What am I doing wrong?! I can bend the 9 and 10 overblows at will, but I can't get that 6 Hole to budge. It's driving me crazy not to be able to get that Minor Third in the upper octave. I would greatly appreciate any advice anybody can offer. PLEASE!
That's because you're not overblowing to get the bends on 9 and 10. If you are bending those note you are doing blow bends. NOT the same technique as an overblow.
Bb said it best. Those are blow-bends. Overblowing is a different poochie, and one I'm still wrestlng with. The only advice I can offer as an advanced intermediate player is "just keep doing weird sh!t with your mouth until you get it." That's the only way I figured out how to approximate the sound, and I'm still working on getting it right.
Check out Chris (Buddha's) video on 12th position. He describes his drinking straw technique for learning OBs - he describes the method from about 5'40" onwards. Seems to work for lots of people.
As mentioned before, ob is another technique than blow bending the upper holes. However, the tongue position is quite similar, maybe you'll need a little more air pressure for the ob.
In case you didn't know, the thing that happens when you overblow, is that you silence the blow reed and get the draw reed to vibrate. So it's actually a two step technique. The way I learned it. I took the coverplates off the harp. Closed the blow slot with my finger and got the draw reed to sound while blowing (to get the note, that I'm looking for, in my head). Then you only need to get the blow reed to silence.
It might seem confusing, that you have to do two things at the same time, however it is just one movement (tongue position wise)...
What happened with me, is that first the blow and the draw reed sounded at the same time which gives you a god awful sound... but finally I got it. Then I needed some time to get a clean transition and now it simply 'pops' in.
I think there are a couple of ob threads in the forum archive. That might help.
Btw. welcome to the fourm... :) And don't forget to have a look at the forum how-to (on the forum page) if you didn't already. Cheers, GH.
---------- germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2010 4:01 AM
Aside from echoing the above, I'll paste this from Mike Quill's priceless little gem, which you can find a link to in the FAQs page; it got me on the right track very quickly:
Overblows A so-called overblow is a type of blow bend on holes 1-6 where the pitch of the bend is higher than the natural blow note in the hole. This is because the overblow technique actually causes the blow reed to choke so it doesn't sound, and causes the draw reed to sound as an opening reed (that is, the reed is pushed open before it vibrates back through its slot). Overdraws are the same sort of thing only for draw bends on holes 7-10. During a normal draw bend, the draw reed sounds as a closing reed and the blow reed sounds as an opening reed, and actually dominates the sound. Overblows aren't any more stressful on the reed than normal draw bends, if they are played properly.
How do you play an overblow or overdraw (sometimes lumped together and called an overbend)? Good question. Hard answer.
First, you have to have your reed gaps set close to the reed plates. It also helps to have harps with good compression, that is good "air tightness". If your harp is set up improperly, you simply won't be able to get an overbend, and if its not set up just right it will be much more difficult to get the overbend.
Overbends are advanced techniques that require a lot of control of your mouth, throat, and tongue, as well as your playing pressure. An overblow is NOT a result of extra hard blowing or anything of the sort. It is a technique of finesse, where your tongue and throat have to be set in exactly the right position and your activation pressure has to be just right. Don't even think about trying for overblows unless you can easily do and control all the normal draw and blow bends.
In an overblow, your tongue is set in essentially the same position as for a blow bend on hole 9. The tongue and the throat constrict at the place where you make the hard "K" sound. The air pressure comes from deep within, from your diaphragm. Very tight control over the airstream and embouchure is required to start an overblow and to keep the overblow sounding after you get it. A slight waver in your control and the overblow will be lost. You can't really sneak up on an overblow--you've got to snap it into place right from the beginning. Try imitating the sound of a jet engine. Form an O shape with your mouth and hump your tongue up at the back to constrict the back of the mouth at the soft pallette, and push the air through the constriction with your diaphragm. Don't blow too hard! It's not necessary to force it. You have to finesse it. Try doing a draw bend in the hole first, then go right to the overblow. You don't have to change your mouth position much from the draw bend to the overblow.
Once you get an overblow, practice holding it as long as possible. Relax everything you can without losing the overblow note. You'll find that you can get an overblow with much less effort than you think if you have your tongue and mouth in exactly the right position and shape.
Despite the tight tolerances required to get overblows, with enough practice you can actually bend the pitch of an overbend, and use vibrato on overbends. This requires a very well set up harmonica, and very good control that only comes from a lot of practice.
An overdraw feels like a strong draw bend with the jaw not dropped and the tongue set more in a blow bend position. Here again, the pressure used to get and sustain an overdraw is very critical with very little variation tolerated. Start it with a well articulated attack with the tongue, as if making a T sound, and play with a tight pull draw bend. Experiment with different pressures, because you have to get it just right to pop the overdraw note out there. Remember, you're pulling the note up in pitch, not down. You need to adjust your resonance to match the higher note.
Still having problems? Not surprising. It is helpful to get the sound in your ear, and get the feel of what hitting an overbend is like. One way to do that is to remove the covers and practice overblows while blocking the corresponding blow reed. (Remember, it's the draw reed that sounds during an overblow, as an opening bend.) You can use a finger to block the reed, or you can even use a bit of tape to do the job. It is much easier to get an overblow with the blow reed blocked, and you can practice this way to learn the sound you're going for. It's easier to get the note when you know what it is supposed to sound like--probably due to a subconscious tuning of the vocal tract to the resonant frequency of the note. It's kind of like whistling--you automatically make the adjustments in your mouth to get the note you're hearing in your mind's ear. Once you are used to getting overblows with the blow reed blocked you can transfer the feel of the technique and the sound of the note to normal play--with the covers on!
Another way to go is to practice on a Discrete Comb, which isolates the draw reed in its own chamber and accomplishes the same thing as blocking the blow reed with your finger or some tape, making overblows much easier to get. Even if you don't use the Discrete Comb as your standard instrument, it is quite useful as a practice device.
Overbends take a lot of practice.. probably more than almost any other diatonic playing technique. Then, once you can do the overbends it takes a lot more practice to use these extra notes to play the diatonic harp chromatically. Overbends open up all the positions to all modes of play, and bring jazz to the domain of the short harp.
The holes in which overbends add new notes not available through normal play or normal bends are:
* overblows on holes 1, 4, 5, and 6, and * overdraws on holes 7, 9, and 10.
Overblow technique varies considerably between holes 1 and 6, as do overdraw techniques between 7 and 10, so you pretty much need to work on each one separately. Most people find that the overblow on hole 6 is the easiest one to get first.
Again, make sure you adjust your reed gaps as close to the reed plate as you can get them without causing the reed to choke. Adjust the gaps close for both reeds in the hole. In other words, to set hole 6 for overblows, gap both the draw reed and the blow reed close to their reed plate. An improperly gapped harp is extremely difficult if not impossible to overbend.
I haven't just re-read it, but I'm pretty sure he stresses the importance of staying relaxed. That 'It's driving me crazy' will be your biggest enemy. ---------- YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
Yeah. Also, learning it on a standard (low) G would be extremely tricky. Probably best to start on a Bb or C. ---------- YouTube SlimHarpMick a.k.a. HarmonicaMick
I wrote this a long time ago. I know it's been helpful to 100s of people around the world due to the feedback I've received through the years. I heard it's been translated into 7 or different languages.
@Grubby, If you read Chris's write-up on this, he says it's a finesse thing. And I agree. I'm an intermediate player now and am only just toying with OBs. After almost three years of working seriously at harp, I'm finding that I'm just now developing the breath control to successfully OB. Others here have managed to get them sooner though, so everyone's different. My thought is that there is a lot to learn and master with this instrument. Take your time with it, and good luck.
