gmacleod15
34 posts
Feb 05, 2010
6:16 PM
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It was discussed what is best...to have the mic volume turned full and the amp turned down or to have the mic turned down and the amp turned up.
I was wondering which way most players go. I guess it depends on a lot of factors like personal preference, gear, the sound you are trying to put forward i.e. whether clean or cruched.
I use a fender blues jr and shure 520dx and I find the amp up and mic down works best to get the sound I want (mostly trying to learn some Little Walter)
Anyway I would be interested to know what most use as their settings.
PS Leonid I regardless of all the volume discussion on your topic, I thought you sounded good.
Last Edited by on Feb 05, 2010 6:18 PM
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ZackPomerleau
677 posts
Feb 05, 2010
6:32 PM
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I think you should have your mic's volume all the way up and then work with the amp for the volume you need. Get to the point where it ALMOST feedbacks.
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Ev630
39 posts
Feb 05, 2010
8:51 PM
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You don't even need to get to that point, if you have the right amp.
I just turn it up to gig volume, using a black label CR mic and adjust the tone controls to give me bass, mids and cut. Usually presence all the way up. When it sounds fat and barky, it's good to go. Remember you aren't going to be screaming into a tight seal all night long unless you hate your audience.
This amp isn't cranked:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Ev630#p/u/10/zXOV2z1Mn0c
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ZackPomerleau
678 posts
Feb 05, 2010
9:01 PM
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Ev, you are correct. Plus, I think whatever YOU like is what goes. I just know what I tend to do. It's either what I described, or what you described, even.
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ZackPomerleau
681 posts
Feb 05, 2010
10:28 PM
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Ev, I've seen that video before, by the way. That's some serious tone. Are you using the beef nob, or whatever it's called?
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Ev630
41 posts
Feb 06, 2010
1:13 AM
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No that's through the lo-gain channel, not the 'Meat' channel.
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Ev630
42 posts
Feb 06, 2010
1:16 AM
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Altho, looking at the vid, maybe it was the MEAT channel. I can't remember. All I remember is when I was gigging with the Meteor I used the lo gain channel and a crystal mic - I much preferred it to the fatter channel.
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walterharp
220 posts
Feb 06, 2010
8:31 AM
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It is a weird balance with old style harp microphone elements. They are bumped in the mids because they were made to push vocals through radios and old time pas etc, but players often scoop the mids by dropping the middle part of the tone out (if they have a 3 knob tone setting), and it can be tough to find the right balance. I have been tending toward a less scooped sound at the amp recently, but the mids are set lowest.
Personally, I use the mic volume all the way up, and then to get a fatter solo sound have a lone wolf octave with just a bit of the effect turned on, but the gain set to give a bit of a volume boost. Most of the time I play in bypass mode, but can do one foot click when I need that bump to overdriven sound. Pretty close to what guitar players do with the foot switch to the gain channel. That pedal also seems to tame feedback at higher volumes.
Also as far as tone settings, I have found it sounds better out (as evidenced by recordings) to have the treble higher. Bass travels but treble drops quicker with distance, so what sounds nice and full at the amp on stage sounds boomy and more muddy in the audience. As the night goes on and the band gets louder (and they always do) when the sound guy says I need to come up a bit in volume, I use the treble nob on the amp rather than the master volume.. it gives more cut with less total volume increase.
The volume switch on the mic is used to turn it off between sets and songs when i don't play
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Rick Davis
183 posts
Feb 06, 2010
8:38 AM
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Ain't no right way! Ya just gotta twist the knobs and stop when it sounds good. If it sounds good, it IS good.
My point here is that you need to try all settings yourself BEFORE getting influenced by conventional wisdom or someone else's recommendation. I learned this the long way 'round.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Greg Heumann
275 posts
Feb 06, 2010
8:56 AM
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Agree with Rick here. I advise beginners to set the mic's VC at max, then adjust the amp until just below feedback - that way they're always safe. Also if their VC isn't well matched to their mic this minimizes tone loss.
However, and for specific example, if you turn the amp all the way up and sneak the mic's VC up, you can get a more compressed sound - it is WAY COOL this way on a Kalamazoo (which was cool enough already.)
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/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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6SN7
2 posts
Feb 06, 2010
9:11 AM
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Sage advise Greg when dialing in on a Kalamazoo , a Silvertone or other low fi, low watt boxes. On bigger beast amps , to dial in as you suggest would wake the neighbors. I guess I would make sure to get it right at home before venturing out to play.
What's folks opinions on VC's? Many think they are half the problem in getting tone.
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toddlgreene
735 posts
Feb 06, 2010
9:30 AM
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funny you bring up VC. Last night I sat in with a local blues band, and the front man has a RI Bassman, and a CR Bullet with a vc. Never knowing what to expect from someone else's gear, I didn't max the mic's volume when i took the stage, and noticed I wasn't getting the honk. He set his up just as Greg states, which is a good thing. I quickly figured it out and cranked it up and got the good honking tone. You're limiting yourself if you set your mic up based on its volume trimmed back a bit.
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Todd L. Greene, V.P.
Last Edited by on Feb 06, 2010 9:31 AM
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6SN7
4 posts
Feb 06, 2010
10:30 AM
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If you set it up that way, it sounds like your are going to be the loudest in the band our perhaps the one everybody else gears off , right?
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Ev630
43 posts
Feb 06, 2010
12:20 PM
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You're limiting yourself if you set your mic up based on its volume trimmed back a bit.
I agree. I rarely use a mic with a VC myself.
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congaron
510 posts
Feb 06, 2010
12:28 PM
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I use a mic without a VC. I run my wireless receiver into my digitech rp80. I have it setup with a few settings where the expression pedal is always the volume control. When I play, I just step on the pedal. The level is set during soundcheck...I have several max volume presets and i can always turn it down with the pedal.
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Greg Heumann
277 posts
Feb 06, 2010
1:11 PM
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There is an old wive's tale that a volume control sucks tone from your mic, but that is ONLY true for crystal elements used with a VC that was optimized for a CR/CM/Dynamic element.
I have probably sold more volume controls for harp players than anyone else in the world. Every one comes with a money-back guarantee. Nobody has ever returned it saying they didn't find it useful. In fact, the opposite is true - even among dyed-in-the-wool non-VC users who decided to try one, or played through someone's mic that had one. Once they've had one, they say they would never set up without it.
And please don't tell me a volume control is just a substitute for poor dynamic control. I happen to have perfectly good dynamic control, and I STILL like having a volume control! (So do guitar players, by the way. )
And no matter how you set it up - there's no excuse to be too loud. You don't HAVE to set the amp up just below the feedback threshold. Again, I was saying what I tell beginners - most beginners have amps that are too small to be heard at jams where they have their only chance to play, so that's how to get the most volume safely. I adjust my amp while the VC is fully open, but I don't put the amp on the edge of feedback because I don't need to. I have a big amp.
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/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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Ev630
44 posts
Feb 06, 2010
1:25 PM
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My problem is when they get dust in them and start crackling. What contact cleaner do you recommend, Greg, and any tips on keeping them smooth and quiet?
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Ray
127 posts
Feb 06, 2010
2:03 PM
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"There is an old wive's tale that a volume control sucks tone from your mic, but that is ONLY true for crystal elements used with a VC that was optimized for a CR/CM/Dynamic element" Greg Heumann
Thanks for explaining that. I've always heard that but didn't know why.
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gmacleod15
35 posts
Feb 06, 2010
6:42 PM
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Thanks for all the comments. Tonight I tried VC on full and I think I like this better...that may all change next week when I get my new old 1968 CM element mic.
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gmacleod15
38 posts
Feb 14, 2010
11:23 AM
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My 1968 vintage shure 520SL green bullet with a 99B86 CM element arrived this weekend. I have to say that I do like it better than my modern 520DX as it seems to have a better low end and provides the crunch I like. I did have to turn the treble up some though on the amp. I am also turning the VC near max to get the best sound as suggested by some you.
However I still think the 520DX sounds good despite some of the bad reviews on this site. The only complaint I have with the 520DX is that the cord fails at the mic. My last repair included some heat shrink tubing that catches a bit of the cable and a bit of the spring like cable protector. This seems to have secured the cable better from twisting and eventually failing.
My new (old) 520SL was moded with an XLR to 1/4" connector which seems to be a more permanant solution.
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