Butterfield fan
21 posts
Apr 24, 2019
2:42 AM
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I am using a harp shield and I notice that plugged in it drops the volume slightly when playing and the character of the amp - anyone else noticed this dulling of sound rather than it just stopping feedback?
If so anything I can do about it? I am using a bullet mic so no convertor required here
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SuperBee
5904 posts
Apr 24, 2019
6:18 AM
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I bought one when they first came out.
Did not notice the effect you mentioned.
Most reports I’ve seen mention as a positive that the pedal has no effect on tone.
Unfortunately I found that in my situation it also had no effect on feedback so I moved it along quite quickly. The new owner spoke very positively about it.
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tomaxe
155 posts
Apr 24, 2019
8:50 AM
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As I understand it, this device serves more like a noise gate. So...if you are someone who experiences feedback while just holding your mic & harp away from your mouth while not playing, it works great. But it's not an EQ device, so it should not effect your tone.
Check your cables, battery, DC adapter, try a different mic?
I have a Lone Wolf Harp Delay and it's a really good delay, works great.
It does eat batteries though, so make sure you are using the DC adapter.
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snowman
441 posts
Apr 24, 2019
9:21 AM
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talk to lone wolf about "the Terminator" and or read up on it may help
randy@lonewolfblues.com
have to give u the seach page ---sight was down
https://www.google.com/search?q=lone+wolf+pedals&oq=lone+wolf&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0j35i39l2j0l2.6158j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
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Butterfield fan
22 posts
Apr 25, 2019
5:38 AM
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Thanks All. Snowman if I am running the harp shield and the boogieman would I need 2 of the terminators?
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snowman
442 posts
Apr 25, 2019
7:51 AM
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i use one at beginning of chain
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Steve Harvell
241 posts
Apr 25, 2019
12:41 PM
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I see that so many players are going through a lot of time and money buying pedals to make their sound, if that is what it takes cool! But I feel that you can sound great just having a good mic and pugging into an amp but I understand that I am old school and what ever it takes is ok too :)
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The Iceman
3831 posts
Apr 25, 2019
1:43 PM
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My student showed up with a Fender '57 Champ 5W amp and one of the custom mics to learn electric harmonica technique...that's all that was needed to get a great sound! No need for any pedals at all....
Everyone has a different idea of how to create "the sound", but I'm a fan of simplicity first and see what happens.
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The Iceman
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Lou
60 posts
Apr 25, 2019
9:20 PM
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To Steve & Iceman, I thought the Harp shield did nothing to the sound it's only designed to help with feedback according to Lone Wolf. It's great a guy can sound fantastic with a 5 watt amp but try that on stage with 2 guitar players, keyboards, loud drummer & a bass player. Without micing you amp. I'm playing through a 40 watt tube amp voiced for harp and still will get feedback depending on how were set up and how loud were playing.
I would love to find out how to prevent feedback if you have any tips I would greatly appreciate hearing them. I use no pedals a Bulletini mic with VC & a JT 30 with CM element with a VC. I'm about to order a Harp Shield
Thanks
Lou
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SuperBee
5908 posts
Apr 25, 2019
11:35 PM
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Exactly so, Lou, the topic of pedals per se is a tangent.
Tomaxe summed up the Harp Shield about as succinctly as I’ve seen.
My problem with feedback was never about getting feedback when just holding the harp and mic. I don’t ever have trouble with feedback these days, and that is entirely because my amp is loud enough to be heard and my band are disciplined about volume. We’ve played a few venues where volume needs to be controlled and we know how to do it.
Not everyone is so fortunate.
The harp shield will prevent accidental feedback. It will allow you to approach your amp with mic in hand, so you can adjust settings for instance.
If you don’t have a switch or a volume control on the mic, the harp shield is very handy. It’s basically a sound-activated switch.
When I had one though, the band was so loud that they would trigger the gate, so it was not effective unless I adjusted the sensitivity to require higher sound pressure to activate it. That made it really annoying to play, I’d have to play loud all the time and my attack and decay was always missing.
It didn’t help that I was in the backline next to drums and bass amp. It really was deafening on that stage.
The lone wolf harp octave pedal was much more effective at helping me get more volume without feedback.
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Butterfield fan
23 posts
Apr 26, 2019
2:33 AM
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Lou - I am in the same position as you, I can't just use an amp and hear myself over guitars bass and drums and just use an amp and hear myself. The problem here is the drums set the volume level really, the guitar and bass need to be heard over the drums and at that level an Amp cannot compete on it's own unless you have a harpking I suspect - that's my experience anyway - unless you are in a band that plays very clean blues - try anything by led zeppelin and you will struggle
I have a bulletini with volume control and a harp shield running through a boogieman and using the XLR to Pa so I can use the monitor to hear myself and the line out to a fender bassman.
I use the volume control and harp shield to control feedback.
I may move to using the XLR to a small 5 amp as a monitor to hear myself in future The other solution is a Amp with a line out so you can run through the PA.
This forum is great for help...
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tomaxe
156 posts
Apr 26, 2019
11:07 AM
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I understand the issues of playing in loud bands with harp amps as I have been there myself...stage volume is always a struggle for some bands, but it's usually a question of other members of the band hearing each other over the din of their own instruments. I'm confused as how a small monitor would help make you hear yourself more than a 4x10 Bassman right behind you? Unless you are hearing impaired? Then you likely need ear monitors.
I have seen bands with a harmonica player that have mic'd up a SMALL amp to the PA, and the harpist has the Basmman as a stage sound and monitor for himself. So he can hear himself on stage but what goes to the front of the house is his/her tone through a lil' 5W amp.
I never understood why one playing through a huge amp would need a monitor for his/her instrument, unless you are standing so far away from the amp that it's getting lost on stage. Then the issue is more than likely that the band is really (really!) way too loud...
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The Iceman
3833 posts
Apr 26, 2019
11:19 AM
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Biggest problem is too loud band playing.
Butterfield Fan is correct in stating that the drummer usually sets the stage volume. Lighter sticks or brushes works wonders at this point.
However, guitarists are also guilty of pushing the volume louder than need be as many insist that they must play at that certain volume to get "their sound".
It's a sad state of affairs and personally, I just won't play with a too loud band. Trying to compete at that volume level is usually a losing proposition for all except the Harp King owners.
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The Iceman
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tomaxe
158 posts
Apr 26, 2019
11:52 AM
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The usual wise words from Iceman, but I think a challenge many folks have is that they may be starting out playing harp and have little choice—this ungodly loud group of Weekend Warriors are all that is available to them in terms of playing actual gigs—they are their friends, the only guys who let them join up in a band, the only game in a small town, etc, etc.
I started out in a very loud, chaotic band and although I could always hear myself in front of my amp, I struggled with getting the other band members to hear me and to get my sound out in front of the stage. They liked what I ws doing in lower volume practice sessions, but at gigs the volume and chaos just went through the roof. I hung on and struggled for a couple of years...then, I met some cats who played in a whisper quiet blues/country/Americana thing...I jammed a lot with them, and on some songs where I played amplified harp through a tiny amp I was now the loudest member...I learned to practice much more subtle techniques and dynamics that were completely lost to me playing in the loud band where I was just blowing as hard as I could to be heard. My playing improved dramatically, quickly, I think, and I left that chaotic group behind.
These days, I play in a band that's reasonable but can get loud on occasion...but my playing is so much better today that I can cut through the volume with basically the same equipment I had back at the beginning, as I learned with those quiet guys how to really play with a band, with proper technique (always learning!) and dynamics.
I hope Butterfield Fan finds his way, everyone's journey is different.
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Butterfield fan
24 posts
Apr 26, 2019
9:25 PM
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tomaxe - it is more of a case of me using the fender bassman in the backline and a small 5 w amp at the front like a monitor so i can hear myself.
It's a tough one this as the other week when we were playing a L shaped room people at the bar were complaining they couldn't hear us - so of course the bass and guitar turned up - which they can do as they have far more headroom than me. Holding a hot mic means i can only turn up so far without feedback.
to me the 2 things i have learnt from this forum and the great advice here is
1) create your only personal sound and be able to create it anywhere you play. Don't take for granted if it sounds good in your practice room that it will sound good at a gig, it will sound different in every room set-up
2) be prepared with a alternative set-up. If i have an amp i always bring a solution that will allow me to go through the PA and i always have an ability to control my volume through mic or a pedal at the front of the stage.
I can't say i get it right all the time and there is still loads for me to learn
This great hobby of ours can be frustrating but man it's addictive!. For those gigs where it works it's a total joy. Where i am from no one plays harp in bands and no matter how good the guitarist is the all speak about the harp playing!!
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Lou
62 posts
Apr 27, 2019
7:52 AM
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Superbee, Tomaxe good advice.
One thing for sure I've got a lot to learn. Interesting on the Hap Octave maybe I'll try that as I never have a problem with feedback when not playing. I also read a Jason Ricci article on feedback recommending completely turning the bass off I always have bass up treble & mid down I'm going to try that next time out.
I'm no pro just a hobby player been with same band for about 30 years playing guitar, sax & mandolin & now days we only gig about 4-6 times a year. I just started playing harp about 2 years ago. Were only doing 4 or 5 tunes I play harp on, last year I sat in with 2 different bands but it was only for short set playing through a PA, got a day job blah,blah,blah so actual amount of time I get to spend playing amplified ain't much but it's fun as hell & my mandolin chops have suffered from my slow learning curve on the harp !
Lou
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snowman
443 posts
Apr 27, 2019
10:38 AM
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tone and feedback are topics that come up all the time and they should- feedback is annoying Tone is what u like
this is from my feedback folder on my computer
take what u want throw the rest away---I've learned a ton from all of u--this is stuff Ive learned here MBH or online
If u already know this my apologies-
What is freq response---The human ear can hear about 20 – 20,000 hz----
A very low bass sound has 20 waves of sound a second
A very high {treble sound] 20,000 waves a second
I use to sell stereos I had to learn this crap
Harmonicas range from approx. “low F harp” to “ Hi G” with all the regular A B C D harps etc in between
From a chart I got online;
the lowest note possible on “low F harp” is approx. 174.61 hz [waves in a second]
The highest note possible from” High G harp” is 3135.96 hz
So the freq response of a harmonicas is basically 174 – 3135 hz there are overtones and other stuff I don’t understand that go higher in freq response and r important.
My point is most of the sound is between 200- 5000 hz don’t know about overtones etc
From another chart I got online
Quote;
Fat at 240 -----------Bite at 3-5khz
The only reason this is important, is that if u could magically tell what freq or freq’s are feeding back—u could eq them out OR;
Eliminate some variables
; I think J Ricci might have been talking about bass notes the harmonica cannot produce anyway so eliminate that variable
As well maybe eliminate some high freq we don’t use---narrow it down
Im not gonna debate pedals no pedals---tongue block lip purse etc
The reason I have a pedal board for harmonica is
1] to help contain or stop feedback with knucklehead loud bands or bands in general
2] If for any reason [space on stage] [time for set up] etc
I HAVE TO GO THROUGH PA I want a pedal or pedals
for pre eq and or
Especially give me the Chicago dirt sound option
when using PA
3] I got use to “slap back” thicker sound from lone wolf delay—feel naked without it
Again That’s just me
I have a “Mike Modified “ Boss GE7 EQ pedal to help eliminate variables and accentuate things that work my settings from things I learned on line
100hz: If u r playing live, u can remove some of this because that is bass player territory.
200hz and 400hz:
This is where the low mids of the harp lives.
It dependes on the harp and the amp, but a boost here is usefull
800hz: level it at 0. Meaning leave at neutral---- don’t add or take away
1.6khz:
Where the definition of harp lives.
Boost here to cut the mix better
3.2khz:
remove a few db from here
if your tone knob does not goes this far
6.4khz:
remove 5db to 10db. u dont use this frequencies
but your mic can pick it up really fast (feedback)
I have a folder full of this stuff we all want magic formula for feedback ---the reality is bands get louder as night goes on
---confident mature people realize “wow we r really too loud” no room for finesse and feel lets turn down----
I MAY FIGURE OUT A WAY TO PUT MY FOLDER ,FOLDERS IN DROPBOX SO U CAN SEE WHAT IVE RESEARCHED Most what I put here is from things on line
peace
Last Edited by snowman on Apr 27, 2019 10:40 AM
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The Iceman
3834 posts
Apr 27, 2019
12:59 PM
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They used to make small A/C run 10 band graphic equalizers....one can put one in the pedal chain and then begin to learn approx what frequencies you hear when feedback begins (if you set EQ all to flat line 0 and then, one by one, raise each band until you start to hear feedback, you will eventually get an idea of which frequency is feeding back using your ear)...then, it is merely a matter of lowering that particular band of frequencies that feeds back when you are playing.
Playing with a graphic eq is a great way to start to become aware of how each band "sounds" so you can begin to shape and sculpt your sound....different rooms, different situations will create different feedback, so this knowledge goes a long way in controlling your sonic environment while performing.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Apr 28, 2019 8:23 AM
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Lou
63 posts
May 05, 2019
1:00 PM
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Thanks for that info.Snowman, I have a Boss Eq but not had much success with it I try ur settings. But a bit of good news I bought a Harp Shield (couldn't resist) with LW 60 day return policy can't go wrong. Used it yesterday with good results it was just a practice but same room I've fought feedback in. I used a JT 30 with a CM element and a Bulletini it worked well with both mics. I only used it on about 6 songs but there really isn't much too the pedal just one knob so know learning curve. I was able to play a bit louder & enough to heard by everyone and it came through well on what was recorded (just a Tascam set up middle of the room)the pedal doesn't seem to be a magic bullet but it defiantly helped me play louder not a huge jump but enough to get heard. I didn't notice the pedal being a problem when playing soft probably my soft isn't really that soft. Anyway I think the HS is a good tool to have if your in a loud band.
Lou
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