ZackPomerleau
522 posts
Jan 27, 2010
1:36 PM
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Anybody like this album? I've listened to it before and quite honestly I don't think it's that great an album. The idea of it is cool, putting the white guys WITH the black guys, but I think when it was put on record it just didn't work out. Paul Butterfield, to me, doesn't sound right or good with Muddy Waters. It just sounds so out of place. So doesn't Bloomfield. I am a huge fan of those three, and it disappoints me to say this. What do you guys think?
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Bb
140 posts
Jan 27, 2010
1:42 PM
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O.K. Not a huge fan of that one either, Zack. BUT. BUT, check out Howlin' Wolf: The London Sessions. Holy Crap! It works there. Oh, and get Muddy Waters Hard Again and I'm Ready.
Killer.
-Bob
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Bb
141 posts
Jan 27, 2010
1:45 PM
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I say those Muddy Waters albums 'cuz Johnny Winter is BEYOND white. If we're just talking about pigment.
-Bob
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toddlgreene
626 posts
Jan 27, 2010
1:47 PM
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Johnny Winter is so white, he's transparent. Hard Again is GREAT!
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Todd L. Greene, V.P.
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ZackPomerleau
523 posts
Jan 27, 2010
1:50 PM
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Hard Again rules! Those London Sessions, isn't Clapton on it?
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Bb
142 posts
Jan 27, 2010
1:54 PM
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Yep.
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krisalis
4 posts
Jan 27, 2010
1:56 PM
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I like Fathers and Sons - I remember getting my local record shop to order it in for me about 20 years ago. Granted, maybe there was something about the production, or the chemistry between the players, that stopped it sounding as great as maybe you'd imagine it would. But overall I've found it an album I've come back to again and again. I also have Howlin' Wolf London sessions (on compact cassette). That's patchy too it think, but on a couple of those tracks it absolutely rocks.
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ZackPomerleau
524 posts
Jan 27, 2010
2:05 PM
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The live stuff is cool, but as you said, I can't listen to it often. I barely ever do.
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Elwood
314 posts
Jan 27, 2010
3:31 PM
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From the UK, the Howlin' Wolf London Sessions featured Eric Clapton, Bill Wyman, Charlie Watts, Jeff Carp, an uncredited Ringo Starr. It certainly has its moments.
Actually, Zack, I'm glad you brought up Fathers and Sons. I recently starting listening to this and honestly it hasn't always sat well with me. That metallic fierceness in Butterfield's tone and attack just isn't sitting right with me on many of the tracks.
I don’t think its problem is, as you seem to suggest, the juxtaposition of white and black musicians, or young and old for that matter. Aside from the near-transluscent Johnny Winter, let’s remember that the volcanic Muddy Waters band from the 70s was both multi racial and multi generational (Morganfield and Pinetop with Portnoy and Margolin).
Now that you've taken the step (brave, under the circumstances) of announcing your uncertainty about this album, I'm going to give it a damned thorough listening to figure out why it leaves me lukewarm.
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ZackPomerleau
530 posts
Jan 27, 2010
3:40 PM
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Elwood, I did not mean to imply it was bad because of color. That is NOT the case. Bloomfield and Butterfield are like punching you in the face, and Muddy and the rhythm is keeping you laid back. Sorry, by the way for not sending you a song, I was so busy with getting the IBC stuff right and getting there that I had no time to record.
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ZackPomerleau
531 posts
Jan 27, 2010
3:40 PM
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I see how you think I meant the two races made it a bad album. I meant to imply that the idea of Bloomfield and Butterfield playing with him was not so good.
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Elwood
315 posts
Jan 27, 2010
3:44 PM
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Off-topic BUT - apologies if it sounded like i was calling you out in the other thread. I fully understand that you got a jam-packed schedule. Like I said in the other thread, there will be a next time.
Back on-topic - ah, now we're getting somewhere. Two approaches to the blues clashing in that album? Maybe we ARE talking about a generational thing. Now that I think about it, Portnoy and Margolin WERE kind of old-school in their work with the Muddy Waters band, playing wonderfully but not really pushing the boundaries. So while their birth certificates say they're a different generation, musically they were replicators of the Muddy Waters sound, whereas Bloom and Butterfingers were reinventors of that sound.
Maybe that's where the clash comes in.
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 3:48 PM
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ZackPomerleau
533 posts
Jan 27, 2010
4:03 PM
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It's okay man! And, yeah, if I played with Muddy, I'd try to play like Walter or any of those guys, but Butterfield played like Butterfield. It's too much for the Muddy sound.
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Elwood
316 posts
Jan 27, 2010
4:29 PM
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Any Butterfiends care to weigh in here?
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Ray
103 posts
Jan 27, 2010
4:36 PM
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Paul stayed true to himself. He had his own sound and style and he stuck with it.
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ZackPomerleau
534 posts
Jan 27, 2010
4:40 PM
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Gotta agree with Ray, he did. It was a fantastic jam session, but I can't say it's a fantastic album.
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Diggsblues
62 posts
Jan 27, 2010
7:00 PM
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It's one of my favorites. Muddy loved butterfield's playing. I think of it as an evolution of the blues.
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Rick Davis
91 posts
Jan 27, 2010
7:26 PM
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Oh man... 40 Days and 40 Nights on this album is CLASSIC Butterfield. Just sensational. If you don't like that, you don't like blues harp.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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ZackPomerleau
537 posts
Jan 28, 2010
6:20 AM
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There are some good tracks, but All Aboard is bad, methinks. I can't remember much of the album, it's been a long time since I have listened to it.
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sonvolt13
30 posts
Jan 28, 2010
6:27 AM
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I think Butterfield's playing on that album is outstanding. IMO the solo on "Sugar Sweet" is one of the best blues harp solos of all time (the version with 24 bars of harp solo, not the version where they awkwardly dub in 12 bars of piano solo over the harp).
I recently read an article in Elwood magazine where they ask Greg Allman to pick an alltime greats band. The second person he mentions is Paul Butterfield.
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The Gloth
206 posts
Jan 28, 2010
6:53 AM
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I don't know the album, but I'm not a fan of Muddy Waters , neither of Butterfield. I listened once to a live album of Muddy with Johnny Winter and I absolutely hated it. All the songs sounded exactly the same, it was like "Mannish Boy" ten times with different lyrics.
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ZackPomerleau
541 posts
Jan 28, 2010
10:21 AM
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I admit, the playing is good, but I'm saying the playing mixed together, creating the music doesn't sound right. It sounds like two completely separate styles not blending well together.
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Elwood
318 posts
Jan 28, 2010
12:34 PM
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ELECTRIC MUD. Now there's an album someone should have to answer for.
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Ray
104 posts
Jan 28, 2010
12:52 PM
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"It sounds like two completely seperate styles not blending well together."
Zack, I think you hit the nail on the head.:)
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wallyns10
140 posts
Jan 28, 2010
2:42 PM
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No but thats just it, I was just about to bring up electric mud! Muddy HATED electric mud and thats why fathers and sons came out, to make up for electric mud. I read somewhere that Muddy was really happy because butterfield could sit in and let the blues be the blues. The live version of Got My Mojo Workin (may be a bonus track though) is god damn phenomenal! This album was the first place I heard butterfield play, and the first place I really listened to Muddy sing (this was like right when I started playing). Maybe thats why I have such an affinity for it. I stole my first licks from this album. I absolutely love it for the songs that I like, but I agree zack that it does have some duds. I don't see so much the lack of blending, not really sure why...I'm gonna go listen to it right now and think about the issue a little deeper
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ZackPomerleau
543 posts
Jan 28, 2010
3:15 PM
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That live stuff is AMAZING, I gotta say that! It's like two hurricanes flew by the studio, but they never became one, and you can hear that in the recordings.
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RyanMortos
583 posts
Jan 28, 2010
6:30 PM
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Fathers and Sons - One of the top 3 CDs I enjoy breaking out a harmonica and jamming along with. Hell yeah I like this album.
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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ZackPomerleau
544 posts
Jan 28, 2010
7:00 PM
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One of my favorites is the last tracks on Hooker N' Heat. SMOKIN'!
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kudzurunner
1018 posts
Jan 28, 2010
7:53 PM
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I've only heard about 10 minutes of the album, 25 years ago, so I can't really weigh in. But Butterfield/Muddy, per se, isn't a bad thing. Y'all know how much I love the Muddy Waters Woodstock Album with Butter on it. Some of Butterfield's best and most innovative blues playing is on THAT album.
Zack, I think what you're hearing with Bloomfield/Muddy isn't white/black at all, but West Side vs. South Side. I'm surprised nobody has pointed this out.
Imagine Otis Rush with Muddy. Or Jimmy "Fast Finger" Dawkins with Muddy. It's blues, it's CHICAGO blues, but it's sorta different stuff and it doesn't necessarily mix well. I suspect that's what you're sensing. Buddy and Junior could mix West Side guitar with harp, but Muddy was a generation earlier; guitar for him wasn't screaming lead. Bob Margolin knew that. He plays that old style--as does Paul Oscher. Bloomfield played his own original version of Magic Sam.
Magic Sam and Muddy?
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ZackPomerleau
545 posts
Jan 29, 2010
7:43 AM
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I want to point out I am not saying race, at all. I am commenting on their styles, like Adam is saying. I don't think color makes any difference here.
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Diggsblues
65 posts
Jan 29, 2010
8:07 AM
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A lot of what is going on here is hindsight.
During this period music was going back and forth
between styles. This kind of thing was driven by the
progressive rock movement. BB King would open up
for so many progressive rock acts. The pigeon hole
of music was not there yet.If it was good that's
all that mattered. So many Blues acts got into bigger
venues at this time. I remember going down the
shore with my parents through NJ and going past
a club and seeing BB King listed as the act on the
clubs sign. There were pockets of black communities
in NJ and this club was in one of them.
Within a year he had become big time.
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Ray
105 posts
Jan 29, 2010
8:52 AM
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And Muddy Waters Woodstock album is the only cd I have with an accordian on it. :>)
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9000
3 posts
Jan 29, 2010
9:46 AM
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It's a great album.
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