roadharp
18 posts
Jan 20, 2010
5:37 PM
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ok guys can anybody tell me when playing a 12 bar 1 4 5 progression if u want to play an arpeggio over a cord does it have to start or finish on a root note example 2 draw for the 1 4 blow for the 4 and 4 draw for the five.can i play for the 1 the first three notes of the blues scale witch is 2d 3d half step.4 blow then can i play for the 4cord 4b 5b 6b then for the 5 cord play 4d 5d 6d .ok i am still playing root notes any help will be appreciated. thanks sin road harp.
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jawbone
225 posts
Jan 20, 2010
9:57 PM
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Hey Road, I'm embarrassed to say, I'm not sure on this. It sounds close to what I would try. I'm surprised that we finally get a harp playing question and no one with more theory has chimed in. This is more of a bump than an answer.
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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Buddha
1277 posts
Jan 20, 2010
10:09 PM
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for a melody player, you should try to never play the root. Playing root notes is for the bass player.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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GermanHarpist
1011 posts
Jan 21, 2010
1:30 AM
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Well you don't have to start finish on a root note, but well, the blues is very much based on the root notes following the progression always works. Your tabs seem to be ok. However of course you can also riff without the root.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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GamblersHand
130 posts
Jan 21, 2010
3:02 AM
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@Roadharp
Something along the lines of what you describe is often used for rhumba-styled blues
I'd use the 1b 2b 2d for the IV chord. As you'd tend to play a blue third (3 draw bend) on the I chord then playing the 2 blow major third on the IV chord will clash less (or at least will not sound as unbluesy) than the 5 blow
Also, the V chord you describe is actually the minor, with the fully flat-3rd 5 draw. Often a harp song with an arpeggio in the head riff may deviate from that pattern here.
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walterharp
193 posts
Jan 21, 2010
6:11 AM
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if the chords you are playing arpeggio are the correct chord at the correct time, then it does not matter which of the notes you are playing right before the chord changes, other than some might make smoother or more musical transition to the next chord than others, but none should sound really wrong
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XHarp
251 posts
Jan 21, 2010
7:57 AM
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Hey Buddha, A good bass player should play more then root notes. Primarily yes. That they keep time with the kick drum is more important. Making use of the flat 3rd over a minor chord is way cool for a bass player to do and they should be the groove but also they have to fill out the rythym section.
As for starting and stoping on the root? Does it fit the tune or not. That's where your ears come in. Listen to how the tune is working and its OK to let others come around to the root while you play off the blue 3rd or the 5th.
There's lots of options, that's what makes it cool.
No rules there. Just whatever fits.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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Buddha
1279 posts
Jan 21, 2010
8:10 AM
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Xharp, I can play bass. I have also played with some of the very best bassists on the planet.
I wasn't speaking specifically about what a bass player should play or actually plays but it's absolutely the bassist's job to keep the floor. I was speaking more of the role the bass players keeps with the band.
If you have bass player who can't make an audience bob their head or tap their foot then you don't really havea bass player and it's probably because he's playing a bunch of notes other than the Root and 7th.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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XHarp
252 posts
Jan 21, 2010
8:50 AM
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Buddha, Your experience and history provides you with an informed view for sure and I agree that, as part of the rythym section, the bass player has to keep the groove and should be able to keep the 'foot tapping' going strong, but they can and imho should have a broader role in the band then that.
A good or excellent bass player can expand the band's repertoir and provide excellent input even solo's as long as the drummer and other rythym instruments are equally strong to keep the groove going.
To assume that the bass player is at their is best at keeping the root and 7th alive is restricting an excellent instrument its true opportunity.
Wooten, Chambers, Pastorius and Mingus are among the many premier bass players who have proven the potential of the bass as more then root and 7th by recording an expanded bass repertoir.
Most bass players do provide an excellent contribution but playing root, 7th combinations but the opportunites are much broader.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2010 8:53 AM
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congaron
459 posts
Jan 21, 2010
9:19 AM
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It seems to me like you guys are violently in agreement on the multiple roles of the bass, and their importance.
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XHarp
253 posts
Jan 21, 2010
9:29 AM
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no applogies needed. You're opinions are well received and I like a good banter.
No I do not play bass but I have played with a few bass player, seems they are as hard to keep as drummers, none as experienced as those I mentioned mind you.
I will listen to your playing once I'm away from the office. Thanks for the link.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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Buddha
1285 posts
Jan 21, 2010
9:42 AM
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I like to banter too. I don't claim to be a "real" bassist but I did learn bass because my harp playing is based on a bass player's mentality.
I've been around and got lots of tips from some of the best...
Vic Wooten
Stu Hamm
Tony Levin
Anthony Jackson
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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nacoran
845 posts
Jan 21, 2010
10:08 AM
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Playing the root when you are caring the melody will tend make the music sound settled at that moment. Depending on what you are doing that may or may not be what you are looking for.
As to Buddha's point, I think it's perfectly fine for two instruments to play the same note occasionally, although obviously when they are they aren't harmonizing. You'd usually use doubling to bring emphasis to that line the music (line as in bass, tenor, alto, soprano, not as in 'The answer my friend'.) I remember from theory class we usually tried to construct a chord with 4 notes, the three notes in the chord and a doubling of the root. You do have to worry about things like parallel octaves and stuff like that. I wish I could find my theory book.
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XHarp
254 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:08 AM
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Buddha, You definitely can play bass. These clips are much more then root or Root & 7th and that's what I was talking about. Keeping the groove but not restricting the instrument in any way. Letting it come through. Nice !!!!
Most bassplayers will simply play the root on the root and not let the instrument contribute other then to walk up and down through the chord changes. It becomes routine, boring, uninteresting. The bass is so much more colourfull then that. We were likely arguing the same point from a different angle.
I might have my mojo back.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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Buddha
1292 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:37 AM
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ah... but listen. The underlying groove is Root-7th and then I jam over that.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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