GermanHarpist
1014 posts
Jan 21, 2010
2:38 PM
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We all heard about gapping, embossing, arching (i.e. de-arching)... is there anything else?
There is one thing I've heard about a couple of times but didn't find any further information, and that is re-profiling. What's all that about?
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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toddlgreene
546 posts
Jan 21, 2010
2:43 PM
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chamfering.
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Todd L. Greene, V.P.
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GermanHarpist
1015 posts
Jan 21, 2010
2:50 PM
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Todd, no clue about that... a little more than a word would be nice.
However, I'm not talking about some exotic techniques where it is still in discussion if it actually helps more than it hinders... I'm talking about the techniques that people like Buddha, Filisko, Sleigh, etc use... on their high-end harps.
The question should actually be: Is there some secret (magic potion technique like re-profiling) or do they simply do the above mentioned techniques really well/thoroughly?
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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GermanHarpist
1016 posts
Jan 21, 2010
2:53 PM
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I actually have an idea on what re-profiling could be. However, I have no idea how this is supposed to be done. As far as I understand. Creating the profile of the reed is a manufacturing step when the reed is created. I can't imagine how one would change the profile later on... I think I'll do a little vid on the profiling, reedproduction method as I saw it in the seydel factory some time this weekend.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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toddlgreene
547 posts
Jan 21, 2010
2:54 PM
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GH- Sorry to come off as snarky and withholding information...busy at work! This is done on the reed plate at the free end of the reed. Also known as tip scooping. It's not done on any of my harps, but I've seen my friend do it on others. He called it chamfering.
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Todd L. Greene, V.P.
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toddlgreene
548 posts
Jan 21, 2010
2:56 PM
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By profiling, you mean to make the length of the reed concave or convex?
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Todd L. Greene, V.P.
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2010 2:56 PM
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GermanHarpist
1017 posts
Jan 21, 2010
2:58 PM
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No worries... ;)
However, am I correct in assuming that people like Buddha don't actually use that technique?
EDIT: "By profiling, you mean to make the length of the reed concave or convex?" Exactly, however, how would you go about chinging the profile without totally messing up the inner strucure of the metal?
All I could imagine is that you take some kind of scraping tool and pull it along the reed. However, this seem so uncontrolled/randon, compared to how they are profiled in the factory...
Ahh, I'll do the vid right now... it will facilitate the conversation a little... give me 30min.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2010 3:02 PM
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toddlgreene
549 posts
Jan 21, 2010
2:59 PM
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let me summon him. It worked earlier. *rubs bottle* 'Hey Buddha!'
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Todd L. Greene, V.P.
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2010 3:02 PM
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toddlgreene
550 posts
Jan 21, 2010
3:05 PM
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@ GH, by doing that, wouldn't any embossing previously done be moot? When the reed would curl, it would grow further from the sides, obviously. Plus, you'd play hell embossing it afterwards, and your gapping would be all messed up, since the edges would either be higher or lower than the longitudinal centerline of the reed, depending on if it was convex/concave. Wow, that got deep quick.
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Todd L. Greene, V.P.
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Buddha
1287 posts
Jan 21, 2010
3:11 PM
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I no longer give harp building tips because of people like Preston who said he would only build for himself.
There are quite a few people who have studied with me but they paid for the time and effort. What they do with the information is up to them. But I'm no longer giving out harp mod tips.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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toddlgreene
551 posts
Jan 21, 2010
3:13 PM
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Hot damn, it worked;-)
@ Buddha, understood, especially if you make a living from it, but I think it was more of a general question, not how YOU do it specifically, which is understandably proprietary.
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Todd L. Greene, V.P.
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2010 3:15 PM
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MrVerylongusername
846 posts
Jan 21, 2010
3:14 PM
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There was a fair bit of discussion about heat treating reedplates on harp-l a year or so ago. I've never tried it myself, but it was supposed to extend the life of reeds by reducing the development of stress fractures. If I recall it is something that could be done in a regular oven - not full annealing temperatures. I think they were dipped in canola oil first and then cleaned off after the treatment.
As well as the longitudinal reed arc there is also a slight lateral arc on reeds that are stamped out in the factory. Rupert Oysler describes massaging the reed to flatten them laterally. Again I've never bothered.
The ones that make a real night and day difference to me are de-arcing, and gapping. Frankly I'd rather play than tinker and all the crap with nails, screws and combs; that's just about bringing the baseline starting point up to the same level as other harps.
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Buddha
1288 posts
Jan 21, 2010
4:01 PM
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I'll tell you this, the best information is not found in any harmonica forum. There are lots of reeded instruments around the world.
I especially enjoy Persian and Armenian music.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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RyanMortos
569 posts
Jan 21, 2010
4:28 PM
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People with the information from those sources generally aren't able to talk about the information as far as I can tell.
You don't mention tuning though & altering or fixing a tuning on a harmonica is a modification :) .
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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Preston
559 posts
Jan 21, 2010
4:40 PM
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Buddha,
Once again you have taken your own meanings to our conversation, OR, you did not make your intentions clear to me in the beginning.
You see, I did not charge Oda for the harp customization I did. I was curious to see what a fellow harp player would think about the work I had done, but he actually approached me about it without me going out and soliciting. Ask him. I specifically told him I would not charge him as to not cut the throats of professionals like yourself and Spiers.
All of my techniques have at one time or another been discussed on this forumn, by yourself to boot. There are no secrets to my skills, only trial, error, hard work, and a little pride in my work.
I am sorry that you believe you have been wronged, but I'm not sorry I did a basic harp mod for free.
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nacoran
850 posts
Jan 21, 2010
4:46 PM
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I've heard of metals being cold tempered. They slowly lower the temperature and then slowly raise it back up. It has to be done in a very controlled way or it messes it up, but it's supposed to align the molecules better for strength. You could probably do that to a harp.
I think I heard of something called reed channeling, but I have no idea what it is. Kinya Pollard has some great articles, but they are indexed poorly. I think he has a piece on reed profiling too.
It's not a reed change, but Pollard had an article I just read about placing surgical tape over a reed plate and carefully cutting away the bit over the reeds. It's supposed to create a really airtight seal with the cover. I've wondered if there might be something you could do to the cover, maybe putting a little fin on it to line up right over the end of the reed to channel more air, but that's beyond my skills to prototype!
Buddha- That's interesting about other reed instruments. A while back I was wondering about other free reeds like the melodica or accordion.
I'd still like to see what titanium reeds could do. Titanium is one of the best materials in the world at resisting worrying and corrosion. Unfortunately, it's really hard to work with.
For anyone interested, I went through and bookmarked as many of the Pollard articles as I could. Overblow.com also has a lot on customizing.
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/jun06/workbench.html
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/apr04/h-workbench.html
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/dec03/h-workbench.html
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/feb04/h-workbench.html
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/apr07/Pollard.html
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/apr08/Pollard.html
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/jun09/Pollard.html
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/oct04/h-workbench.html
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GermanHarpist
1018 posts
Jan 21, 2010
5:16 PM
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Nacorans links (thanks, mate ;) hyperlinked:
Working on your GM
Gapping
Tuning I
Tuning II
Embossing
Sanding a wood comb flat
Visiting Hohner
Microporing your Harp
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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GermanHarpist
1019 posts
Jan 21, 2010
5:34 PM
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Well I checked out Kinya Pollards articles on profiling. As far as I see it he uses the term 'profiling' instead of 'arching' i.e. 'de-arching'.
You can search his site by entering the following term into google:
"site:http://www.harmonicasessions.com/ profiling"
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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nacoran
853 posts
Jan 21, 2010
7:45 PM
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I suspect that even if the best shared all their secrets they would still be the best. They may raise the level of those around them, but it's probably the level of dedication they bring to mastering it that puts them in their own category, and judging by their backlog it might not hurt to have a couple more top notch customizers out their just to keep up with demand!
I guess it all comes down to the whole open source vs. proprietorial models. I'm a big believer that in the long run you get more innovation with open source, people doing things out of the love of doing it rather than because they have to, but if your relying on your expertise it takes a big leap of faith to risk your livelihood on giving away the store.
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jonsparrow
1828 posts
Jan 21, 2010
7:57 PM
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buddah you do realize now that the harp builders guild is going to come after you now an try an kill you. preston they might even kill you too im not sure. this could be the next de vinchi code movie.
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oda
175 posts
Jan 21, 2010
8:32 PM
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Preston is right. I approached him. He simply sent me the Harmonica (free of charge) in order to see what a fellow harmonica player thought of his customization. He also had thought I received my harp from Buddha by now, so as to see how his skill compared to a pro. From the start, I can probably dig through my messages, he expressed he did not want to charge me anything except for the actual stock harmonica itself, which is reasonable.
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Doggycam
6 posts
Jan 22, 2010
1:29 AM
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When the reed is stamped out, it becomes slightly curved across the width of the reed. Stroking the reed takes this curvature out by flattening the reed, making it last longer.
The slight curvature creates more stress on the reed causing it to fail sooner.
It also slightly widens the reed, making it more airtight in the slot.
It is only done on the thinnest part of the reeds, not on the"thick" parts on the lower note reeds.
Nearly all customising techniques are shown in Rupert Oyslers Harmonica Repair Video/DVD.
Check out a preview on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDDDvzlthNA
I highly recommend it to any budding customisers !
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2010 1:38 AM
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GermanHarpist
1027 posts
Jan 22, 2010
1:33 AM
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How exactly would you go along doing that? What tool do you use?
EDIT: good idea! done.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2010 1:47 AM
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Doggycam
7 posts
Jan 22, 2010
1:44 AM
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"How exactly would you go along doing that? What tool do you use?"
You have all the details on another post that you wrote
ie
1. Being careful not to "bend" the reed, gently slide the .002 feeler gauge between the reed and the reed plate - pushing it back approximately 80% towards the rivet end.
2. Working from the back to the front of the reed, gently stroke the top full length of the reed with the edge of the Brass Flat Strip (.064 x ½" x 6"). This technique is similar to "curling" gift-wrapping ribbon with the edge of a pair of shears.
I used an old reedplate that I cut to approx 10mm or 1/2" wide.
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GermanHarpist
1030 posts
Jan 22, 2010
1:51 AM
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Ah, I understand your other post now... However, Kinya Pollard actually advocated this technique as a way of arching the reed... (if I understand it correctly)
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2010 1:52 AM
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HarpNinja
83 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:47 AM
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Kinya's stuff is excellent. Download all of those and buy Ruper Oysler's DVD...which is FANTASTIC! Covers nearly everything and does it extremely well.
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Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
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Buddha
1293 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:52 AM
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And you wonder why I make fun of you Mike.....stick to handing out those boxes of Lucky Charms.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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HarpNinja
84 posts
Jan 22, 2010
9:05 AM
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You make fun of me because my awesomeness so overshadow's the meager attempts of greatness of your own that I drive you insane and you have to tear me down.
It is ok, I forgive you. You have my compassion. Now finish my harp and send me some tacos with it!
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Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
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Buddha
1294 posts
Jan 22, 2010
9:07 AM
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be careful of what you wish for...we have fish tacos here and you're half way across the country. I'm sure the harp and the taco will be extra ripe for you by then. Then again maybe you like smelly fish tacos.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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HarpNinja
85 posts
Jan 22, 2010
9:13 AM
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You make fun of me because my awesomeness so overshadow's the meager attempts of greatness of your own that I drive you insane and you have to tear me down.
It is ok, I forgive you. You have my compassion. Now finish my harp and send me some tacos with it!
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Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
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Buddha
1295 posts
Jan 22, 2010
9:19 AM
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be careful of what you wish for...we have fish tacos here and you're half way across the country. I'm sure the harp and the taco will be extra ripe for you by then. Then again maybe you like smelly tacos.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2010 9:19 AM
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nacoran
854 posts
Jan 22, 2010
1:49 PM
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It's hard to get fish tacos in the North East. I first had them visiting San Diego. I love fish tacos. The only thing better than fish tacos is the looks on everyones face who are convinced you are talking about something else.
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Buddha
1301 posts
Jan 22, 2010
2:34 PM
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just about every place has them here and surprisingly one of the best places is Del Taco which is the equivalent to Taco Bell.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2010 2:35 PM
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GermanHarpist
1031 posts
Jan 22, 2010
2:41 PM
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harpwrench, "FYI I don't do this, I suggest you don't either! "
Lol, I understand ... there are quite a lot of other ways for me to destroy reeds :)
However, it seems like a very interesting subject to study as this really goes to the essence of what the reed actually is...
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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jonsparrow
1845 posts
Jan 22, 2010
7:59 PM
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whats about "de-stressing the reeds". buddah mentioned once thats something he does. what does that mean? only thing i can think of is blowing pot smoke through the harp.
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nacoran
855 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:13 PM
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Jon- You just hum, 'Ommmm, Ommmm, Ommmm' as you play. Pot would probably work too, or Xanax, anything that helps the reed feel centered and calm.
:)
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jonsparrow
1850 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:15 PM
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i have some xanax ill try that....or maybe ill just eat it.
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GermanHarpist
1038 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:38 PM
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I feed mine x and they just won't stand still...
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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jonsparrow
1856 posts
Jan 22, 2010
9:03 PM
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oh thats not good man. there gonna start playing rave melodies now.
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GermanHarpist
1041 posts
Jan 22, 2010
9:16 PM
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melodies?
Dancing To The Sound Of... Car Alarm? - Free videos are just a click away
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2010 9:28 PM
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RyanMortos
576 posts
Jan 22, 2010
9:28 PM
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HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa good one GH!
Okay, try to stop laughing *giggle*. I think the hardest part of harmonica modification is finding the time to sit down and do it.
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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jonsparrow
1859 posts
Jan 22, 2010
10:10 PM
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yep just like that. dam i hate ravers.
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