XHarp
244 posts
Jan 11, 2010
7:16 AM
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Went to see Miss Angel and the Homewreckers yesterday at the Boathouse in Kitchener. An absolutley fantastic rock solid, well polished band and they are keeping the Mel Brown tradition alive. Great venue too. Miss Angel is a great blues vocalist and a real nice lady.
Lead guitar is Ian Taylor and he was spot on for every tune.
They had a guest Harp player. Overall he was good and for most of the evening he did a good job.
But......
There was a period during the second set where the band was doing some Hendrix and SRV stuff. Now to me, these are guitar tunes. No harp is needed or required for these tunes unless of course you are well seasoned enough that you can keep up to the tune with the appropiate tempo and licks. He could not, but continued on to play right through the tunes and even took leads on these same tunes and when he did the whole tune stalled.
I really believe that the other musicians need to stay in touch with the tune and where their input or instrument is not approproiate, simply do not play. I thought that his interuption, for lack of a better term, was a deterent from these songs.
Despite this small thing, the day was excellent. Good music, good fun, great crowd in a small intimate venue and of course the beer was cold.
Might even make it back there next weekend. Miss Angel won't be there so the vocalist will be a guest. Should be good again.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2010 7:17 AM
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toddlgreene
414 posts
Jan 11, 2010
7:23 AM
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That's when the universal hand signal of cutting one's throat needs to be discreetly shown to the poor guy...As you said, he was a guest, so probably not a lot of stage experience. There's a burden put on the rest of the band when an unknown player comes up on the stage. Kudos to them for giving the guy a shot, though, and to him for having the stones to get up and play-now, to rein him in...
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XHarp
245 posts
Jan 11, 2010
7:30 AM
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Should have clarified, He's a regular Harp Player for another local band. He's not a bad player, has a pretty good command of the instrument, even did a good job in the upper register.
I think he took the invitation to mean that he was to play on every song. I think that's the wrong approach. Its the bands gig, they've asked you to join them to round out the sound and support the gig. That means knowing when not to play as much as when to play.
The other thing that caught me off guard is that he has a habit of playing two harps often, one in first position and one in second position. Kind of strange but hey, we all have our style.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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toddlgreene
415 posts
Jan 11, 2010
7:39 AM
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Yeah, experienced or not, they should have kinda 'hinted' to him to lay low...
1st and 2nd pos. alternately? That's intersting.
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LittleJoeSamson
197 posts
Jan 11, 2010
8:39 AM
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Yeah, you're right, X. There are some songs that just don't work well for harp, and to just stay in the pocket or very short fills.
I would say it's partially the bands fault for choosing those numbers AFTER calling the dude up, or not mentioning to him to maybe sit out on certain songs.
[ Interesting, quite a time back... a very good friend that's a graduate of Berklee asked me to maybe sit out on a song similar to "Thrill is Gone", in Bm. I said I was comfortable playing it, but that I would be tasteful. He gave me a tentative, " Ohhhh-K ".
I laid low the first few verses. When others solo'd, I shut up.
Then, he threw it to me, and I did a drop-dead, melt-the-walls solo.
Later, my friend came up and said, "Joe, I don't know why I said that...you're a professional. "
We both got a good laugh out of it. ]
I'll switch harps in a song at times, going from 2nd to 1st, or 2nd to 3rd and then back; or for some minor keyed songs, 4th and 3rd.
For "So What", I play four different harmonicas: LO Dm MM, LO Am NM played 1st p. (Dm), C chromatic, C XB40.
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Hobostubs Ashlock
295 posts
Jan 11, 2010
8:54 AM
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being a new harp player myself i can understand i started playing with the David Castro band doing 4 hour gigs with 2 months playing of the harp exsperience and only i solid band practice a week they would do songs i hadnt even practiced with them before,I tried to play every song i look back now and think hey i should of sat more of them out,that and find the best places to start and more importantly stop playing for the songs is still really hard for me,being mainly right now a improv player i thought i find what works for this song ive heard it before but never played it lol,They gave me credit for stuggling though the long sets with them but eventually laid me off,Which has given me the chance to do what i needed to be doing all along woodshed a lot more.The more i learn the less i know seems like with this small thing they call a harp
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2010 9:04 AM
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jawbone
213 posts
Jan 11, 2010
9:06 AM
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I bet that was a good show, X, Miss Angel has a fabulous voice. I know what you mean, some songs just don't work for harp, my theory is "If it isn't adding to the musicality leave it alone" I live in dread of getting called up to play and it ends up being one of "those songs". I suppose if I had 50 years of experience and 14 music degrees in theory I could figure something out but if the song is fine on it's own, stay outta the way!! Just because I got a harp in my hand doesn't mean I have to play it.
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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walterharp
173 posts
Jan 11, 2010
9:28 AM
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usually in that situation, somebody is calling out solos, so you should just look to that person... and if you don't feel comfortable with a particular song, wave the solo off... just simple band stand etiquette
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lumpy wafflesquirt
144 posts
Jan 11, 2010
9:28 AM
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that hits a lot of chords with me, something I have had problems with in the past and I hope not to repeat if I ever find another band to play with.
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scrybe314
42 posts
Jan 11, 2010
9:40 AM
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One of the earliest lessons I picked up from working with a band was when to lay low, back down, or just shut up. Realizing real fast that there are just some songs that harp doesn't work with is a sharp but necessary lesson for most of us perishing neophytes, methinks.
As for switching positions, I am intrigued. I'ma have to play around with that some and see what happens...
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eharp
420 posts
Jan 11, 2010
9:41 AM
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i play with some folks who are quite insistent that i play harp on every song and solo, too. i have repeatedly told them that i dont think all songs need harp.
to me, it makes the songs with harp and my solos more special than my not-very-stellar abilities really are.
one example is keb mo's "am i wrong". the guitar and bass do just fine without me mucking it up, imo.
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harmonicanick
522 posts
Jan 11, 2010
9:52 AM
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If you are in a band with an arranger/leader who knows what he or she is doing, then the harp player will be part of the evolving sound of that band through rehearsal and on to live gigs.
If the band is a bunch of people who jam or play numbers with no collaboration between the members to achieve a focussed sound then it runs the risk of self-indulgence, a criticism that could be levelled at a lot of 'blues bands'
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mr_so&so
259 posts
Jan 11, 2010
10:39 AM
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Hey Mr. X, the Boathouse is just down the street from me. It's about time we met up, and a brewski at the Boathouse would do nicely sometime. I'm kind of paranoid about broadcasting my info over the web, but perhaps we could figure out a way to contact each other, or arrange a time and place to meet.
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jawbone
214 posts
Jan 11, 2010
12:22 PM
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Hey So & So and Xharp - I'm going to be playing in Kitchener the first week of Feb. for a Birthday Party, drop me a line at jawbonejr (at) hotmail.com - I'll give you the details.
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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congaron
409 posts
Jan 11, 2010
12:29 PM
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I was primarily a percussion player for the past few years, until I got more serious with harmonica. My band is requiring more harp as i grow into the instrument. It is in over 75 % of our music now. We are reaching a point where i will be playing harp and conga or bongo together with a neck rack on some numbers because our our original material calls for harp and hand percussion to maintain our sound. This band has evolved since I joined it. I also play trumpet again from time to time. In the band before this one, I played mandolin (rock style), guitar, percussion and bass on occasion.
I said that to say this:
I agree there are times to sit out. Especially when you are sitting in. I have been fortunate to find bands that use my other instruments when i am not playing harmonica. So far, I generally sit in on more than one thing, and it always seems to involve percussion. That makes sense, since that is what i am known for around here. I am becoming know for harp and always bring them along just in case. That works well.
Yep, sit out when sitting in. It will help you get more invites.
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Hobostubs Ashlock
302 posts
Jan 11, 2010
12:34 PM
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Yep, sit out when sitting in. It will help you get more invites congaron said
lol thats something ill have to remember,i know a few guitar players around my town that would second that 1
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congaron
411 posts
Jan 11, 2010
12:40 PM
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My lead guitar player gets invited in for exactly the same reason..he knows when to sit out when sitting in. I love playing with my band..the whole group is that way.
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XHarp
246 posts
Jan 11, 2010
1:20 PM
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MR S+S, Send jawbone a line and he'll hook us all up with his reply. I just did. Would be good to get together and chew a bit.
I should have mentioned by the way that the Harp player was running a Sonnyjr rig 4x10 and I believe a JT 30. Couldn't see it fully and I simply forgot to ask him.
Sounded really nice. Good lows, crisp highs it was a good tone not over the top but I'd say the tone was in the pocket for the band.
X.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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Shredder
103 posts
Jan 11, 2010
3:17 PM
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I can relate to Eharp. The band I'm in insist I do some thing in every song. The ones we have tried to bring into the set list that aren't harp friendly are dropped. I agree with some of the others and worry about playing to much. Iv'e made mention of it to the band but they said were paying you to play that thing so play it.
I also agree the bands identity has grown around the harp and that's our sound.Billy Gibbons of ZZ top stated one time they have a lead bass and he just does the fills. Our band is sort of like that. The guitarist plays rhythm most of the time and I take the leads and fills but some times I play the rhythm and he takes the lead. Then on occasion we share a lead and play back and forth to each other. I feel Blues Travler has the same style my band has.
In closing I will say we must be doing some thing right because we are getting rebooked in all of the clubs and private parties we have played at.
I still say there are some songs that the harp should stay out of.
Mike
http://www.myspace.com/milestone2thebone
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2010 3:23 PM
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LittleJoeSamson
198 posts
Jan 11, 2010
4:02 PM
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Shredder...@ "I can relate to Eharp. The band I'm in insist I do some thing in every song.... I've made mention of it to the band but they said were paying you to play that thing so play it."
Then those times are when you should play in 1st pos. and like a horn. Quick stabs and end of measure refrains. You're still heard, and filling a part; but you're not overplaying.
Long, organ like sustains with TB'ing work, too.
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eharp
424 posts
Jan 11, 2010
4:27 PM
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samson- that sounds like a solution i could use.
are there any examples on youtube that you know of? (i aint real comfortable playing 1st position except for simple melodies.)
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toddlgreene
427 posts
Jan 11, 2010
4:30 PM
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Lee Oskar did that a lot with WAR;he'd just fall in with the horn section. Alternately, if your octave playing is good, try a Rotovibe, Rotosphere or other leslie emulator(preferably one with a rate pedal), and play organ parts.
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jawbone
217 posts
Jan 11, 2010
4:35 PM
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I try to imitate the horns, in second pos., split octaves, doing simple shots in combinations of 1-4 blow or draw, 3-6 blow, 2-5 blow. Whatever seems to fit the best.
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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Shredder
104 posts
Jan 11, 2010
7:51 PM
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@ LittleJoeSamson,
Yeah I agree and that's what I do. I just try to fill in the gaps, little here little there. Those long drawn out fills really add some thing to the mix. Try recording the same song twice with them and with out.
They really add up. I think what to do and when is a gut feeling and just comes with time.
That's another thing great about harp, you can mingle in and out of the song and it sounds good, the guitars and drums really can't do that.
Mike
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DutchBones
339 posts
Jan 11, 2010
8:11 PM
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David Barrett has a new book out (which I got for my birthday recently)
titled "Blues Harmonica Accompaniment Playing Book/CD"
It sells for $14,99 but it has a much greater value for people who (want to) accompany a band. It discusses and gives samples of all kinds of accompanying , including fills, bass, horn and organ type of playing....
Blues Harmonica Accompaniment Playing Book/CD
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DutchBones Tube
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howling hound
10 posts
Jan 12, 2010
8:35 AM
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Is this Kitchener Ont, is there a blues bar up there. Being from the Sarnia I would love to hit up a good blues bar one night
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barbequebob
321 posts
Jan 12, 2010
9:43 AM
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Damn, the last time I was in Kitchener, Ontario was in 1988 when I was on the road with Luther Guitar Junior Johnson playing at the Hoodoo Lounge.
Anyway, too many players, and I've said this time and time again, tend to do nothing else but listen to only harp players, which is BIG MISTAKE NUMBER ONE!!! The other thing is that they also don't listen CAREFULLY to how other instruments accompany ('comping), and also to make matters worse, the average player tends to listen to solos first and pretty much ignores everything else, and all three of these things are absolute PET PEEVES with me, and when players do that, it's no wonder why people who play other instruments often times hate having a harp player on the bandstand with them and the average player needs to get straightened out on that in a freaking hurry.
There are often times when the best sound the harp can make is exact NO SOUND AT ALL, just shut it up entirely because you may be totally screwing up the mood of the piece or worse, what you're playing clearly doesn't work with the chord changes (this is where learning theory and cutting loose the average player's thing of so called "blissful ignornace" of all that is gonna bite them in the rear end HARD).
Thare are times when a hard bluesy sound is NOT the right thing to play, and also the average player often doens't know dynamics at all.
As a pro harp player, I tend to be harder on other harp players because I see all the stuff they're doing that flat out doesn't fit in an sounds totally unmusical.
On tunes where I'm playing behind in a BB or Albert King type groove, I avoid playing the way 80% of harp players tend to do, which is non stop mindless riffing, and play more along the lines of the horn section, and having worked in a band with two tenor saxes, a baritone sax, and sometimes also a trumpet, I had to learn to play as part of the horn section, including using harmonies as part of the deal.
What does this mean? It's time for the average player to learn something called musical discipline, which unfortunately, at least 65% of the players on the planet often lack BADLY. The "blissful ignorance" method always winds up at some point blowing up in your face when playing with other musicians.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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walterharp
180 posts
Jan 12, 2010
9:46 AM
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I am not really sure you need a leslie pedal to pull of the organ comping.. We were doing a gig in the park and a guy i know who is pretty well versed in music told me while walking up he was wondering who our new organ player was... It was my harmonica with drawn out tongue blocked octaves and a very active diaphram/throat vibrato. Now we have a real one in the band so i gotta lay off of that sound more.
i too am lucky to be playing in a band that is very tolerant of lots of harp (but not tolerant of anybody stepping on leads and vocals)
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XHarp
249 posts
Jan 12, 2010
9:58 AM
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Howling Hound, Kitchener Ontario it is for sure. There are great blues clubs there and one of the best blues festivals every summer.
Mel Brown settled there in the 1989 with Miss Angel and his presence and involvement established a grand following of blues musicians and great venues.
Get out there if you can.
BBQ Bob, you are so right... Sometimes what's not played is best. I'm told that Mel Played the Hoodoo in '88 too. After the Hoodoo is was called The Gator or something like that. Anyhow, Kitchener is a good stop for Blues acts.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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toddlgreene
446 posts
Jan 12, 2010
10:12 AM
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@ walter, I have a strong vibrato, one that I constantly am asked to define at our meetings, but I'm not good at describing...I've been asked if it was a pedal more than once! No, I like to use the Rotovibe sparingly behind the music as rhythm or fills, organ-style-and not as a substitution for vibrato. Infact, I don't use my own vibrato when the pedal is on, because it's horribly redundant. On the rotovibe, you can control the depth of the swells and the and the modulation...it's a fun addition to give more possibilities, and will color your tone enough(not in a negative way)so as to not always sound like an incessant harmonica player. This goes hand in hand with what BBQ says:there should be a limit to just soloing. Playing rhythm parts, occasional horn-type fills or just shutting up occasionally will win a band over a lot quicker than a guy who just jumps onstage and goes apeshit.
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2010 10:23 AM
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howling hound
11 posts
Jan 12, 2010
11:56 AM
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Sounds like I need to make a road trip, Kitchener Ontario not just a place with good beer anymore
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barbequebob
327 posts
Jan 12, 2010
12:11 PM
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When I was with Luther, we had a 3 night engagement there and we stayed in an apartment building that was a 5 minute walk from the Labatt's brewery.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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