolutely love, some I hate. It's very polarizing. I think that, if I had to point out the ONE difference between the rap I enjoy and don't enjoy it would be in the creativity of the musician.
I enjoy groups like NWA, Beastie Boys, Cypress Hill, Kid Rock, etc. because they seem more talented. When I turn on the radio and hear some group simply rapping over the melody of an old hit record it turns me off. The hit by Kid Rock over the Warren Zevon tune is NOT my favorite KR tune precisely for that reason, although I don't hate it.
It seems to me that some of these rappers have no musical talent. Sure they can put rhyming schemes together but so can my 12 year old daughter. I guess I just don't appreciate their creativity.
I think the parallels between rap and the blues are very interesting and something I'm going to look at a little closer.
---------- "Take out your false teeth, momma, I want to suck on your gums."-P. Wolf
i enjoyed some of the old stuff posted on here,but i wouldn't call it rap. my own view of todays rap,is to cram as many meaningless words into the smallest space.is don't matter what it says,as long as it rhymes. i can't see that it takes a lot of ability to do that. this may be a narrow view,then again i like edward elgar,so it won't come as a surprise. rl burnside and lighnin'hopkins isn't rap,well,not to my ears anyway. i did once listen to aminems ,i think it's called lose yourself,which had a bit of drama with the rhythm,but thats about it.
Rap is just another variant of expressing one's self.
I generally find that the Rap I don't like is the rap where I don't care for the message (Copkilla, etc). The rap I like the best is the rap that has a message I can identify with.
I know that most of what's posted here isn't rap - that's the point really. My original post was to try and point out that hiphop has musical roots in the blues and trying to encourage folks here to be a little more open minded towards it. Yes, there is a lot of very bad rap music around - which as other posters have pointed out is very commercially driven - unfortunately MTV and radio is full of it. Isn't that the same with all genres of music? There is an extensive back catalogue of far more creative rap music and there are contemporary groups who don't get the exposure because they are not as commercially driven
I guess my intention was over optimistic. I just wanted to encourage the 'rap is crap' brigade to be a little more analytical and explain WHY they don't like it and maybe even possibly encourage them to be less dissmissive of what is IMO an artform with humour, intelligence, a moral position, musicality, linguistic skill and credibility.
MrVerylongusername,you're right,it is a long name. i'm just an ol' bloke thats heard the stuff on the radio,when i had no choise) i'm into melody.i like a good song with a good intelligable lyric that says something,even better if it's something that hasn't been done to death.i like some progressions i like something that moves me,or gives me a bit of rhythm in my old bones. i don't care for the stuff i hear from this lot these days with it's violence and,lets face it,who does more bitchin' than 50 cent and some of the others i've wasted my time in actualy listening to. i wouldn't close my mind to anything.if it's good to me,i'll have some.if it aint good.......
The reason I don't consider rap music is not the rapping but the lack of instruments and musicianship in general. I actually like rapcore; once you add guitar, bass and drums it sounds like music.
My eldest son used to listen to rap 90% of the time. When he got into playing drums he did an about face and exclusively listens to and plays a form of music where drums are most prominent and which he used to make fun of me for listening to: screamo metal. He realized that while rap my have rhythm it didn't have drums or other instruments.
Remember this: for a long time the harmonica wasn't considered a legitimite instrument and the Musician's Union didn't accept harp players as members of the union until the late 40's, when Jerry Murad's Harmonicats had the hit "Peg O' My Heart," so there's a bit of a generational thing happening here. There are still some who will not consider harmonica as a legit instrument even now. About the only thing with rap/hiphop I don't care for is the volume of the bass (and this is also true of a Latin music style with tons of the hiphop elements in it called reggaeton).
Some of the very same things being said about rap, white audiences once said about rock, blue,s soul, etc., and so that's all personal taste. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
These guys started out playing 'real' instruments live (personally I consider synths, samplers and turntables to be instruments too when they are used creatively)
Here's some food for thought. Consider the lyrics to the oscar winning hip-hop song "It's hard out here for a pimp" by 3-6-Mafia fromt he movie Hustle and Flow (Link to Wikipedia about the song
[Chorus 2X: Shug - singing] + (Djay) You know it's hard out here for a pimp (you ain't knowin) When he tryin to get this money for the rent (you ain't knowin) For the Cadillacs and gas money spent (you ain't knowin) [1] Because a whole lot of bitches talkin shit (you ain't knowin) [2] Will have a whole lot of bitches talkin shit (you ain't knowin)
[Djay] In my eyes I done seen some crazy thangs in the streets Gotta couple hoes workin on the changes for me But I gotta keep my game tight like Kobe on game night Like takin from a ho don't know no better, I know that ain't right Done seen people killed, done seen people deal Done seen people live in poverty with no meals It's fucked up where I live, but that's just how it is It might be new to you, but it's been like this for years It's blood sweat and tears when it come down to this shit I'm tryin to get rich 'fore I leave up out this bitch I'm tryin to have thangs but it's hard fo' a pimp But I'm prayin and I'm hopin to God I don't slip, yeah
[Chorus]
[Djay] Man it seems like I'm duckin dodgin bullets everyday Niggaz hatin on me cause I got, hoes on the tray But I gotta stay paid, gotta stay above water Couldn't keep up with my hoes, that's when shit got harder North Memphis where I'm from, I'm 7th Street bound Where niggaz all the time end up lost and never found Man these girls think we prove thangs, leave a big head They come hopin every night, they don't end up bein dead Wait I got a snow bunny, and a black girl too You pay the right price and they'll both do you That's the way the game goes, gotta keep it strictly pimpin Gotta have my hustle tight, makin change off these women, yeah
[Chorus]
Now I'm not the worlds biggest fan or proponent of rap/hip hop. In general, it's not my favorite music. But Blues is. And tracing music history, the evolution of genres, the social connections, and tying it all to pop-cultural movements is one of my favorite things to do. To me, "It's hard out here for a Pimp", is a new incarnation of the Blues. An evolved form of the Blues. There's so much Blues style, ethos, subjects in the song. There's references to Cadillacs, Call and Response, Repetition, the whole "I gotta laugh just to keep from crying" thing Adam writes about, Violence, the African American's response to violence and oppression, hustling, etc. It's just SO blues to me that I can't hardly stand it! Damn! For example the one couplet: "North Memphis where I'm from, I'm 7th Street bound\Where niggaz all the time end up lost and never found" just reminds me so much of blues lines like the old standard "I'm Alabama bound". Or even better, the Muddy Waters' (with Little Walter) song "Louisiana Blues" "I'm goin' down in Louisiana,\ Baby, behind the sun.\ I'm goin' down in Louisiana,\ Baby, behind the sun.\ Well, you know I just found out\ My trouble just begun".
It's just amazing how these themes just keep resurfacing...
"Don't change the dizzle, turn it up a little I've got a living room full of fine dime brizzels waiting on the Pizzel, the Dizzel and the Schizzel G's to the bizzack, now ladies here we gizzo"
In the other thread referenced in the OP I complained about the lack of rhyming in modern praise and worship music: maybe they could hire Snot Doggy Poo Poo to rhyme for them, and in turn they could teach him the English language!
@Honkin' OK, but how is that different from the jive talking hipsters of the 40s and 50s?
and if you want intelligence in lyrics how about this from Boogie Down Productions?
"Drug dealer, understand historical fact Every race got ahead from sellin drugs except Black We are under attack, here comes another cold fact In the 30's and 40's a drug dealer wasn't black They were Jewish, Italian, Irish, Polish, etc. etc. Now in 90 their live's a lot better They'll sell you a sweater, a pair of pants cold hearted But first sellin drugs and killin people is how they started Drug dealer, black and Hispanic, stop killin one another Cause in the ghetto we're all brothers Organized economically, understand the psychology America is the drug monopoly They own the block and kill your brother for Therefore, we got the same enemy - what's more, I go on tour But who do you think picks up the bill? A hard workin fireman? Chill"
While I appreciate your attempt to intellectualize the question of whether rap is good or bad, or if it is even music; in the end what we're really arguing is a matter of taste. I do appreciate your keeping the conversation civil and I will do the same.
I can tell that you're an excellent debater. Someone brings up the subject matter of rap's lyrics and you point to similar material in the blues. Someone talks about rap being spoken and you offer some of John Lee Hooker's material. I've heard these retorts myself many times and hence I refrained from making those arguments. Of course I could point to Hooker's Hobo Blues, that you can pull up on youtube, where he clearly "sings" the blues; and ask you where do NWA "sing" anything? But then maybe you pull up an obscure track where they actually DO sing, or maybe a track from a different rapper who "sings" aided by studio effects (isn't that the rap - no pun intended - on Kanye West?). And on and on we go,chasing each others tails. Where does that leave us? I don't know.
I do know this. For me, on balance (which means one example to the contrary does not negate my statement),I don't hear any of the humor,intelligence or musicality in rap that you ascribe to it. I listend to the Boo-Yah track you linked to and five others by them on youtube. Yeah, there was a little background musicality, but it was completely dominated by the boom-boom (or as Aussiesucker refers to it: the doof-doof) of the bass and the angry shouted lyrics that alternatively told me how great the rapper was and how I would be killed for, as far as I can tell, looking at the rapper the wrong way. There was also a track in which they apparently don't like MC's, whatever that is. I know, I know... Muddy had Mannish Boy and the Blues is often a violent culture. But to me, Muddy had far more style and the bluesmen, well I always felt their violence had to be somehow provoked (blues historians who love rap: feel free to pummel me with counter examples).
I'm still trying to understand how today's rapper has "moral position". It seems to me that the rap hip-hop culture is closely associated with gang/thug culture. BTW, to rappers that's not an insult. They celebrate their gang/thug ID in, well, rap. In fact, doesn't this tie into thier credibility or "cred" as they descibe it?
So in the end, it's toe-MAY-toe...toe-MAH-toe. You see musicality and the other stuff in rap......me? not so much. The beauty is, neither of us have to listen to what we don't like...well I do, sort of. I live in the city where even in your own apartment you can't escape the doof-doof. Still I'm not for censorship...if we let them come for rap...they'll soon be coming for rock and roll, the blues and who knows what else. I'd break out my sledgehammer...but in the immortal paraphrased words of Sean Connery's character in The Untouchables: that'd be like "bringing a knife to a gunfight".
The last word is yours.
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2010 9:50 AM
"I'm still trying to understand how today's rapper has "moral position". It seems to me that the rap hip-hop culture is closely associated with gang/thug culture. BTW, to rappers that's not an insult. They celebrate their gang/thug ID in, well, rap. In fact, doesn't this tie into thier credibility or "cred" as they descibe it?"
This is a bit of a "blanket statement". If you's just added the caveat "today's popular rappers" or "today's gangsta rappers" or something like that, then I'd have to agree with you. In response, I'd refer you to hip hop bands (yes bands) like Diggable Planets, Tribe Called Quest, The Roots, The Fugies and others who do not at all fit the statement you made. Here are a couple of songs that directly speak to this, and there are many more. You just won't find them playing in heavy rotation on todays MTV or BET or any pop radio station.
And there is real "singing" in these videos too.
And there are many many more "underground" hip hop bands producing very musical and forward thinking, socially concious music. they just don't get the airplay of that "other" type of hip hop becasue that other hip hop is solely meant to do one thing: Sell Records. ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2010 10:14 AM
Just so I understand, you offer these three videos in refutation of what exactly? My statement that rap/hip-hop culture is closely associated with gang/thug culture. Does the existence of these three tracks refute that? If we polled a panel of experts on current popular culture (whoever that might be) would they agree or disagree that IN GENERAL rap/hip-hop culture is closely associated with gang/thug culture? Would they say rap/hip-hop is more associated with gang/thug culture than..say jazz or country? Would they say they were something completely different and entirely unaffiliated?
I listened to the three tracks. I thought the digable planets track started out with a cool bass line, pretty soon the doof-doof took over. As for the lyrics...I haven't a clue what they were rapping about. Could you summarize the socially conscious forward thinking message for me?
As far as the other two tracks went, from what I could understand (which was very little) they were talking about relationships with members of the opposite sex. Which is neither here nor there, except I don't understand how the lyrics on either of these two tracks support or refute the statement of mine that you quoted.
On the mucicality of the three tracks in general, I felt/heard elements of it but the dominant theme to my ears was the doof-doof and the spoken word.
EDIT: My mistake FOUR videos. I listened to the first three. Unless there was something earth shattering in number four, I'll leave my remarks as is.
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2010 10:48 AM
There is far more to hiphop then the gangsta rap you see on MTV. Isaac just posted examples of artists who do not glorify guns and money.
I could make a blanket statement that all country music was racist, gun toting, redneck bigotry because I'd heard some tracks by Johnny Rebel and David Allen Coe. That would be wrong.
I could dismiss all blues music as being one man and a bottleneck guitar, but that would be equally as uninformed.
Clearly the musicical form is a barrier.Maybe you don't hear the messages in the lyrics because you don't like the backing track, or aren't used to hearing hiphop parlance. So instead of videos here are some lyrics...
Here KRS-1 deals with so much in just a few lines; rap not being treated as music, how the industry encourages the gangsta image, negative racial sterotypes and race politics...
"Let me see let me see How should I start If I say stop the violence I won't chart Maybe I should write some songs like Mozart 'Cause many people don't believe rap is an art Wake up shake up hypocrite look alive Blastmaster KRS One will revive Four or five million still deprived When out to survive wake up and realize Some people say I am a rap missionary Some people say I am a walking dictionary Some people say I am truly legendary But what I am is simply a black revolutionary I write rhymes on plain stationary Mary, Mary, quite contrary Doesn't make sense in my vocabulary Uncle Tom house niggaz, too scary So they can't be around, I don't do this For every Jesus, there must be a Judas It's the concept of the house nigga, field nigga The house nigga will sell you up the river So to massa, he'll look bigger"
now that to me is socially conscious. How about this? KRS-1 again...
"I'll get a pen, a pencil, a marker mainly what I write is for the average New Yorker some mc's be talkin' and talkin' tryin' to show how black people are walkin but I don't walk this way to portray or reinforce stereotypes of today like all my brothas eatin' chicken and watermelon talk broken english and drug sellin' see I'm tellin' and teaching real facts"
This, from Black Eyed Peas was a chart hit, thankfully showing that positive messages in hiphop can be successful..
"I feel the weight of the world on my shoulder As I'm gettin' older, y'all, people gets colder Most of us only care about money makin' Selfishness got us followin' our wrong direction Wrong information always shown by the media Negative images is the main criteria Infecting the young minds faster than bacteria Kids wanna act like what they see in the cinema Yo', whatever happened to the values of humanity Whatever happened to the fairness in equality Instead of spreading love we're spreading animosity Lack of understanding, leading lives away from unity That's the reason why sometimes I'm feelin' under That's the reason why sometimes I'm feelin' down There's no wonder why sometimes I'm feelin' under Gotta keep my faith alive till love is found Now ask yourself Where is the love?"
Blaming hiphop for gun crime is like blaming Ford for drunk drivers. The violence in some hiphop is a product of urban deprivation and the failure of the education system to engage whole communites of young, black men. It is art reflecting the artists immediate surroundings. hiphop fans are just as likely to be white, middle class, suburban teens as they are ghetto hardened black youths.
nah... c'mon, you said you'd keep it civil! No need for sarcasm. I completely understand it's a matter of taste and you'll never be a fan. I apologise if you read any animosity in my last post. If you sensed a 'tone' believe me it was not intended. You asked for socially conscious messages, so I offered you some and I could tell you didn't like having to listen to the tracks.
Hiphop is an easy target because so many people, particularly the older generation, don't get it. It's not blameless, just that there is equal or greater blame elsewhere. Just like goth and emo music it's the reactionary media's convenient scapegoat to avoid addressing deeper rooted, unpleasant social issues.
Sure anyone who pulls a trigger is responsible for their own actions. Interestingly though the number one reason kids give for having guns and knives is protection, because the 'bad' guys have them too, not because Ice Cube has one.
If you want the last word. you are very welcome, but frankly I'm done with this aspect of the discussion and if the thread continues I'd rather it followed the course I intended in my original post; the parallels between blues and hiphop. They are there whether you like the music or not.
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2010 2:41 PM
Never said all hip-hop was this or that. Went out of my way to point out there are always exceptions to generalizations. Never BLAMED hiphop for gun crimes, just pointed out that in MOST hip-hop/rap it is glorified.
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2010 2:58 PM
Ahaha! Alright so now i'm responding to a post which in itself was a response to a post dripping with sarcasm that I deleted.
Mr. Verylong. My apologies. I'll concede all the points in your last post including that I just don't get it (no sarcasm intended). I admit it. I don't. Yeah, i'm old. I admit that too. Seriously, no sarcasm here. And my apologies for the remarks deleted. I've always enjoyed your (and issacullahs) commentary.
I think in the future i'll stay away from this type of thread. I knew better, but i just couldn't help myself. Live and learn.
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2010 3:00 PM
"Hiphop is an easy target because so many people, particularly the older generation, don't get it. It's not blameless, just that there is equal or greater blame elsewhere. Just like goth and emo music it's the reactionary media's convenient scapegoat to avoid addressing deeper rooted, unpleasant social issues."
This is EXACTLY the point of this thread, and frankly forums like this. Can't this be said of ALL types of music. Punk, Rock, Blues, etc. were ALL hated by older generations, and embraced by the young. To one extent or another, all such music gets exploited by those seeking to profiteer from it, but that does not negate those artists who are using it as art. It's all art, and as with all art, you don't have to like it or even approve of it. But that doesn't make it non-artistic.
Edit: I choose to ignore the post immediately preceding mine as I feel it violates the creed that is written in bold at the top of the forum home page. I sincerely hope that it's author chooses to delete it. ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2010 4:17 PM
isaac. no hurt intended as my spray was not meant to be personal. Music & art is a very personal thing. I agree that older generations (me) are last to embrace new trends in music.
But what very little I have heard in rap and the few lyrics I have read I find them to be inflammatory and of negative benefit to society. I have heard enough to know that IMHO it's tasteless muck.
My very first exposure was hearing rap on my 14yo grandaughters computer by someone she said was called m&m. To my ears it was simply a violation of all that is good. This m&m along with the industry who are profiting from such vile garbage directed at children are to my mind in exactly the same category as child molesters and should be incarcerated.
I understand your equating it with art. But being art does not make it any the less offensive.
