tookatooka
976 posts
Jan 09, 2010
12:56 PM
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Not so long ago, there was a lot of hoohaa about the release of the Hohner XB40. The talk going around was that it was going to change the face of harp playing forever and everyone would be doing overblows, underblows, sideblows and double shifted tongue slapped shimmies with a forward roll and double summersault jacknife dive with a twist.
What happened? I've only seen a couple being used on YouTube and that was really only from a novelty perspective. I wonder if Hohner wish they had read the market better before bringing that monster onto the market?
I think it was the size that killed that one.
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ricanefan
45 posts
Jan 09, 2010
1:13 PM
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Priced for an advanced player, designed for the intermediate. If they could sell it for $45 or lower, I'd bet they'd move...
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Hobostubs Ashlock
281 posts
Jan 09, 2010
1:21 PM
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call me crazy but i think why?If you cant play a regular med quality harp whether learning or advance,then why even try it takes away from what the instrument is and morps it into what it should not be just my opion only talking about these weird harps not talking about customs
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2010 1:23 PM
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LittleJoeSamson
190 posts
Jan 09, 2010
1:25 PM
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I have three. Hardest thing for me was to adjust my embouchure. They have kind of a built in raspiness that makes distortion touchy some times.
Here's the real drawback: due to the size, it's VERY difficult if not impossible to form a decent cup.
They should make a simpler 6-hole version, IMO.
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saregapadanisa
46 posts
Jan 09, 2010
1:25 PM
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Same happened with Suzuki Overdrive.
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tookatooka
977 posts
Jan 09, 2010
1:33 PM
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Ah! Yes, I forgot the Suzuki Overdrive. You need to be a bit of a piccolo player to use that one. What were they thinking?
A six hole XB40 like the Seydel Big 6 sounds interesting. Then again don't hear much of the Seydel Big 6 either.
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Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2010 1:36 PM
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nacoran
755 posts
Jan 09, 2010
1:50 PM
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Suzuki Overdrive
Hohner XB-40
Bahnson Harp
Discrete Comb
I think, even if you come up with a good product, and even if you can make it cost effectively, you've got a lot of market inertia to overcome. There is something called a Janko Piano that was supposed to revolutionize piano playing 100 years ago. It was way easier to play, let you effortlessly do runs that gave even the best pianists troubles, let you sidestep memorizing all those pesky keys. Piano instructors wouldn't teach it or promote it.
Actually, I have a couple ideas for harp inventions, I just don't have the skills to build a prototype! Maybe that would make an interesting thread- what's your best/craziest idea for a harmonica improvement, or at least the one that you are willing to share.
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tookatooka
978 posts
Jan 09, 2010
2:06 PM
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@nacoran@ Having been down the Patent Application route a number of times I can tell you it's hell! Apart from the mountain of form filling, worldwide protection is prohibitively expensive (£100,000 and more for even a very simple thing). It still doesn't prevent a little workshop deep in the middle of China from ripping your idea off. Only the largest corporations can afford to have attorneys scouring the world for breeches of Patent and that costs considerably.
However my idea is that with batteries, electronic devices and LED's being so small now it would be feasible to mount some nice ultrabrite blue LED's inside the coverplates of a harp so that you could give a flash of blue light to the audience as you did your hand wahs.
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Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2010 2:07 PM
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belfast_harper
92 posts
Jan 09, 2010
3:05 PM
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There is a bahnson harp on ebay at the moment, it will be interesting to see how much it sells for.
http://instruments.shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_npmv=3&_trksid=p3910.m38.l1313&_nkw=bahnson+overblow+harmonica&_sacat=619
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rbeetsme
112 posts
Jan 09, 2010
3:37 PM
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The XB40 is really a different animal. Some think it is too easy to bend, too hard to keep it from bending. Size feels odd to the diatonic player. I have a friend who plays a lot of bluegrass and gospel. He is also an accomplished flautist. Terrific player. He has a full set, really likes them.
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nacoran
758 posts
Jan 09, 2010
6:03 PM
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Tooka- I have a few ideas. One isn't really a harmonica, but a harmonica holder. It would fit on your hand like one of those little joy buzzers. You'd hook it on the harp and it would let you spin the harmonica, like those guitar spinners. I also thought LED's would be cool, except I was thinking ones that lit up based on a tuner that would change colors with the notes!
The only thing I'm actively trying to figure out is an easy way to make custom covers so I can make harps that look like candy bars or cell phones or other rectangular objects. The problem is it's got to be non-toxic. I thought about using real candy bar rappers to decoupage them, then sealing them up with something, but I'm still stuck and getting a good material for the covers.
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barbequebob
314 posts
Jan 10, 2010
7:28 AM
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Those harps are very clearly NOT for a beginner and right off the bat, breath control is something absolutely NECESSARY, but unfortunately the vast majority of the average players don`t have any at all, and in addition, the accuracy of the articulation and articulation of their bends and OB`s/OD`s are also not that great, and that is VITALLY important to get the most out of them and they require more intensive woodshedding to get all of this together. Many players think mistakenly off the bat that they`re gonna be able to do everything like their standard diatonic with the same sound of their regular diatonics. Each of these harps were designed as acoustic instruments more than anything else. The average player has a tough enough time with the standard tunings as they`re presently constituted and these harps require a much more highly refined skill set.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Elwood
292 posts
Jan 10, 2010
8:35 AM
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LittleJoeSampson's comment about the size of the harp and difficulty in forming a proper seal... that's basically my experience of every single regular-sized harmonica i ever played. I have the hands of a florist.
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Randy G. Blues
124 posts
Jan 10, 2010
10:17 AM
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It's funny haw we all have preferences when it comes to harps. I have been playing 1847 Classics for some time now. Yesterday we dropped into a shop that had a bunch of used (mostly) harps for sale- a lead I picked up from another musician.
Well.. The box had about 50-60 harps in it, all still in original boxes. Some chromatics, and mostly Hohners, three Echos, and I forget what else. The prices were all about half retail with the Marine bands marked $15.00 iirc, and the double-sided echoes at around $50 for the used two and $60 for the one that appeared to be new.
I brought some alcohol hand sanitizer with me and cleaned and played a few. Not one played anywhere near as good as my 1847s do out of the box. There were mostly Marine Bands (nothing really old- no mouse ears nor 6-pointed stars), and a few appeared new in the box.
The one Marine Band I played appeared new; it was clean and still had the oil-paper parchment wrapped around it in its original Hohner box. Small holes, it felt very narrow in my mouth, and it played like trying to inflate a paper bag. The tone was thin and for any given amount of air it had little volume compared to the 1847. I pulled out the Seydel 1847 I always carry with me and it made the Marine Band sound like a toy. I can see why there is so much talk of customizing and gapping MBs- if that one was any indication, they need it.
And it wasn't just me- the fellow working there was a guitar player, and he noticed the difference, and really liked the sound of the Seydel as well. I did like the sound of the Echo, but for my style it was a novelty instrument, and even so, would have needed a lot of work to play properly- even the new one.
So there you go- much like underwear, to each his own. I am still awaiting consumer reports on the B-Radical which should start shipping any year now... ;-)
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harpletunnel
5 posts
Jan 10, 2010
11:20 AM
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Hi Randy G. Blues, I met you at the Beemer Bash. I personally don't see myself even trying the new B radical as I have settled in with the Seydel 1847 classics. They are so much better than the other harps I think I'll just stay there for now. I have about 25 of them now and have been trying to break them for around 3 years and they stay in tune, feel good, (not like a toy) and just won't die. Oh yah, they are so loud that if the band is low I don't even have to be amped (I can't even believe I said that).
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Randy G. Blues
125 posts
Jan 10, 2010
1:30 PM
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harpletunnel,
I enjoyed meeting you and your wife last year... Looking forward to this year's rally already- with TWO German Shepherds along with us this time. Hope you can drop by with your harps and there will be beer waiting! Might even drag my little Electar amp along.
Now that I have your attention. I await reports on the B-Radical, but I really do love the Seydels, and dealing with Rupert (the US Seydel rep) is a pleasure. The B-rad will have to be quite amazing to get me to switch (particularly at 2x the cost). The rich tone of the 1847s will be hard to beat.
The only reason that I played the MB at the shop was just to see what they were about. I didn't even like the way they felt in my hand, let alone my mouth.
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GermanHarpist
924 posts
Jan 10, 2010
4:01 PM
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I just checked the Banson Harp on ebay... It's a pretty neat design. However there's a little problem if I'm not mistaken. Wouldn't the read break if it is vibrating while the leaver is pushed?
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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nacoran
768 posts
Jan 10, 2010
10:32 PM
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GH- I read somewhere that the Banson harp could snag.
I have a kind of clunky idea for a harp that would use a stacked C/C# like a regular chromatic, but it would use a small cylinder to change the keys instead of a slide. You'd rotate the cylinder to the appropriate key and it would (either working like the cogs on a music box cylinder or working like a valve in a brass instrument). You'd have to know what hole to start on, but as long as you didn't have any accidentals you could play in any key on one harp without having to learn your flats and sharps. I'm not sure if I explained that very well! I've got a couple other ideas that are just as crazy.
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Gwythion
53 posts
Jan 10, 2010
11:41 PM
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Nacoran, is this where you read about the Bahnson?
http://www.patmissin.com/gallery/gallery12.html
Pat Missin is talking about the Music King (A similarly-designed chromatic), but says the Bahnson has the fault German Harpist guessed at.
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harmonicanick
520 posts
Jan 11, 2010
1:13 AM
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I bought an XB40 when they were launched and it is more difficult to play and requires a seperate technique than your 10 hole, partly because of its size.
This is what it says on the box:
The XB40 overcomes the limitations of the standard diatonic by incorporating an additional set of reeds, tuned so that al twenty of the harp's notes can be bent.It has a system of 'patented' valve chambers, the auxiliary reeds come into play only during note bending. The harp is tuned so that every note can be bent a whole tone, with an additional semitone bend on the 3-draw to complete the chromatic scale in the first octave.
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mankycodpiece
89 posts
Jan 11, 2010
3:51 AM
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i haven't played an XB40,but as a chrom player,i can tell you from my experience,the ebouchure is different for me.
i had no end of trouble getting all the bends until i adjusted my emboucher.after which,no problems,other than,i do have to keep an eye on it,as i still tend to revert to my chrom embouchure.
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saregapadanisa
51 posts
Jan 11, 2010
5:07 AM
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I never tried the XB40 (at 110$, I'll pass), but I have a Suzuki Overdrive. It now sells at less than 40$, about half of the price tag when it was first thrown in the market. That says a lot.
Phogi summed it all in 3 points about these harp. Concerning the Overdrive, it works. You actually can play your overblows perfectly. Problem is music is not only a matter of playing notes, it's a matter of tone and phrasing. And, due to its awkward technical requisite, that's hardly done on the Overdrive.
But these harps tell a lot about the current state of harmonica playing. Seems that anybody who is somebody is running after the holy grail : playing chromatic with the expressiveness of the diatonic.
The shortcomings of XB40, Overdrive and the like are also the shortcomings of many overblow "specialist" players : they can play the notes fast, but more than often, I'm appalled by their phrasing, I just wish they could add some musical quality to their technical ability. There is definitely a line beetween technicians playing notes and musicians playing with technique like, say, Jason or Adam.
That's what these harps are all about.
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mankycodpiece
90 posts
Jan 11, 2010
6:24 AM
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what a great post from saregapadisa.
if it doesn't say it all,it says most of it,for me.
i've watched jason's videos',and we can all see the information is there,if thats what you want.
but phrasing and interpretation is far more important to me than technical expertise.
if you can do both,well,thats great.but if it's down to choice,as it is for me at the moment.i'll take phrasing etc.
i enjoy what i do just doodling(i think you call it noodling)than siting there,knee deep in my failures,for an hour or so.
and the strange thing is,loads of little bits and pieces just pop right out.
i can't overblow yet.i haven't tried,but when i do know how its done,i wont sit there trying to make it happen for hours.it will come along in its own time.
i like what i do with just bending,and if i may say so,sound pretty decent too.most of all,i enjoy it.
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nacoran
772 posts
Jan 11, 2010
11:55 AM
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Gwythion- It could have been Pat's site. I've read a lot of his stuff, or it could have been somewhere where he was quoted. I actually think I've heard it more than once. I think that link looks familiar, but I think I remember reading a Bahnson review somewhere else.
My crazy idea would actually let you select each key before you started playing. None of the ideas I've come up with would let you switch on the fly. They were just focused on reducing the number of harps you had to carry. Actually, one solution I thought of would be to take a chromatic with individual reed chambers to let it bend easier, but then replace the slide with a different plate for whichever key you were playing in. You'd lose the ability to use the slide while you played, but the simple plate would have holes punched out for the holes in the key of the plate, so it would be like playing a solo tuned diatonic, except you'd have to start playing different holes for the start of each scale.
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Buzadero
255 posts
Jan 11, 2010
12:00 PM
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OK. Hang on one send here. RandyG & HarpleT, can you enlighten me on this "Beemerbash" of which you speak?
Yes, this is threadjacking. I am now a Moderator, to quote the philosopher Eric Cartman, "I do what I want".
Beemerbash?
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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nacoran
777 posts
Jan 11, 2010
1:25 PM
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Buzadero- I know who shot the sheriff, and we have a suspect in the shooting of the deputy. You just moved to the top of the list for who killed Kenny.
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Randy G. Blues
129 posts
Jan 11, 2010
1:34 PM
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The Beemerbash is a BMW motorcycle rally at the Plumas County Fairgrounds in Quincy, held annually by the Nor Cal BMW Motorcycle Owners club. Google fr this year's date. I met harpletunnel there last year. We we were walking our dag around the grounds I heard harp playing. I stopped by and we had a great talk, and even jammed a bit together. AND.. as it turns out, we both attended Dave Barrett's 2008 harmonica masterclass!
At the 2009 rally I invited him to stop by my RV (and yes, I admit, I wanted to pick his brain on a few subjects). This year I have tempted him with BEER! And the good stuff as well!
Why the RV at a motorcycle rally? We have a dog that is epileptic and just cannot saddle anyone with caring for him while we are gone that long. Usually he is OK, but if you have never seen a dog in seizures or know what to do, it can be quite frightening.
We have been through so many of his seizures, now we just look at each other, "You gonna get the medicine this time... OK, I'll go get a towel." Fortunately, he's down to about 1 or 2 seizures in a day, every four to six weeks or so, but his pattern is that he has no pattern.
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