gmacleod15
42 posts
Feb 16, 2010
3:47 PM
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So I'm jamming to Juke ...i.e listen' to the cd and playing amped. I've studied Adam's lesson and have that down pretty good but its taken a long time to get the rest. It will likely take me more than a year with my playing....I'm going to get it though.
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MBH member since 2009-03-24
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jonsparrow
2310 posts
Feb 16, 2010
4:25 PM
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i donno ill let you know once i finished learning it.
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conjob
7 posts
Feb 16, 2010
4:43 PM
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i can't play it. a guy has transcribed the whole thing:
http://www.celticguitarmusic.com/juke1.htm
good luck with it.
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conjob
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addict
88 posts
Feb 16, 2010
5:05 PM
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That's a hard question...I think it depends on how advanced a player you are and what it means to you to "learn it".... it IS one of the songs my teacher assigned and it was about six weeks before he thought I had learned it well enough to move on to something else, meaning figured out the notes by ear and have the phrasing down pretty well. BUT, I still don't think I have all the techniques right. And I am NOT LW, nor am I trying to be, so I guess never in that sense.
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gmacleod15
43 posts
Feb 16, 2010
5:24 PM
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@Addict
True, I'm just curious how people approach learning tunes.
I am an intermediate player at best by A.G.'s guide. I am learning Juke and probably a dozen other songs at the same time with no teacher...just playing along and having fun. I try to improve by using techniques found on MBH. That's how my harp journery is going.
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MBH member since 2009-03-24
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addict
89 posts
Feb 16, 2010
5:29 PM
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Well I think that jamming with a song even when you are a real beginner can give you a big advantage when you get ready to learn a tune. For example, I had jammed early on with Off the Wall... before I had much skill at all and as a new musician. It took very little time to learn Off the Wall even though I hadn't done anything with it in a long time.
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OzarkRich
109 posts
Feb 16, 2010
5:41 PM
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I'm hoping to learn it May 22-23! :)
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Ozark Rich
YouTube: OzarkRich
Facebook: php?ref=profile&id=100000279894342
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littleeasy
4 posts
Feb 16, 2010
6:53 PM
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It took me about 3 months but I learned it by note. To ensure I keep it I play it at least once a week to a backing track I found on youtube titled TEXAS SHUFFLE KEY OF E it has the same number of bars and has the breaks in the music just perfect. I couldnt believe I found a backing track that matched juke like this one did. It is a more modern beat and with some jump to it give it a try and let me know what you think
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isaacullah
730 posts
Feb 16, 2010
8:37 PM
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This is interesting. Why is Juke seen as such a quote unquote milestone for learning harp? (ie. I have heard many times "If you can't play 'Juke', then you can't really play harp yet" or something along those lines. I know this kind of thing is usually only said by blues harp players, but it seems to be an archetype among harp players nonetheless.
Personally, I am no longer interested in learning Juke (I've posted about this here before). I can do the intro and up to the second turnaround, and then I just never bothered to learn anymore (It probably took me about three weeks to learn that part, and I had Hal Leonard's book as a guide. I was about an advanced beginner at the time). I like the song just fine (to listen to); I'm just not interested in ever learning to play it myself.
I guess my interests are different than a lot of blues players in that, while I have learned a few of the traditional tunes (ie. Mojo, Baby Please Don't Go, Rollin' and Tumblin') there are actually only a very few of those kinds of song I'm actually interested in playing (those I listed plus a small number of others). Instead of these trad blues stuff, I'm interested a lot more in contemporary blues interpretations (ie. like Adam's stuff [which is why I'm here on this forum] or a lot of the RL Burnside, Robert Belfour, T Model Ford, hill country stuff) and other music forms (Hip Hop, Punk, Alternative, Funk, Soul, R&B, etc.). Ironically, I like that really old delta sound way more than the Chicago sound most blues harp players are hearkening to.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2010 8:38 PM
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blueswannabe
31 posts
Feb 16, 2010
8:54 PM
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I go back and forth between the tabs and the music, if I can find the tabs ( and they are not always accurate and the same tune can have different tabs.) The tabs to me are essential. It gives you a fighting chance. Then I will listen and/or watch different musicians play the same tune and look for the variations. I try to learn the tune by sections and I don't move on to the next section until I figured out the one before it. I have not purchased, although I am very tempted to purchase the slow downer software and the harp key software, which can help identify the particular note or phrase. THat may speed the process along, but still no gaurantees there. Also, I will look for artist song listings to identify the key of the tune, the key of the harp and what position it's in. And even after all that it can still be a mystery. I might plug in the amp and see how it sounds and then go back to acoustic. Once you get all the notes, there's the timing and the phrasing. And then putting it all together to music. And then you still don't have it down. So then you forget about it and a couple weeks later you pick it up again. So 3 months to learn a tune is good progress but it could take longer. It's never the way you want it to be anyway even after 3 months. Juke has some challenging timing changes which makes it more difficult for me anyway.
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Rick Davis
210 posts
Feb 16, 2010
8:57 PM
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I've never sat down and learned Juke note for note, even though my band includes it occasionally in our set list. As long as I get the first 8 bars and the turnarounds right, and hit the themes of the different verses, it's fine with me and people seem to like it a lot. Why learn it note for note?
I play it different every time. I understand that Little Walter did, too. Sometimes I mix in stuff from Big Walter's Boogie. Sometimes I repeat the first verse at the end of the song. Who cares? It is a fun song.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Bluefinger
83 posts
Feb 17, 2010
12:43 AM
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I haven't spent too much time trying to learn that particular song (although I love it!) but the hardest thing for me is the opening lick ... I can't play that jump to the 6-9 blow octave accurately. It's a hit and miss thing. I could fake it with the 3-6 octave but it just doesn't sound right so I'm working on it. The phrasing in the second chorus where he stays on the 2 draw is tricky too.
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If it ain't broke you just haven't fixed it enough ...
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krisalis
5 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:34 AM
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Bluefinger, I put a little square of duck tape over holes 7 and 8 for the first verse, then whip it off (I'm sure I'm about to be berated by some purists very soon)
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Kingley
863 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:57 AM
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Isaac - It's simply because Juke is the most famous blues harmonica instrumental of all time. It's the only one to ever reach number one in the music charts. That is the reason why so many people hold it as a benchmark to be attained.
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LIP RIPPER
180 posts
Feb 17, 2010
3:53 AM
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Rick, I've found myself doing the same type of mix between the two. There's a lot of boogie ammo in the two.
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Jfllr1
148 posts
Feb 17, 2010
4:29 AM
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A few months to get the first 95%- but the last 5 I still havent got.
@Bluefinger tongue block out of the left hand side of your mouth, it takes a while to learn but it solves the problem.
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"Blow as thou pleaseth"
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Luke Juke
130 posts
Feb 17, 2010
4:34 AM
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3 years and counting!!
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eharp
518 posts
Feb 17, 2010
5:49 AM
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"It's simply because Juke is the most famous blues harmonica instrumental of all time."
that's a bold statement.
i think more folks would know recognize whammer jammer than juke.
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Bluefinger
87 posts
Feb 17, 2010
6:57 AM
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@Jfllr1 ... This left tounge block is driving me nuts. Playing octaves never was a problem. I almost got that down on the first try. Right tounge block took a while but now it's second nature. Left tounge block ... don't ask me about it ... I don't know what's so hard about it if you got that down the other way around. I guess I'm simply too stupid
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If it ain't broke you just haven't fixed it enough ...
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hepcat
15 posts
Feb 17, 2010
10:07 AM
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It took me a full month of pactice for ~2hr/day (I'm slow) to learn after playing for about 11 months. I learned it from tab note for note. I like learning songs as I treat them as study material. After that I can take bits and pieces of what I learned and fit them into other songs or during improvisation.
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barbequebob
485 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:10 AM
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When I first started with this tune, I learned it note for note, and more so, dynamic for dynamic, which many players often DON'T learn, and this tune is a great example of both breath control and dynamics.
In the 70's, nearly every white blues band played Juke, Off the Wall, Back Track, and Rocker, often horribly (and I DON'T mean it not by playing note for note) often sounded really classic white: rushed and way ahead of the beat, and very grooveless as hell, and it got to the point that I hated hearing it and often refused requests to play it.
The last time I was requested to do it and I did it was when I was on the road with Jimmy Rogers, one of the guitarists in the original, at his request, and I didn't do it note for note, but gave him the sound and feel without cloning LW at all, and I could periodically see him with a smile on his face with approval, and that man knew harp because he was also a damned good player as well.
When Juke came out in 1952, it was a huge hit on the R&B charts (and it made LW a bigger recording star in the 50's than Muddy was).
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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toddlgreene
827 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:16 AM
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Bob hit on a good point-Off the Wall, Juke and many others did a lot to showcase LW's sense of dynamics in his attack, and that's a big detail to take note of when listening and learning. He'd do some soft noodling higher up on the harp, then drop down and do those harder-hit sax-sounding riffs-THAT combination moreso than playing any tune note-for-note really jumps out and grabs me.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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krisalis
6 posts
Feb 17, 2010
12:25 PM
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This point about dynamics is spot on, it's why I think some of LW's recorded output is in a different league from the rest of my collection. I actually listen to 'Mellow Down Easy' a lot more than 'Juke' - the way he attacks that solo is just so intense ... i can't get tired of listening to it.
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isaacullah
733 posts
Feb 17, 2010
12:44 PM
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I understand about Juke being a chart topper and all, and I think it's a great song. I just don't think that using it, or any other one song, as a "bar" is a good idea at all. It encourages copycatism, and IMO can be more of a detriment to new players than a motivational goal.
Should new players concentrate on learning songs? Sure. For a while, it's really great. But after a while, there's a line between what pro's do when they cover a song (taking a tune and making it their own) and what many intermediates do (ie. just playing someone else's tune they way it was played by that person).
I'm not bagging on folks who do the latter, but that's just not what I, personally, am into anymore. And after a while I kind of got sick of listening to others do it too.
Juke, for example, is a great record. But it's a RECORD. I can listen to it any time I want. I don't need to learn to play it exactly that way, and I don't need to go out to a club so see someone else play it that way either. I just put the record on. On the other hand, I would certainly go out to a club to hear someone do what BBQBob wrote about doing when he played it with Jimmy Rogers....
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2010 12:46 PM
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Hollistonharper
169 posts
Feb 17, 2010
1:07 PM
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This thread has just about reached the point where someone makes the obligatory observation, "Well, I'd give my left nut to be able to play Juke just like Little Walter."
But it won't be me! To paraphrase Big Mama Thornton, I cain't post like the posters. I haveta post my way...." (smiley face goes here)
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phogi
261 posts
Feb 17, 2010
1:09 PM
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hmmm...I never tired it, aside from the opening lick. Maybe I will learn it.
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blueswannabe
32 posts
Feb 17, 2010
3:49 PM
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Holliston Harper, you got great timing.. To Isaacullah, "Copycatism" that is a sentiment I'v heard before and I have respectfully disagree and say "so what." I don't think it's a detriment for new players. It's part of the educational process. For the same reasons you learn Shakespeare in school-it sounds nice, it's worthy of study and it's part of a great education. So that's why I listen and study the classics, including blues. And by the way, when you no longer study them, they disappear and become lost, until nobody knows what Juke is. Also, when you study the classics they become a foundation for further creativity. I don't think Juke is a bar but its a great study song. And songs like that is what drew me in.
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gmacleod15
44 posts
Feb 17, 2010
4:36 PM
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Thanks for all the nice comments everyone. For me it is a personal “bar” in that it is just another song I like and want to learn.
@Rick Davis
I think your approach matches my way of playing and learning.
“I've never sat down and learned Juke note for note, even though my band includes it occasionally in our set list. As long as I get the first 8 bars and the turnarounds right, and hit the themes of the different verses, it's fine with me and people seem to like it a lot.”
@ littleeasy
I looked for the TEXAS SHUFFLE KEY OF E on UT but I wasn’t sure I had the right video. Maybe you could post the link here.
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MBH member since 2009-03-24
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DirtyDeck
18 posts
Feb 17, 2010
4:37 PM
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Gaaawd! I'll let you know when I'm finished!
Am stuck on this damn opening riff, trying to learn it tongue-blocking both sides and the two different octaves. Am probably not well enough grounded with the ongue-blocking to be trying this but fuck it! It'll be all the more satisfying in the end!
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harpwrench
165 posts
Feb 17, 2010
4:56 PM
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IMO it's not a 6-9 octave on the opening riff...to me it just sounds like harmonic distortion from the cranked up dirty little amp and a bullet on the edge of feedback.
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KingoBad
179 posts
Feb 17, 2010
7:10 PM
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I think you are missing the point if you think it is all about just copying Little Walter - or anyone for that matter. The idea of learning JUKE is about a level of achievement. It shows a certain mark of achievement for harp players. I think it benefits anyone to copy the masters of the instrument - exactly - inflections, dynamics, etc. It is not a matter of playing someone else's music (however prevalent in the history of the genre) but about mastering a language.
I would not attempt to write a dissertation on Anthropology after having taken one basic course. Sure, I may have learned plenty of terms, but I could not converse with any authority with anyone who new their stuff. Nor would I say that I am inventing a new anthropology that can ignore the tradition that came before.
Learning harmonica is in part, learning a new language. While there are virtuosos that can ignore the rules, I think it benefits everyone to learn their stuff from the best before foraging into the unknown.
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barbequebob
501 posts
Feb 17, 2010
7:16 PM
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Joe, I`ve done that both ways and from experience playing a JT30 with an exceptionally hot crystal into an early 50`s Les Paul amp, that`s exactly what I got, so I`m more inclined to agree with you.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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barbequebob
503 posts
Feb 17, 2010
7:33 PM
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The more important thing from learning how he did it really isn`t just about learning it note for note, but more to learn how a master thinks musically, such as why they chose to use the notes being used, their sense of dynamics, why certain notes have more emphasis, and to tie it all together, what was their concept, and once you understand that, you can give the feel of what they`re doing while still maintaining your own musical personality. In some ways, it`s more like a lesson in musical grammer.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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gmacleod15
45 posts
Feb 18, 2010
6:48 AM
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BBQ Bob
When you said
"Joe, I`ve done that both ways and from experience playing a JT30 with an exceptionally hot crystal into an early 50`s Les Paul amp, that`s exactly what I got, so I`m more inclined to agree with you.
"
where you referring to the Harpwrench's comment "IMO it's not a 6-9 octave on the opening riff...to me it just sounds like harmonic distortion from the cranked up dirty little amp and a bullet on the edge of feedback."
IMO the 6-9 octave doesn't sound right...at least when I do it.
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MBH member since 2009-03-24
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Bluzdude46
487 posts
Feb 18, 2010
6:53 AM
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What's Juke?
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The Original Downtown Philadelphia Fatman... Accept No substitutes!
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Kingley
866 posts
Feb 18, 2010
7:13 AM
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"that's a bold statement.
i think more folks would know recognize whammer jammer than juke."
Eharp - Not a bold statement at all.
I would agree that new players (less than 3 years) that have come to places like Adams lessons on YouTube (as an example) as their fist learning point, may be more familiar with Whammer Jammer than Juke.
Any harp player that has studied classic Chicago blues simply cannot avoid Juke. I would suspect that the majority of all blues harp players worldwide know of Juke.
I would venture to guess that the most long time blues harmonica players (people playing longer than 5 years) discovered Juke way before Whammer Jammer.
Magic Dick was relatively obscure to the wider harmonica world (outside the USA) until fairly recently (last 20 years). Little Walter has been known all over Europe and the Americas since the 1960's.
The fact also remains that Juke is the only blues harp instrumental to ever top the music charts.
All of these factors make it the most famous blues harmonica instrumental of all time.
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blogward
91 posts
Feb 18, 2010
7:22 AM
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Where 'Juke' and LW's playing generally transcends most everybody else's is that he maintains a musical narrative from beginning to end - he tells you a story. Most players struggle to get a sentence out.
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Kingley
868 posts
Feb 18, 2010
7:24 AM
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Blogward - Well stated. That is possibly one of the best descriptions I have ever heard of Walter playing.
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barbequebob
505 posts
Feb 18, 2010
7:33 AM
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@gmcloud15, yes and I actually have been able to do it both ways. The 6-9 thing works better when used with amps made after the late 50`s that were louder, but with amps made from the late 40`s to the early 50`s which were lower wattage and easier to push hard, harpwrench (Joe Spiers) is spot on and those circuits are far simpler than what`s presently available
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte.
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Joe_L
35 posts
Feb 19, 2010
9:26 PM
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Before the advent of the Internet, learning Juke properly was a measuring stick on whether a traditional style Blues player could play worth a crap. If you couldn't play Juke, most of the legendary Blues players wouldn't take you seriously. You may not like it, but that's the way it was.
The guitar player's equivalent tune was Freddie King's Hideaway.
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