I have a problem with one of my harps. When I want to bend down the 3rd hole of a D harp a whole step I have a hard time hitting the correct pitch. A half step works fine and so does a 1 1/2 step bend. Just around the full step the tone gets weak and squeaky and wants to jump up or down. I don't have that problem with any of my other harps from LF to F and other D harps so I guess it's not mainly a playing technique problem. The setup looks good visually. Any ideas what the cause of this might be?
thanks!
---------- If it ain't broke you just haven't fixed it enough ...
I have exactly the same trouble with the D harp and with high harps in general. I like to control the bends with my throat on the low harps, but on the high harps, it's less throat and more mouth cavity that does the controlling, and when the tongue is moving, that's hard. I regapped about 8 harps this week, but I've just tried the D and it's no better, so practice is the answer - you've gotta like those high harps, and I just don't! It would be interesting to ask Jason if he likes high harps because this is played on an Eb and I wonder why he chose that one. It would be interesting to ask all the pros what they think of high harps - do they like them, or do they play them only when they have to? Jason has said that he doesn't have an F# (implying that he has a low F#), which is interesting - I'd have thought a pro would be a completist (he he, I've looked at those Seydel high A harps and the SBS (high) A and thought it would be fun to have more money and more time to practice!)
---------- Kinda hot in these rhinos!
Last Edited by on Feb 05, 2010 2:39 AM
Usually I prefer lower keys as well and I try to switch positions if possible to avoid the high ones but sometimes the song calls for a certain position and they do have their qualities. Nevertheless I still think the setup on this one can be improved. The same bends do work nicely on the E and F harps and even on a Big River D that isn't set up half as nice as this one I have no problem bending hole 3 a full step accurately. If I gradually bend hole three down everything is fine within the first half step. Then the sound gets squeeky and the pitch drops almost down to the bottom (1 1/2 steps) where it is nice and fat again. I am sure I can overcome this with more practice and I am working on it or I could simply use a different harp but my point is simply that I want to learn something about setting up a harp. This specific problem is something I can't figure out myself ...
---------- If it ain't broke you just haven't fixed it enough ...
Here comes how I think the problem could be solved (I should add that when talking about the reeds I'm always referring to them stand-alone as if the other reed was blocked off):
You may already know, but I'll mention it anyway: The bend is a combination of the draw reed chaning down in pitch (just like bends on a valved chromatic harp) and the blow reed changing up in pitch (just like when bending up the overdraw, i.e. activated with an inverse airstream).
The reason that it is hard to bend the 3 hole is because one of the two or both aren't set up properly.
So how do you set it up: I have read and I'm pretty sure it's true that there is an easy fix in gapping. I.e. by gapping the draw reed a little wider (as this let's you bend it down further) and the blow reed a little closer.
However, I've tried that a couple of times and it doesn't always do the trick. So I've thought about it quite a lot the last couple of days (but haven't tried it out yet) and came up with the following.
If you look only at the draw reed (i.e. blow reed closed off/valved) it is intuitively clear, that it would be able to bend down further when it is gapped a little wider (I can't physically explain why though). However eventually there's a trade off between the ability to bend it down and the responsiveness.
So obviously the focus goes to the blow reed. As this reed has to bend up like when overblowing it should be that the setup is quite similar to the blow reed that you want to overdraw, or of course, the draw reed that you want to overblow. So I'm not very proficient at it, but I think that besides gapping it closer (which again seem intuitively clear, although again I can't explain why) especially embossing should help a great deal. But it would probably be good if an overblow player/tinkerer could confirm this motion.
So basically as far as I see it's these three things: gapping the draw reed a little wider, the blow reed a little closer and embossing the blow reed. However I'm quite sure that embossing the draw reed wouldn't be bad either.
Disclaimer: That's just an educated guess, f-in up your harp is your own responisbility ;).
Btw. I made liping apologize good.
---------- germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Feb 05, 2010 5:33 AM
Thanks, that makes sense. Now that I think about it I have never paid much attention to the relation of the gapping of the two holes. I just set them up close enough that they respond nicely and wide enough so that they won't choke but I never checked which of them is wider. I guess there's no need for embossing. It's an 1847 and they already come with very tight tolerances.
makes sense ... thanks, I'll give it a try
---------- If it ain't broke you just haven't fixed it enough ...
Last Edited by on Feb 05, 2010 5:17 AM
I suggest you try to lower the gap of te blow reed gradually... test the blow reed by making a powerful uhh sound when exhaling and when the reed chokes open the gap a tiny bit.
I like to set up the draw reed as flat as possible ...2/3 of the reed ( starting from the rivet side) should be almost flat/in line with reedplate and from there the reed has a slight curve . You can do the same to the blow reed and " maybe" use less curving .
You can do all this with great result without embossing the reedplates. Embossing ( when it is done well!!) will make things a little easier on hole 3. After setting up hundreds of harps you will find a way that works for you!!! :-)) BUT... breathing technique is of course essential... I do on-line lessons through SKYPE covering things ike breathing techniques. Here in Holland I do things like a 4-hour workshop on breathing and tonebuilding..!
I think you have a problem harp(most likely), or a technique issue(less likely). I don't think that a D harp is that far removed from either the C or E (or the Db or Eb for that matter). I don't think gapping is going to solve your problem. The only thing a wider gap is going to give you is a chance to use more air when bending (playing harder).
A more responsive harp will have tighter gaps, but should match your playing style. Widening you gaps should not be an issue unless you are choking notes with too much breath force, you should be closing them down to match how you play.
Perhaps there is something I don't know about the stainless reeds in the 1847, so someone else might be able to answer that one.
GH- You get to have all the fun, so I went in and made sure he had no links left. How is he a 16 posts spammer and still have a membership?
edit- GH, I searched on his name and found more old spam. I also noticed some of his posts were so long that I'd delete everything I saw and still there would be a little left at the bottom. He sure is enthusiastic. I sent the Sheriff an email with the member's name.
Last Edited by on Feb 05, 2010 8:37 AM
