One of these has come up for sale in my local area, asking $1200 AUD, that's about $950 USD at 79 cents which was the rate last time I looked.
I'm going to inspect it tomorrow.
I don't have much by way of preconceptions. I've read everything I can find on a web search, nothing very recent about them, I understand it's been quite a while now since they were last made, and maybe there are simply better options?
I'd have to sell something, my Silverface Princeton Reverb would cover it, my Hot Rod Deville probably not really. i might get $750 for that. HRD has been my solution for around 5 years and no problems with it at all, it's probably a bit large for my current gig, or maybe more accurately it's a bit more than I need. I understand a sj2 is a powerful amp too, and just as heavy, but I thought perhaps more versatile. Maybe I could sell 2 amps.
One if not the most versatile harp amps ever made. I own the first one ever made-you can cut the power to run only three speakers for smaller venues. The tonal possibilities are endless.
To get top projection out of it ,stand it up on its side.
The build quality is top notch-just doesn't get any better.
1:Circuits were designed for great tone and volume without feedback. 2:Point to point wiring by one master technician. 3:Exclusive Pyle 8” speakers with large magnets for more overall range and projection, keeping the crunch and bottom of the 8” sound. 4:Specially designed exclusive transformers for increased bottom end. 5:Exclusive six by 8” speaker design with two output transformers-each, increasing overall volume and tone. 6:Multiple options-amp can be run with just one transformer for smaller gigs, or two extension cabs could be added with your choice of speakers to fill up any venue. 7:Interchangeable preamp design, allowing you to dial in any microphone or get any tone desired. 8:Specially designed tone circuit-treble, middle and bass are more user friendly, allowing you to push higher frequencies for better projection without loosing the bottom end. 9:Line out feature designed to keep fat tone even when lining out straight into the P.A.. 10:Perfectly seamed tweed covering for added years of protection and durability
Sonny Jr. is now unleashing the Sonny Jr. #2! Over the past two years we have tried to increase power without sacrificing tone and we always came back to the same conclusion. What we have in the Sonny Jr with 25 useable class A watts is the perfect combination for harp. Larger ouputs and more single wattage is not the answer as you cannot use 50 or 100 watts with a microphone in your hands. So we developed the Sonny Jr. 2 - two Sonny Jr.'s together in one amp. We built two 25 watt class A output transformers in one amp with six of our exclusive 8 inch speakers. The versatility is the key. Not only do you have a powerful tone monster with up to 40 useable, yes useable class A watts - but you can vary your speaker setup any way you want. It will come stock with three 8 inch speakers run to each output transformer. The unique design of these speakers will make them sound as tough as 10 inch P10Q's. Or, you can run all six to one output and use the other output for any speaker configuration you want as there will be a 2,4,and 8 ohm tap for each. Not to mention our transformers are still custom built exclusively for us to push more bottom end. Or, you can run it as a single output without doing any harm to the amp. The Sonny Jr. 2 will have volume, treble, middle, and bass controls and as usual we will use only the highest quality pots. Amp size will be 22'' high x 28" wide x 10" deep and will weigh about the same as your Bassman or Super, 55 lbs. Over 80 harp players all over the world who have our Sonny Jr #1 have thanked me for doing it right, finally with the harp player in mind, not how much profit can we make off harp players. I have been playing over 25 years and am committed to producing the finest quality harp rig on the planet. Only one man builds the amp - Tom Stankiewizc of Cotton Amps in Tolland,Ct. He is also a NASA engineer who designs spacesuits - he cannot afford to do shabby work. His attention to detail is mind boggling and I personally blow through every amp before it leaves. I even pack them and ship them myself because these are my babies and I want them to get to you unscathed. Our cabinets will be tweed covered and will be finger jointed for stability. Line out will be included as usual along with our standard preamp friendly design - you can change preamp tubes to acquire any sound and tone you want. We also will continue to make the amp self biasing so that when you change power tubes you do not have to bring it in for service. If you were going to spend 5 years creating the ultimate harp amp, what more could you ask for? Tone with Power - watch out guitar players - it's our turn."
Well, let me be the devil's advocate. I've played through a Sonny Jr. ( don't remember which model, but it had 4 10s and strong power) at jams maybe a dozen times. How good it sounds is very dependent on tube configuration. The harp player who owned it really didn't know what he was doing, but he eventually found a tube configuration that got it sounding much better than when I first played through it.
With my 545 Ultimate I could never get a tone out of it that I liked. It always seemed a little muddy and tonal response wasn't "even"-- by that I mean some frequencies jumped out louder than others, no matter what I did with the tone controls. It did, however, sound much better with bullet mics when other players used it.
I don't know what TMF means by versatile. He knows a lot about this type of amp, and my experience with one is very limited. But to my ear it has a definite Bassman type sound. I can get a MUCH more diverse range of tones out of my Fender Super Reverb (4x10) and my Peavey Delta Blues(1x15).
To be fair, this type of amp is not what I usually gravitate towards, and I don't use a bullet mic. But, having heard so much about SJs, I thought I would be more favorably impressed. I wasn't. FWIW.
Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 21, 2017 7:16 AM
Here is a original ad from a long time ago: Fellow Harp Players:
My Name is Sonny Jr., former aid, driver, and duet harmonica partner of Sonny Terry from 1976 - 1978. I've been playing professsionally over 25 years and have gone through a countless number of amps (including original Bassmans) trying to get that "Little Walter Tone". I have finally developed an amp in conjunction with Cotton Amps in Tolland, Ct. who have redesigned one of the amp circuits Little Walter actually used to bring you The Ultimate Harmonica Amp, the SONNY JR. Every minute detail has been designed into this amp from a harp player's perspective. Tom Ellis of Tom's Mic's in Dallas Texas (214-328-3225) owns a Sonny Jr. amp and brought it to a Kim Wilson's gig in Fort Worth Texas for him to use. Kim was very impressed and is having one built for him to tour with.
An A Harp, Green Bullet AMP set on 4 for volume & 2 for tone. An F Harp, Shure 707A (Crystal) AMP set on 4 for volume & 3 for tone. An C Harp, Astatic (Ceramic) AMP set on 6 for volume & 2 for tone
I will leave you with one more quote from Brad "Harptone" Emmons in California. "Well I have been working out with Sonny Jr. #001 and I got to say it's a killer harp amp. Great tone all through the register, excellent bass rsponse, strong mids and decent highs. Amp breaks up in the right places. Rips when you want it to rip, clean when yu want it clean. Nothing made in the last 30 years sounds as good as this amp does for harp, thanks to Sonny Jr. and Cotton Amps.
Sonny is deeply grateful to Sam Hutton, whose help and guidance were instrumental in getting our project off the ground. Sam (the orignial tweed master) was always there when you needed him and did all he could to help the little guys compete. You will be missed.
Sonny Jr. and The Harmonica Masterclass Unite
Sonny Jr. and David Barrett of the world famous Harmonica Masterclass have joined forces, with David being the sole distributor of the Sonny Jr. #2 amplifier. The amp is regarded as the finest piece of harmonica amplification ever built, judging by the amout of great reviews from its owners and people who have done AB tests against other amps. Sonny Jr. is still the driving force behind his products, and tests and ships every amp made. He is also still there for technical support of all existing Sonny Jr. owners, both #1 and #2 models. Sonny is now advancing his own harp career, and will be one of the Masterclass clinicians in the year 2000, along with teaching two seminars on tube substitution and sound amplification. Sonny would like to personally thank all those existing owners in 13 countries for their support in his venture. So many people have also thanked him for his never ending probing for the absolute best sound that an amplified harmonica can produce. To view the new site, go to www.harmonicamasterclass.com To contact Sonny Jr. call 203-230-8839 Sonny is asking that ALL existing owners contact him either by phone or E-mail (Sonnytone@aol.com) for verification of their addresses and phone numbers.2nmy4
I've played through several Sonny Jr amps. Here are my thoughts on the entire product line.
Sonny Junior 1: I have never played through one of these. I know a few people that i trust who owned these in the past. They said the amp sounded a lot like a Masco PA, with the same drawbacks as a Masco PA. That means they weren't loud enough. They are also roughly the size of a Bassman.
Sonny Junior 2: I have played through one of these a few times. The tone was very nice. It was not extremely loud. It was not as loud as a Bassman.
The Sonny Junior 1 and 2 do not sound like any of the other amps that came afterward. It is my understanding that the amps below are all based on the 5F6 tweed Bassman circuit with some minor changes being speakers, back panels, output transformers and a few circuit changes.
Sonny Junior 4x10: Sounds very much like an old tweed Bassman. Very loud. Very toneful. I have played through several of these. They are very good sounding amps.
Sonny Junior Super Sonny: A modified 4x10. A different speaker config than the 4x10, a solid back panel and possibly a very small circuit changes. I regularly play through one of these as I own one. I am very happy with it. It sounds good with any mic I have tried with it.
Sonny Junior Cruncher: This amp may have the finest, most vintage sounding tone of any of the Sonny Jr amps. It's not the loudest SJ amp, but it might be the best from a tone perspective. I have played through a few of these. They sound really great. I had no problem getting huge tone out of it.
Sonny Junior Super Cruncher: This amp takes the Cruncher and makes it much more useful. This one is louder than the regular Cruncher. I have played through one of these. They sound really great. I had no problem getting huge tone out of it.
Sonny Junior Avenger: Same physical size as the 4x10. It is very toneful and louder than any other amp he has produced. I have played through a few of these. The tone is great and it is very loud.
Sonny Junior makes a high quality amp that will last for years. I wouldn't hesitate buying any of them.
I've played a Sonny Jr 1, a 410, and owned a Cruncher. The Jr was okay, the 410? , and after hearing Gary Smith playing the Cruncher bought one only to find out mine was underpowered (transformer) and Gary (besides having the ultimate brown tone playing anything) had modded his. I quickly got rid of mine and am generally not a fan due to the variances in product quality and unstable market value of Sonny Jr products. I think there are many better choices varied based on what you want to achieve.
My ultimate choices have been a 59 Bassman RI if I need "big", a Silvertone 1300 if I want "small", and a Masco A17 if I want my favorite tone and will be micing the amp. Besides good quality each maintains its value when you want to sell it.
I still contend that the player brings 80-85% of the tone and the amp & mic the balance so the equipment matters but isn't primary. Sonny Jr amps always "seemed cool" (and marketing blurbs and endorser statements were well written) but, for design and financial reasons, would not be high on my list. There are many boutique amps. I would recommend that you keep looking and maybe check out some of the YouTube "Harp Amp" videos put up by "Harpsucker" before you lay out $1,000+. ---------- BnT
Last Edited by BnT on Aug 21, 2017 2:13 PM
Thanks all. I haven't seen a Bassman RI here for under $1500 in about 6 years. I turned my nose up at one asking $1300 as 'too expensive' and that was the last one I saw. They go for $2400 new, 'on sale' (they're always on sale but fender use an inflated RRP to make the normal selling price look less unreasonable). Correction: they are $2800+ new. Current RRP is $3300. $1200 is not peanuts by any means. But this market is much different to USA. Only 1/10th the population and freight is expensive, 240 volt mains, nowhere near the range of speaker options, quality transformers all need to be imported. Not many mid-large range amps available under $1000. The fender Hot Rod deluxe and Deville models do sell secondhand under $1g but that's about it.
Anyway, thanks especially Tmf714 for understanding it's an SJ2 I'm particularly interested in, and Joe_L for the comparisons and making the point the amp in question is rather different to all the subsequent Bassman-styled amps.
I'm particularly interested in the question of versatility and loudness.
Tom has told me it's very versatile but Joe has told me it's not especially loud. That's helpful. Thanks.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Aug 21, 2017 5:35 PM
I think "loud" and "tone at big volume" are markedly different-there is no question many things factor in here. I use a Kinder AFB+ with my Sonny 2-and I use a 5AR4 Rectifier-the stock is a 5U4. 12AX preamp and a hot CM JT-30. Standing the amp on its end improves projection. At 50 watts it can hold its own against most Bassman type amps.
The one I just played through is plenty loud. It's s/n 080 Impressive unit. Sounded great when the owner played through it and maybe even not too bad when I played it. Tried it with a 57 and a variety of crystal and vintage dynamic mics. I'm thinking about it.
How many opportunities will you have to own one of those? If you've got the cash, buy it. Play the shit out of it and sell it down the line for what you paid for it.
That is exactly what I've been thinking Joe. I really don't see what's to lose. The owner has given me the inside running and I know people are lining up to get it, so I'll be able to sell it on if I want. Its now mine
Last Edited by SuperBee on Aug 22, 2017 7:20 PM
I have a Sonny Jr. #1 amp and I love it. It's the simplest thing imaginable... just volume and tone, with only one input. And it sounds great right away, without me having to mess around with a bunch of knobs. If that SJr 2 is basically two of mine put together, there's no way you won't like it. Mine is instant vintage Chicago blues harp tone, so double that seems like a pretty safe bet.
Thanks 6sn7. The deal seems good to me. My good fortune to be in the right place as vendor really preferred the simplicity of a local sale. Hi Cliffy, tone stack is 3 band, but still pretty simple from that end. I'll be very interested to see the circuit. Sounds like the preamp driving 2 power amps, which are each 2 parallel single ended 6L6. And thanks Sydeman for that info on the DB connection. I didn't know that.
SuperBee - Joe_L has some great insights and advice on Sonny Jr products. Of course, Joe can play through any amp and it sounds like the Southside of Chicago in the 1950's. My views are coloured by personal experiences and the lack of customer service for used Sonny Jr products.
I didn't realize how pricey amps were in your part of the globe (Here I can find a decent used 59 Bassman RI on Craigslist for $800 and end up buying it for $600-$650) so that Sonny Jr amp may be a great deal. Good luck with it! ---------- BnT
Hi Martin, yes I've seen that clip. I do have a harp attack pedal but yet to try it. Oddly enough, I bought it second hand from a fellow who plays guitar in one of Ian Collard's bands. BnT, yeah, it's apparently interesting to a few people. I don't think it will be hard to sell. I will be 3rd owner (at least) of this amp. The vendor also expressed that while he loved the amp he found his attempts to communicate with Gary were frustrating. But others, all original purchasers I think, have reported good experiences. I am not too worried about that aspect. I'm happy to take responsibility for service. I don't know if there was originally any documentation came with these amps but if so it's a shame it hasn't been passed on when it was sold. I'll have to make a bunch of measurements to establish the current state of the circuit. Tmf714, do you have a schematic or any info on configuration?
It could have some tweaks and updates for it. I'm the 2nd owner of an SJ1 and the original owner included the updates that Gary had provided for the amp. Mine is built like a tank. Very high quality construction.
Tuckster, yes it could although by unit 80 i'd expect the design fairly well settled. i know the vendor has not changed anything in the time he's owned it, but i know nothing of its history prior to his ownership
@superbee- There upgrades to almost every Sonny Jr amp made. Some were tubes or speaker swaps, a back panel added (Super 4x10) or in the case of the Super Cruncher, a bigger power transformer. Gary is always tinkering with design. I saw a trio of Super Cruncher with 3x10 speakers he was selling years back. Lots of bells and whistles in the Sonny jr 2, the manual will be helpful.
I do think it's kinda weird to make an amp in the 21st century which doesn't have a grounded power lead. When I measure the speakers with an ohmmeter I get a reading just under 4 ohms for each set of three. The outputs were set to 2 ohms on each side (as mentioned, this amp has 2 output transformers, each powered by 2 6L6 tubes) I expect it doesn't matter too much, but they probably "should" be set to 4 ohms. I guess if I ran all 6 speakers from one output is when I'd use the 2 ohm tap, but I'll need to look at how the jacks are wired. Would be handy to have this info, to save me having to peer into the innards and trace the circuit every time I want to try something. Also, I believe they shipped with a 12AT7 in the Preamp; this one has a 12AX7 Dave Barrett told me he'd experimented but decided it sounded best as it came. I guess I'll experiment too; maybe after I fit a grounded mains lead. I still haven't plugged it in since I brought it home but I'll take it to the studio on Wednesday.
Yeah, 2-4-8 ohms, each side. Currently set to 2, with speakers plugged in to 'top' and 'bottom'. Vendor had no idea if that was 'right'. Asked me 'is that right' as if I'd know. Manual will be cool Tom. I like understanding things by working them out, but it's always quicker if someone has already cut a track.
SuperBee - I realize you have the Sonny amp but I wanted to pass this along for future reference.
I have a friend who often plays harp through a Sonola accordian amp. Since the manufacture of this (Italian) amp was licensed to/done by an Australian company (late 60's-early 70's) I though you might be able to inexpesively acquire one. This will provide some info http://jedistar.com/sonola/ ---------- BnT
Cheers BnT; Sonola is not one that i've encountered much. i seriously considered an accordion amp last year, a Magnatone by another name iirc, went for $1G, from Adelaide coincidentally (the Sonola amps were built in Adelaide), maybe accordions are popular there (there is a sizable part of the South Australian population with ethnic German background).
i see quite a few smaller old Australian amps for sale, mainly Mascots, Rexs, Moodys, Fi-Sonics and the occasional Goldentone. I get confused about names, not sure now whether a Mascot is actually a Rex or i might be thinking of something else. Prices are not too unreasonable compared to say Fenders of similar vintage. The larger amps are harder to come by, Sonola is not one which came readily to mind so its good to know of something suitable for use as a harp amp. Just as in the states, the 60s stuff is probably more likely to be suitable than a lot of the later stuff, especially in the more powerful amps. The Goldentone Bass Master is the amp i always think of when considering large Australian valve amps. I did play one at one time, and i expect its still where i left it. about 40 watts, in a cab with detachable TV legs, built around 65 i think. a lot of the australian stuff used tubes which may be hard to get now although there are often common substitutions for much of it.
I used the Sonny 2 for the first time on a gig last night. I did stand it on end, mainly because it's fairly wide and fitted the space better thatvway, but also raised a couple of the speakers a little. Amp was very good. After I set it up I didn't think about it. It was doing just what I wanted and I wasn't distracted by feeling I needed to adjust it. If I'd needed more stage volume I believe there was more available. I was miked to PA so trusted FoH was ok. I've been very happy with it at rehearsals. It's just a big lump of a thing to carry up and down the stairs. But so is my 410, similar weight although the SJ2 is a bigger cab. I found that 2 prong lead was actually just a 2 prong adapter. It has a US 3 prong plug and previous owner was using an adapter. Amp is in great shape, like new. Has had very little use for at least the last 7 years. Last night was not the loudest stage I've been on but the indications are good. I might try some different preamp and PI tubes, currently a 12ax7 in pre and au in PI
