I am playing a lee oskar A harp and Im pretty sure i have been bending my 2 draws and 3 draws too hard and it is flatting the reed permanently. i tried adjusting it back but it always sounds like shit after. Am i inhaling too hard? when I do it softer i still get a bend but its not as loud is that still good. Is there a way to fix the harp after its broke? any help would be great this is getting to be an expensive learnig prossess is this normal for a beginer
Where's BBQ Bob to explain the problem? Bob? Well, triumph, he'll be along shortly to assist you. Meanwhile, I'll warn you that you most likely are playing with too much breath force. Sustaining the air column is important but, it doesn't take take a large volume of air to play loudly... Resonance is the key there.
I've never tried repairing a Lee Oscar but, yes, the reeds can be replaced. Not sure if they sell replacement plates for them either. Actually, I don't think I have ever blown out a reed on a LO.
I blew out quite a few harps when I started out too. It's what pushed me into learning to replace the reeds so early on. Work with your breath control and things will improve and you harps will last longer.
Ok, first things first, what exactly are you doing when you say you bend it back? If you've just flattened the reed you can re-tune it. There are videos on YouTube to re-tune, but it involves shaving some metal off the reed very carefully (as long as you haven't blown out the reed.) I can't find the video link I was looking for, but Richard Sleigh, Dave Payne and Chris Michalek all have good videos on fixing harps. I haven't retuned a harp myself.
Second, don't play so hard!!!
Of course, it's hard not to get carried away sometimes. With the right technique you shouldn't have to play that hard to to get the bends. But it is definitely OK to play softly. One of the suggestions you'll hear on the forum a lot is to play like there is a baby sleeping in the next room.
If you need more volume, particularly playing with other instruments, let a microphone and amp be your friend. The first time I blew out a harp was when I was playing with a friend of mine who plays guitar for the first time. The second time I blew out a harp was when I was playing with the same friend for the second time.
When you don't have to be loud, play softly. It will improve your dynamics. When you have to play loud, let the microphone do some of the work for you. There are good players who blow out harps regularly, but there are also good players who don't.
If you still have questions, give as many details as you can in your post and be as specific as you can. Pictures of your harp reeds or sound clips can help. Saturday nights are sometimes slow on the forum, but some of the guys who are better at working on the insides of harps should stop by eventually. :)
When I went to post Java hadn't posted yet. Yes, you can get new reed plates for Lee Oskars. They cost about 2/3 of the cost of replacing the harp, so they save you some money but they are still pricey. If you have a mechanical knack, learning to do all the stuff inside the harp is real useful. Some people really enjoy doing it too. It's also useful for just getting familiar with the instrument. Lee Oskars actually have a reputation for being harder to blow out than most other harps (but harder to do some of the advanced techniques on) so you are probably blowing up a gale forced wind!
If he has truly flatted a reed (blown it) there is no permanent fix for that reed. I have seen cases where retuning can temporary sharpen it but it won't last long... sometimes as little as the very next test. Flatting a reed structurally damages the reed. There is no fix other than replacement. Nothing that will last, that is.
thanks guys for the info and taking time to help a new guy. I think actually trying to be easier on it ahs helped my playing a bit it sounds more in tune and I bought a roland cube amp so I am using a mic now as far as what im doing to try to fix it is filing them down a bit on the sides and tip to make it not stick and kind of lifting on them gently but it still sounds flat I am thinking of getting that manual on the richard sleigh site and a lee oskar repair kit to help. I think i need to use my mouth shape and drop my tonge more than a harder inhale for the bend its difficult though because im tongeblocking. am I looking for a slite change on the 2 draw or a deep change? Thanks again for the help it good to know there are friends to help you out.
Java- Yeah, like I said, I've only blown out a couple of reeds and they were on really cheap harmonicas so I just through them in my junk harp box in case I got ambitious to teach myself to fix it. Your right, there certainly is a point of no return.
When I've tried messing around with embossing I actually worried the reed bad enough that the tip came off. I'm glad I bought some cheap BluesBands just to practice working on the insides on.
One more thing to try, JP, if you have a tuner around you might want to try playing into that and seeing how flat you are and seeing how much you can affect it by changing how you are blowing. Make sure you aren't bending the note when you're not trying.
Yes, those bends dont take much more air at all. Pull that bent note right down your throat (you can really feel what I'm talking about on those lower notes like the 1 & 2 draw on your A harp)to make it drop and drop your jaw and shape your mouth and tongue for the proper resonance.
Yes, Nac.. no questions at all about what you've written.. our posts are crossing in mid air... I think we are all on the same page.
Last Edited by on Feb 13, 2010 10:18 PM
try switching to SP20's if you have to make adjustments. Lee Oskars are not forgiving for reed work FOR ME it seemed every time I touched a reed it was ruined. until you learn to control a little better the SP20's will stand up a little better under the abuse ----------
The Original Downtown Philadelphia Fatman... Accept No substitutes!
One other thing, Triumph.. You shouldnt be filing AT ALL on the side (edges ) of the reed. Just the flat part of the tip or rivet end. Are If the reeds are sticking they may need adjusting from side to side in the slot or maybe they need cleaning. Perhaps there is a burr in the side of the slot? Deburr the slot with a ten thousandth to twenty thousandth shim.
jp- If you haven't used it before there is a program called 'Bendometer' that is useful for learning bends and such. There is a free trial period. It shows up as a giant harmonica on your screen and as you play the notes it shows you which bend you are playing and more importantly, how accurately your hitting it. It's more user friendly than a tuner. On the two hole you can bend down a whole step and on the three hole a one and half steps, instead of just the half-step you can get on most of the other holes so it's useful for getting the pitch right.
Yes, Jp... You're on the right track but those notes need to be bent down further. Drop your jaw and the best way I can describe it is to grab that bend that's right there in the front of your mouth, just behind your teeth and drop your jaw slowly and pull it right back in your mouth down into your throat.
That first harp you played may have a blown reed but it may also have an obstruction... I'll go back and listen again.
Last Edited by on Feb 13, 2010 10:41 PM
Yes... resonance is the key to good tone. That air column that you feel can extend all the way into your belly. When I play, I feel the sound inside... like I'm a saxophone. Work with that column of air for your tone.
Sorry about the tone. My poor little computer microphone's stand is broken. I've got it wedged between the two sections of my desk and I have to lean over to get it to pick up. It's kind of an awkward position to play in.
Last Edited by on Feb 13, 2010 11:09 PM
edit.. NOW I see it was you, Nac, with the audio clip... well there you go. Makes more since now. Maybe I should go on to bed? :)
Last Edited by on Feb 13, 2010 11:20 PM
As you may know, there are three useful notes available on that 3 draw. the B (unbent), the B flat (half step bend), and the A (whole step) and the A flat/G# (step & a half).
Check this out: http://harmopoint.com/index.php/harmonica-virtuel
thanks nac that clip was good thanks java for the bendometer i got it and it works good i think my lee oskar a is actualy fine now that i check it on the bendo meter program. it actualy bends easier i almost have to try to not bend it. you guys must be on the west coast or just up real late
Oh great Java, a website that uses my signature tune as it's second lesson.
Actually, that's actually pretty useful. If they could cross that, all of overblow.com's alternate tunings, an the bendometer and it would be a killer app. I think one of the hardest parts about harmonica lessons is usually you can't see what the instructor is doing.
JP, the advice you're getting about breath force being your biggest problem here is the cold, hard, brutal truth, and 98% of newbies and 50-75% of intermediate players have this problem in common. Most players often never think they play too hard but the vast majority of them aren't arond really skilled players, especially pros that won't hesitate to get int their face about it.
Along with the breath force issue, it also makes another problem that's also happening here, and that you're now playing with a wet mouth almost to the point of slobbering in the harps, and that can clog up the reeds, and wherever it dries, it will DRASTICALLY, and often negatively alter the reed's pitch.
Too many people tend to believe that people working in brick and mortar music stores or music writers for that matter the stuff saying a player blew so hard, and 98% of them have never played harp in their lives, and in music stores, 98% of the people working there, including management, are totally clueless about the instrument and they're the WORST people in the world to be asking for advice, and this has been true for decades and only getting worse. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2010 12:38 PM
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
JP, the site Java gave you wasn't the bendometer I was talking about (although it was really cool and useful.) If you still want to look into that program, here's a link. It's really useful for finding the right pitch on deep bends.
http://www.harmonicagame.com/
edit-bendometer actually works with your microphone like a tuner.
Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2010 3:25 PM
Hi Bro when i first started playing i could wreck most any harps Lee Oskars,,Hohner Sp 20's,,Susuki Pro Masters..it was mostly due to the above suggestions Blowing and Drawing way to Hard,,it did calm down quit as lot over the years but still some times i would stuff up a harp bend it out of tune within a week,,My Methiod of playing was Lip Purseing back then i Tongue Block now and find that the Lip Pursing technic did contribute to wrecking Harps allso try the above suggestions and maybe try Tongue Blocking it will force you to Blow softer the air pools in the mouth chamber befor going in to the Harp directly with lip Purseing..
What happens when you use too much breath force all the time is that from the force, you're seriously overstressing the reeds, and this is made 10 times worse in the note bending process and so what happens is that microscopic cracks AKA stress fractures form on the reeds, and once this happens, the reed structure has been badly comprimised and will only get MUCH WORSE, and so the reed gets flatter and flatter until the structure of the metal weakens so badly, it cannot be retuned back to pitch and worse case scenerio, the reed finally breaks apart at the crack and the reed or harp will have to be replaced.
Playing with too much breath force all the time is flat out bad playing technique.
LO's long have had a reputation for long lasting products and most people I know who play them, they last a minimum of 2-5 years, often well over 10 years and if ione is blowing them out quicker than a year, it's blatantly obvious too much breath force is bring employed.
Breath force has little to do with either the TB or pucker method because I know lots of players who do both methods and there are plenty of players whp play far too hard using either method, so the idea that you can't play too hard TB'ing is a myth. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Bending the reeds to the floor often also will make them go flat FAST. Get yourself a cheap chromatic tuner, and bend the notes down 1/2 step at a time, keeping an eye on the tuner. That's a good way to not bend those reeds too far. ---------- Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on Feb 15, 2010 12:12 PM
I echo Mr. Bob: the bend happens in your mouth *and* in the harp - you're making a shape that changes the airflow between the two reeds, you're not 'bending' the reed like in a test of (breath) strength.
