AC
1 post
Feb 02, 2010
8:28 PM
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AC here. Rick told me about this post so I checked it out and I felt compelled to jump in. Great discussion so far.
As it was pointed out the diminished tuning (or any tuning for that matter) is not the answer to everything. You do get a shorter range and the chords are not there. However, it is a great tuning for single note playing. I tried it and fell in love with it. It had nothing to do with overblowing or playing a certain style of music.
It IS possible to play in every key with relative ease - but again, that doesn't mean that it is the perfect match for all occasion. My personal goal is to get proficient at it so I could use it in any occasion. I hope I live long.
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2010 8:33 PM
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Rick Davis
164 posts
Feb 02, 2010
9:57 PM
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AC, it is great to see you here!
NOTE TO ALL: Please welcome AC. He does not share my opinions with respect to overblows, as far as I know. We have never discussed it. If you are mad at me, fine. Don't be mad at AC.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Pimpinella
64 posts
Feb 03, 2010
3:29 AM
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Welcome AC,
nice to have you here! So finally i learn about a someone who plays blues on a diminished harp. I know two more users of diminished harps, but they are both jazzcats. You gotta kick Rick in his butt to take a video of you playing instead of just a photo next time, we all wanna hear you :)
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AC
2 posts
Feb 03, 2010
9:51 AM
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Thanks for the kind words. For better or worse you'll get to hear some of the stuff I play on the diminished. I digged up a concert recording of decent sound quality from June and created a medley of harmonica parts to give you an idea what it sounds like. I'll upload it tonight to our myspace site and post a link to it.
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nacoran
987 posts
Feb 03, 2010
11:00 AM
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AC, welcome aboard. I had a post all typed out last night and the site when down for maintenance. Nice to have you here.
I thought since we are talking about alternative tunings I'd ask everyone what tunings they've tried. Overblow.com has a huge list of possibilities.
http://www.overblow.com/?menuid=26
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baldyak
1 post
Feb 03, 2010
11:16 AM
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In reading up on diminished tuning I came across Fourkey, which sounds very interesting to me. Anyone tried it?
Andy Newton did some write ups in '07 on Harmonica Sessions:
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/aug07/Newton.html
http://www.harmonicasessions.com/oct07/Newton.html
Also, hello everyone - nice to meet you all (been lurking a while)!
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AC
3 posts
Feb 03, 2010
2:58 PM
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I fooled around with different tunings. The only one I can name is the 'Augmented' tuning which is based on a similar idea as the diminished except the draw reeds are tuned 3 half notes above the blow ones (so if the blow reed is 'C' the draw reed would be 'Eb' then the next blow reed would be 'E' and so on). This gives a better range than a Richter tuned diatonic, but to me intonation suffered too much, especially on the high notes. However I heard some amazing stuff done on this tuning.
All the other tunings I tried were on the experimentation level(hey what happens if I tune this reed up a half note,etc). I'm sure they all have names but I can't remember them all.
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nacoran
1009 posts
Feb 03, 2010
3:31 PM
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Welcome aboard Baldyak. Nice links. I wish all the tunings on Overblow had that sort of info. So now my wishlist for alternative tunings expands to:
Diminished
Fourkey
Spanish
Slideless Chrom.
I know midi harps have a way to go, but even with limited sound quality I think someone could design a great system for trying out different tunings. Imagine walking into a harp store, (Ok, you could do it at home too, but it wouldn't be as cool) plugging in your mouthpiece (that you brought from home or bought so you don't have to worry about all the laws against playing harps before you buy them) and running through huge lists of tuning possibilities, just-equal variations, hole arrangements, and then asking for the harp you want.
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oldwailer
1054 posts
Feb 03, 2010
3:47 PM
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I'm getting ready to try some tunings now--in the recent past I have been playing around with the temperaments, and I seem to like the 7-limit or 19-limit the best--I can't really say that I can tell the difference between them, but I think the 7LJI might be slightly better for cross, and 19LJI might switch over to 3rd position a little better.
There is also a Richard Sleigh "Split the difference" kind of temperament that I want to try--it's in his book.
Another tuning I ran into from Richard Sleigh, I think, is the "extended Richter." I haven't tried to make one yet--but I'm going to--it just takes the bottom holes on the regular Richter and extends on up the harp with them--so you can bend the same on the upper harp as the lower. I haven't heard it--but it might be interesting as a novelty thing. . .
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AC
4 posts
Feb 03, 2010
9:30 PM
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As promised I put up a medley song from a gig from June 2009. It includes various solos, from several songs in different keys played by a single diminished tuned harmonica that has the same "C" note as the first blow hole as a regular "C" diatonic. Couple of notes:
1. I was (still am) fairly new to this tuning so there are some intonation issues. I like to believe I worked some of that out by now :)
2. The harmonica I was playing was my first attempt to create a diminished harmonica all by myself out of bits and parts (I used Special 20s). This was a lot of trial and error and the tuning wasn't as exact as I wanted it to be. Since then I am using a third generation home made harp which I believe is a lot better tuning-wise. I don't have any recording of that, unfortunetally but our CD is coming out soon which will feature a lot of harp.
The song is posted on my band's myspace site: http://myspace.com/themightyjivesters
Click on the song called "Diminished Medley". All other songs were recorded long before I picked up the diminished tuning.
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nacoran
1018 posts
Feb 03, 2010
9:41 PM
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AC- That's some nice tone. Very saxy on the low tones.
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Pimpinella
66 posts
Feb 04, 2010
12:36 AM
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Thank you AC, that are very nice and inspiring examples. Rick was right and your playing is very interesting with strong tone and lines. Remarkable is the compared to richter tuning strong minor sound.
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Rick Davis
172 posts
Feb 04, 2010
6:25 AM
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Here's a link to AC's Myspace page:
http://myspace.com/themightyjivesters
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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AC
5 posts
Feb 04, 2010
8:23 AM
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Pimpinella - I love the minor third sound during soloing, and the diminished tuning lends itself to that kind of phrasing anyway - hence the strong minor sound. I use a lot of third position when playing Richter and a lot of that transferred quite nicely to the diminished tuning.
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AC
6 posts
Feb 04, 2010
8:55 AM
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Nacoran - thanks for your comments and thanks for checking out the 'medley'. It's great getting feedback. It think half valving the harmonica (which I don't care for doing on a regular Richter tuned harp) makes a huge difference in being able to get a nice tone on the blow notes (usually those notes would be less 'dominant' - meaning the higher tuned draw notes sound much stronger without half valving).
The drawback is that you can't overblow the holes when you valve. On a diminished tuning you can overblow each hole and you will get the next hole's blow note. Even though you get a note you already have a well sustained overblow can be very expressive, sliding slighty in and out of tune. And when you have to hit the note clearly or in a fast run you have the option to just use the blow note of the next hole. I think that has a lot of potential - but I don't use the tuning that way. I prefer the half valved solution - and of course you can do valve bends on a well setup half valved harp. That can also be very expressive.
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2010 8:56 AM
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toddlgreene
728 posts
Feb 04, 2010
6:19 PM
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AC-I really dug that tune!
You have me wanting to try diminished now.
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Todd L. Greene, V.P.
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AC
7 posts
Feb 04, 2010
10:02 PM
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Thanks! You should try it, it's fun.
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