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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Quicker than the Circle of Fifths
Quicker than the Circle of Fifths
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nacoran
8595 posts
Jul 24, 2015
3:48 PM
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Here is something for the beginners out there. Personally, I love the circle of fifths because it is involved in a lot of deeper theory, but when someone calls out the key a song is in I know a lot of beginners still don't know off the top of their head what harp to grab to play and cross harp and aren't real comfortable with the circle of fifths, so here is another simple way to figure it out quickly.
Ab A Bb B C Db* D Eb E F F#** G Ab A Bb B C Db* D Eb E F F#** G
*Also called C#
** Also called Gb
Unfortunately, it still requires you to know which letters have flats and sharps, but if you can get that far and someone can tell you what key the song is in you can count it out like this. If someone says the song is in Ab count over 5 spots to Db. Grab the Db harp. Rinse, repeat. That will work for all your major keys. A lot of the time you may be sitting around listening to the radio. Sometimes you'll want to grab a harp even for a song that doesn't have a harmonica part just to play along. You can google what key the song is in, and do the above. Sometimes it won't be available. If it has guitar in it though, someone has probably put guitar tab up. It doesn't always work, but if you look at guitar tab most songs start on the I chord. What that means in music theory terms is that if the song is in C it will start on the CEG chord. Guitar players like easy cheats as much as we do. Look at what they list as the first chord. It doesn't always work, but usually, the first letter of the first chord is the key. Then just count 5 spaces over on your little alphabet above, grab the harp and start playing. There is a real simple way to remember which letters have sharps or flats, but I'll save that for another post.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Nate
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timeistight
1827 posts
Jul 24, 2015
5:18 PM
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The chromatic scale can be visualized as a circle, too. Turns out to be a lot like the circle of fifths:
Last Edited by timeistight on Jul 24, 2015 5:20 PM
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nacoran
8596 posts
Jul 24, 2015
5:41 PM
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And then you don't have to write it out twice like I did! Even better.
:)
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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STME58
1387 posts
Jul 24, 2015
7:25 PM
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Circle of Fifths
Last Edited by STME58 on Jul 24, 2015 7:26 PM
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Harp Study
115 posts
Jul 24, 2015
7:37 PM
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STME58: Now that is a circle of fifths I could get some use out of!! Actually I find the theory circle of fifths to be super useful, but no way it is as much fun as that thing would be.
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clyde
432 posts
Jul 25, 2015
6:26 AM
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Quicker than the circle of fifths?
NO!
How can anything be simpler than to count 12345 to the right. Or one to the left.
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STME58
1388 posts
Jul 25, 2015
11:52 AM
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I have memorized what I call a skip step alphabet, repeated below 3 times;
ACEGBDFacegbdfACEGBDFA
It is related to the triads ACE, CEG, EGB, GBD, BDF, DFA, and FAC. This does not keep track of sharps and flats, but just knowing these patterns, and they are just patterns that you could see without knowing a thing about music, helps pick the correct harp for a key. If the song is in D and I want to play in second position, GBD comes to mind and I grab a G harp. It works very well on the commonly used key F through E but get a bit more complex on the flat keys.
Now that I write it out is looks more complex than it seems when I use it. I guess everyone needs to get this into their head in a way that works for them.
Last Edited by STME58 on Jul 25, 2015 12:49 PM
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shadoe42
325 posts
Jul 25, 2015
12:57 PM
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Nacoran... you realize you have essentially just written the Circle of 5ths backwards right? :)
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Dr. Rev. Mr. Cheeks Miller
My Electronic Music World
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nacoran
8597 posts
Jul 25, 2015
2:09 PM
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Clyde, I agree if you have the circle of fifths in front of you, or if you've got it down so you can write it out. That's how I do it in my head, but a lot of new players come to playing the harp without knowing anything about the circle, but they've had years of practice with the alphabet. The circle of fifths is also more useful for counting the other positions out, but I know some new players have complained about it being a bit intimidating to start with.
Shadoe42, only if you mean after accounting for counting by 5, the circle has skips in it (either direction). This is alphabetical so most of us will have it memorized by default before we even pick up our first harp. It's not perfect, because you still have to know Gb/F# are the same note, and C#/Db are the same note so you don't get 12 notes not 14, but that's easier than memorizing the circle, I think.
Stm58, basically that's what actually got me thinking about it. There are lots of ways to look at it since mathematical relationships can be written in so many ways. I always visualize chords on the piano. Even if I don't remember which flats/sharps are in a chord I can work it out on a keyboard in my head on the fly by counting steps 4/3 for a major, 3/4 for minor, 3/3 diminished, 4/4 for augmented. Of course, that gets confusing when you try to think of it on the harmonica because we skip so many notes.
I still think the circle is the gold standard because it's so useful down the line, but I'm always trying to think of easier ways to convey the knowledge.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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clyde
433 posts
Jul 25, 2015
7:23 PM
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Nacoran
You know that went right over my head....of coarse you are right.
I still keep the circle in my kit...sometimes it beats thinking!
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STME58
1390 posts
Jul 25, 2015
9:42 PM
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Here is how I learned the circle. I don't necessarily recommend this but there might be some insights here for those of you learning it.
I started playing trombone in 4th grade. I played everything in Bb irrespective of key signature. Around the 6th grade another trombonist pointed out to me the little b's in the key signature and how they work. They go on in order according to the word BEAD. The first flat is Bb the second Eb and so on. If you have more than 4 flats the next two are Gb the Cb, they just are. To know what major key you are in look at the next to the last flat. If you see three flats they are BEA and you are in the key of Eb. If you see 6 flats (God help you!) they are BEADGC and you are in the key of Gb, and so on. One flat, Bb, is the key of F, it just is. This was enough to get through high school as a trombonist and at that point I did not even know what a circle of fifths was. Trombonists in marching bands and wind ensembles hardly ever see sharps in the key signatures.
When I took theory in college I learned that the sharps are added in the order of Fat, Cats, Go, Down, An, Elevator, Backwards. The next sharp is F, it just is. To find out what major key the signature represents, look at the last sharp and go up one letter. If you have two sharps, F and C, you are in the key of D. If you have 4 sharps F,C,G, and D, you are in the key of E and so on. No sharps or flats is C, it just is.
Now with this set of convoluted rules that is reminiscent of English grammar, I was introduced to the circle of fifths, and lo and behold, starting at B and going counter clockwise I see BEAD GC, the very order the flats are added. Then I note that starting at F and going clockwise are my overweight backwards cats in the elevator. Go clockwise one step and you add a sharp or take away a flat, go counterclockwise and you add a flat or take away a sharp. Wow, I never knew I went up a fifth by adding a sharp. Going the other way you go down a 4th by adding a flat. Take the same sequence of letters as you have around the circle and shift them so the A lines up with the C on the original and you have all of the relative minor keys for each key signature.
I hope someone finds this more useful/entertaining than boring. Again, I am not recommending this path, just describing it.
Last Edited by STME58 on Jul 25, 2015 9:46 PM
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nacoran
8598 posts
Jul 25, 2015
11:24 PM
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The mnemonic I learned for the order of sharps was:
Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle
For flats it was the reverse.
Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles Father
The C/A trick was in my bag too. I knew they were relative since they are both all white keys on the piano.
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Nate
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