Martin
1564 posts
May 30, 2019
9:56 AM
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Finding a good sound is one of the most -- if not the most -- critical aspects of harmonica playing. (I´ve had many treads on this troublesome topic.)
The B/S cliché that a good player sounds good whatever he´s playing on is just that, a B/S cliché, and let´s not dwell on that -- but I think it´s interesting to reflect upon players who so to speak can take their preferred sound along, from studio to stage, and I don´t find a whole lot of them I´m sorry to say.
Lee Oskar, is one: he comes pretty close to that clean warm sound he´s got on records when he´s playing live (and does not step on the 436 various effects pedals that he brings along).
He´s not primarily a blues player, I know, and doesn´t go for that heavily distorted, muddy, sound that many players of that ilk prefer, but he´ll pass as an example.
Any other suggestions?
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dougharps
1953 posts
May 30, 2019
10:37 AM
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In my personal experience of live shows and having bought recordings of the same artists, Rod Piazza, Rick Estrin, Kim Wilson, and Jason Ricci each have their live sound at shows sounding very close to their recorded sound.
I think that often smaller amps are used in a studio to recreate the sound of larger amps at live shows, but I cannot specifically apply that to the above artists.
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Doug S.
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LFLISBOA
49 posts
May 30, 2019
10:40 AM
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I'd can remember some: Jason Ricci, Billy Branch, Rod Piazza, Charlie Musselwhite, Carlos Del Junco, Sugar Blue
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dougharps
1954 posts
May 30, 2019
10:47 AM
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Regarding the "cliche", I DO think that really good players learn how to get the best sound possible, closest to their sound, that they can out of any gear.
It doesn't mean that they sound their best through crappy gear, just that they have good tone acoustically plus the ability to optimize their sound through a variety of equipment, even less than ideal equipment.
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Doug S.
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jbone
2932 posts
May 30, 2019
11:43 AM
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One of our by-phrases is, Raw, Real, Right Now. That means what's on our recording is as close to what we do live as possible. A good sound engineer will know and be willing to keep things as straight up and simple in the studio as possible. A light mix and master has worked on our stuff.
Since we don't do big amps and big halls we either record acoustic or with our usual 12 watt amps.
I've never cared for an artist who sounds great live and crappy on record, or vice versa. I never want to BE that either.
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Music and travel destroy prejudice.
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timeistight
2288 posts
May 30, 2019
1:24 PM
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Great players, like those listed above, sound like themselves whether they’re on record, on stage or sitting across a kitchen table from you.
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Joe_L
2875 posts
May 30, 2019
2:02 PM
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The venue and people will make a huge difference in a person's sound.
Studios are very controlled environments that are controlled by people. Studios vary. People controlling the sound vary in their skills. The equipment they use vary.
Studios make some things practical that would be impractical on a tour. Many people record with equipment they might never tour with. Carrying multiple amps on tour would be logistically problematic. During a recording session, a person may use a variety of different equipment. Also, I know a number of people who change equipment and vary their technique on recordings from session to session so their records don't sound alike. That makes recreating the sound from the recordings in public performance challenging at best.
Venues where people perform don't have the same controlled environments like a recording studio. Rooms are shaped differently. All band members are on the same stage. They have different acoustic characteristics. Some venues do not have people managing the sound. Other venues may have people managing the sound with varying levels of skill.
You also have to take into consideration the band used in the recording session. Are they the same cast of characters that a person tours with? Touring is expensive and the money may not be available to bring an entire band. Some band leaders will use local guys who aren't usually the same guys on the recording sessions. Additionally, most blues music is improvisational. A harp player might hear something one of the other band members is playing and alter what they are doing based on what's happening on the bandstand.
At the end of the day, the equipment and/or techniques don't really matter a great deal. What matters is what is creating by all of that stuff. What matters most is the music. Does it reach people and convey the appropriate message?
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Spderyak
275 posts
May 30, 2019
6:21 PM
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I'm thinking the big names could afford any sound equipment that they want to help whatever sound they want
My wife and I have a P/A that weighs 28 lbs, that is the bottom line for us. We don't lose any sleep over it. No roadies, sound checks. Course we try to get our best sound from it
Thought Doc Watson sounded the same though, very much what I thought he would be, but couldn't call him a blues guy. I think a lot of the coffee house folkies acoustic guitar sound stays pretty true...but once you get into heavy big amps ..I'll leave it for others to get their sound however they wish it to be.
..but yeah I'm liking studio time quite a bit.
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snowman
460 posts
May 31, 2019
7:45 AM
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For Recording [when time allows]--I mic a small Epiphone Valve Junior ---8" spkr---for Chicago---Mic distance and angle crucial when micing
Too far, Too airy--Too close Too punchy---u have to play with it
Still use Cm elment and [slap back delay]
I have to agree with "cliche" Playing Boogie beats and back beats with tongue - through a dirty amp with slapback delay sounds thick and full. Playing through Pa same technique sounds clean and "Barry Manilow-ish".
Thats not to say that I shouldn't learn to play well acoustically --but thats a completely different feel and effect.
" Rod Piazza, Rick Estrin, Kim Wilson, and Jason Ricci each have their live sound at shows sounding very close to their recorded sound".
I agree Im a big Rod Piazza Fan
I suspect They mic smaller tube amps in studio---so proportionally sound same as live.
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dougharps
1956 posts
May 31, 2019
7:58 AM
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Just to clarify, playing straight to the PA acoustically through a vocal mic will never sound like a cupped mic through a tube amp.
By "good tone acoustically" I was referring to a full, resonant tone, not intending to imply that playing to a mic to the PA can sound like a cupped mic through a tube amp.
If you don't have full resonant tone, even the best mic/tube amp gear will not make you sound like the players I listed.
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Doug S.
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The Iceman
3867 posts
May 31, 2019
10:17 AM
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IMO, it's the INTENT behind the playing that can be consistent from an inspiring artist, meaning that it doesn't matter if he/she (politically correctspeak) is acoustic or through that bassman amp, the listener is still affected the same by the pure artistry.
The job of the studio engineer is to capture that INTENT as best he can given the environment he has within which to work.
snowman sez "I have to agree with "cliche" Playing Boogie beats and back beats with tongue - through a dirty amp with slapback delay sounds thick and full. Playing through Pa same technique sounds clean and "Barry Manilow-ish"."
I suppose it is all in the mind's ear of the listener, as that artistic intent, to me, transfers that dirty amp technique sound pretty successfully playing directly through the PA and it doesn't sound Barry Manilow-ish....of course, the artist must have a good grasp of the technique and play with "No Doubt" as well.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on May 31, 2019 10:23 AM
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