Oisin
412 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:37 PM
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Hey Joe,
I watched your videos on gapping and had a go tonight at work on two harps...an old masterklasse in C and a brand new SP20 in C also.
The masterklasse (pre-MS) worked really well and what was a very leaky harp is now much more responsive.
The SP20 is a different story. It sounded really good out of the box but I thought it might benefit froma little gapping. What is happening now is that if I attack both blow and draw notes gently they play really easily and bend easily too but if I want to play a little harder the reeds don't seem as responsive...its very strange, as if you need to really suck hard to get the bends to sound right...what have I done wrong??
Really grateful for any help or advice you can provide.
Oisin
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GermanHarpist
1039 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:45 PM
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I'll have a go at it disregarding the title. (Please Joe, go ahead and correct me where I'm wrong)
It seems pretty clear that they're gapped a little tight. I think a thing that you kind of have to read in between the lines in joe's vid is that you really have to gap the harp to your playing style. So if your attack is a little stronger you have to gap a little wider, etc...
You see that he actually plays licks (that prob from experience often expose the weeknesses of certain holes/reed gaps) through out the vid.
EDIT: ok just watched it again, and that was not quite right... he tests it in numerous ways.
-blowing lightly with resonance
-attacking it harder
-overblow, draw, blow (testing if they respond equally well)
-certain licks
-and jamming a little
i.e. the first one to determine the 'signiture sound..' of a well gapped reed and the other four to check 'in action'.
Another thing that I never heard mentioned but seems kinda obvious: You should also gap the reeds regarding to what postiion you play in (which kind of is the same as the previous point). However, without having really thought it through thoroughly: there are certain holes when played in certain positions that are attacked stronger and others are only used as passing tones... etc. So this is prob. also a thing that you could take into account.
Especially with bending gapping is of major importance as both reeds are actually involved, both have to be up to par. And I think it's holes 2 and 10 but espcially hole 3 that has to be nicely set up in that regard (although I'm not totally clear on how). All I have read was the the 3 draw can be gapped a little wider and the blow quite tight - but you'll have to check it out for yourselves.
Two things IMO are key when gapping: you have to develop a great sensibilty to how the harp reacts to your actions and the second one... well see my signature ;)
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2010 12:40 AM
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Oisin
414 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:51 PM
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Thanks for that GH...I'll give it a go when I get home from work. It was actually a really good harp when I got it out of the box and really didn't need any work but because the first one I did went so well I thought I should do it on the SP20 too. I think restraint is a skill I need to learn.
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GermanHarpist
1040 posts
Jan 22, 2010
8:57 PM
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Oisin, I added a little to my previous post...
" I think restraint is a skill I need to learn. " No, gapping is the skill you need to learn :).
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2010 8:59 PM
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Oisin
415 posts
Jan 22, 2010
9:18 PM
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Thanks GH...what I should have said was if it's not broken don't fix it.
One question for you. I do play quite hard on the harp so if I open up the draw gaps should I also open the blow gaps?
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GermanHarpist
1042 posts
Jan 22, 2010
9:23 PM
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That really depends... I'd say, just gap them pretty close and then test them. Start playing a little (with the covers off). When you feel that a reed is not responding nicely just open it up a little... that's how I do it (I recorded my HPC3 entry while gapping).
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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hvyj
94 posts
Jan 22, 2010
11:56 PM
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GH: the only work i ever perform on my harps is gapping them, but only if necessary. i don't OB but I do play in 6 different positions. Positions have nothing to do with how one gaps. Tone and response are the criteria i use. In other words, can i get the tone and response i want from a particular hole using my usual attack and the different attacks i might use in actual performance, no matter what position i am playing in. If not, i will adjust the gap until i can. But i don't adjust gaps unless i need to in order to get proper tone and response.
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GermanHarpist
1043 posts
Jan 23, 2010
12:24 AM
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Probably more something for advanced gapping, I'll give you that ;). But it only seems logic... if you have to gap depending on how you play and attack the notes. And you attack the notes differently depending on what positions you play. Well then you have to gap the harp depending on the positions.
Ok, maybe position is the wrong word. But let's say the scale, i.e. notes that you want to use. And how you want to use them, i.e. for what type of music. etc. etc. It all has to come into account IMO.
Maybe it's not important when you don't OB. But it definitely is when you do.
Following all that I have to say. I'm really quite unexperienced with gapping. But thats my view on things.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2010 12:55 AM
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GermanHarpist
1045 posts
Jan 23, 2010
12:57 AM
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After rereading your post... I see what you mean. You should gap so that you can play all that you would like to play on one harp... makes sense.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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harpwrench
152 posts
Jan 23, 2010
5:16 AM
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It's possible that you closed the gaps too much, then altered the reed curvature when opening them back up, especially if you opened them back up with pressure near the tip of the reed.
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Oisin
416 posts
Jan 23, 2010
10:40 AM
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Joe thanks for the reply. I gapped the reeds using a toothpick to make them all a bit closer (both draw and blow reeds) when I got the reply above from GH I then used a piece of paper to slide under the draw reeds and "plinked" thema few times to open them back up again, so yes it looks like I have put a bit of a curve on the reeds again.
As yet I haven't touched the blow reeds. I'm blowing on the 5 blow at the moment and it will only sound if I blow gently so I'm assuming I need to open this back up again?
Should I also massge the draw reeds to try and make them less curved?
This gapping is a tricky business! Thanks for any advice you can give on this. From what I've gathered so far I shouldn't be aiming to get very close tolerances just yet as I play a bit too hard for these small gaps to work?
Oisin
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harpwrench
153 posts
Jan 23, 2010
12:41 PM
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To close a gap or lesson/remove a curve I simply apply pressure in the appropriate spot with the intent of reversing the force that was applied to install the curve/gap at the factory in the first place.
To open a gap, the force is applied approximately to the mid-point of the free length.
There's a sweet spot that can be tricky to find, but it gets easier with experience and patience.
Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2010 5:05 PM
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Luke Juke
75 posts
Jan 23, 2010
12:51 PM
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I find that patience is everything when I'm working on my harps. I also find it easier on reeds from hole 7 down. I have to work it a bit, then test, work it a bit then test again.
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Oisin
417 posts
Jan 23, 2010
1:04 PM
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Joe, that's some great advice. Many thanks for taking the time to answer.
Thanks also to GH and Luke for your advice .
I've just had a go at opening some of the gaps back up and the SP20 plays much better now.
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isaacullah
599 posts
Jan 23, 2010
3:25 PM
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"When I gap a harp, I can play it quite hard and it won't choke, and it will also respond with very little breath. There's a sweet spot that can be tricky to find, but it gets easier with experience and patience. "
Amen, brother. Amen!
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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