phogi
256 posts
Feb 17, 2010
5:59 AM
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I've fallen in love with the manji comb. Why? For some mysterious reason, I don't get the build up of dead skin cells like I do on the marine bands and special 20's and Golden Melodies.
I seem to like the manji just fine, I think I'll buy more. I think I may be able to retro fit marine band plates to it, they seem about the same size.
Thoughts?
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Philosofy
335 posts
Feb 17, 2010
6:39 AM
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Its definitely a different kind of plastic (yeah, I know, they claim there's wood in there. But probably not much.) I'll have one of my customers in the plastics industry take a look and tell me what it is, but I have a feeling the Manji is PVC, while Golden Melodies, Lee Oskars, and Bushmans might be ABS.
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sorin
140 posts
Feb 17, 2010
6:47 AM
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phogi , what is wrong with the original plates?
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tookatooka
1234 posts
Feb 17, 2010
7:00 AM
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Yeah! I was going to ask sorins question. Don't you like the Manji tuning? Any possibility of retuning the old Manji plates to be like the MB. If not throw them my way if you don't want them :)
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phogi
257 posts
Feb 17, 2010
7:10 AM
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Oh, I like the manji plates fine, but I'm used to marine band plate. I like the marine band tuning better than the manji tuning. I could retune it, but my previous attempts at tuning have not gone so well.
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Iggy
11 posts
Feb 17, 2010
7:22 AM
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phogi, I also love the manji comb! What i'm reading on line is most wood/plastic composites are made with a 50-70% wood fiber binder. They use a wood flour mixed with plastic pellets made from recycled plastic bags and virgin plastic.
check out www.ircomas.org, click on IRAN COMPOSITES ASSOCIATION (URL), when the site pops up, click on Articles from the home page, it's the first article, (wood plastic composites). They give a great description of how it's made,and the various types.
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2010 8:17 AM
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baldyak
3 posts
Feb 17, 2010
8:59 AM
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I think I'm in the minority in that I kind of don't like the Manji's comb. I've got one in E and I think it sounds and plays great, but the comb feels like it has a little too much grip on my flesh and that it doesn't "wet up" like my other harps. Perhaps it's my technique or perhaps I just need to play it more (not sure why I got the E over Eb).
I don't have any unsealed wood combs to compare it to, but I really love the way the Seydel Solist Pro's sealed comb feels as well as the Crossover.
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jonsparrow
2319 posts
Feb 17, 2010
9:03 AM
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i too have thought about useing the manji comb for marine band plates. i like there comb allot too. its really soft. kinda feels like it has baby powder on it or something.
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toddlgreene
822 posts
Feb 17, 2010
9:11 AM
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The comb is made by an Iranian company? That's interesting. I don't think i've ever heard of a non-oil product from Iran in wide use.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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Iggy
12 posts
Feb 17, 2010
9:20 AM
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jon, MB's are my harp of choice also! I have a full set in major and minor keys. What i'm thinking of tying is replacing the combs with a wood/plastic composite like the Manji combs. Yes, your right! It does kinda have a baby powder feel to it, that's a good way to describe it.
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Iggy
13 posts
Feb 17, 2010
9:33 AM
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toddlgreen, I just posted that site so people could get a quick and dirty overview on wood/plastic composites. I don't know what manufacture produces the combs for the Manji company. Maybe Brendan can give us a heads up????!!!!!!.............
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jonsparrow
2320 posts
Feb 17, 2010
9:36 AM
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the combs are cool lookin too. looks like marble.
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Iggy
14 posts
Feb 17, 2010
10:15 AM
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Jon, Maybe you can help me with this? All the sites i find on wood/plastic composites(WPC) are geared toward the construction industry i.e patio decks and outdoor furniture park benches and such. All in all, what i've been finding the WPC"s used for such products use longer/larger wood fibers (which are very porous when viewed in cross section) unlike the WPC used for the manji, which is produced with a wood flour, more dense in make-up. can you help me find a manufacture that produces a WPC like the Manji company uses?
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toddlgreene
823 posts
Feb 17, 2010
10:23 AM
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Check dymondwood out, Iggy. a few customizers including Buddha utilize it for combs.
http://www.rutply.com/products/dymondwood.html
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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Iggy
15 posts
Feb 17, 2010
10:33 AM
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jon, I believe the marble look in the Manji combs are due to the way the wood fibers are aligned in some areas which have the lighter cloudy appearance, and in the darker areas, we are seeing the ends of the wood fibers with more resin seen around the fibers. This fiber/resin make-up gives this composite it's great strength(due to the fact that the fibers are suspended in all directions by the resin.
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barbequebob
484 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:04 AM
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The Manji comb won't fit MB plates and if you modify those combs for the plates, use caution. This comb and the polymer comb used on the 1847 Silver are probably the closest in feel to using a wood comb of all the plastic combs I've ever tried and most plastic combs wind up making me play with a wet mouth without playing hard.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Iggy
16 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:05 AM
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Yes, thank you toddlgreene, I mentioned about dymondwood in the thread by jon on his B-radical review. Dymondwood is a really cool product which is produced in many layers to increase it's strength, where in the Manji combs the strength is achieved by the way the wood fibers are aligned and suspended in the resin. jon posted above about the cool marble appearance, WPC"S which are produced with wood flour vs. longer/larger wood fibers get that marbled look.
toddlgreen, can you join in on the search for a manufacture that produces a WPC such as in the Manji combs?!.......... I looked into dymondwood which i will try, although, i really would like to look into a WPC like Manji company uses for their combs! although, all I'm finding is manufactures that are producing mainly for the construction industry which use the longer/larger more porous WPC.
HELP!........
Your Thoughts are welcome!
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toddlgreene
826 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:12 AM
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http://www.thomasnet.com/nsearch.html?cov=NA&what=Composites%3A+Plastic&heading=16744708
The above link is to a seach result from the Thomas Registry. I don't have time to 'comb' thru them(pun intended), but you might find some useful info there, Iggy. You're obviously a man on a mission!
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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Iggy
18 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:20 AM
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barbequebob, I'm looking to manufacture my own combs for my MB harps out of wood/plastic composite(WPC) stock like the WPC which the Manji company uses. Although i'm having trouble finding a manufacture that produces such a WPC.
Would you also like to join in the search and give us all on this forum a heads-up?
Thank you all!
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Iggy
19 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:24 AM
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Thank You toddlgreene!, I'll check that site out.
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nacoran
1153 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:26 AM
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I like the aluminum comb on the Seydel Blues Favorite. I also have one of Dave Payne's chestnut combs. It's awesome. I wouldn't have thought it, but just having the ends of the tines rounded off really makes a huge difference. I'm debating taking apart some of my Blues Harps and trying to smooth them down. There are some neat colored plastic combs out there.
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Iggy
20 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:41 AM
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toddlgreene, Yes i've seen that site in my Quest. When wood/plastic composite is typed in their search box, hundreds of sites pop up! OH MY GOD!....... THE SEARCH CONTINUES!..........
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Iggy
21 posts
Feb 17, 2010
11:49 AM
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Do you think Brendan would give us here at MBH heads-up on the manufacture for the Mamji combs?! Maybe wishful thinking! Although, worth a try!
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isaacullah
734 posts
Feb 17, 2010
1:00 PM
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Iggy, something I've often thought of doing is using a non-toxic casting resin to make combs out of. You can get it in modest quantities (prob enough to make combs for a full12 harp set) from any hobby store (like Michael's here in the states) for around $20. My idea would be to make a mould of a marine band comb (keep in mind you'll need to make one mould for harps D and higher,a and another for harps C and lower) using a liquid silicone moudling compound (also available at the craft store), and let it set up. Then you would just mix up the two parts of the casting resin, pour it in the mould, vibrate it a little to release all the air bubbles, and let it set up. I imagine you could add a modest amount of fine sawdust to the resin mixture too to add a bit of woody texture to it. I'd imagine that the resin would have pretty good acoustic properties, and it'll definitely be water proof. You'd have to flat sand it and drill out all your holes as you would with a wood comb.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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HarpNinja
169 posts
Feb 17, 2010
1:03 PM
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Buddha makes some sweet MB combs!
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Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
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Iggy
22 posts
Feb 17, 2010
1:19 PM
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Yes, HarpNinja, your right, Buddha's custom combs are very sweet! they are a little thicker, and he uses the wood/plastic composite (WPC) called Dymondwood, or a WPC like dymondwood, which is produced in many layers to give it it's strength. Although, I'm looking for the WPC, or something like it that the Manji company uses for their combs. I like the look/feel of the WPC Manji uses.
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oldwailer
1072 posts
Feb 17, 2010
1:27 PM
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@Isaac; be sure you get real casting resin for a comb. I used some two-part stuff that was for finishing counter-tops for my first try on casting combs. It makes a great comb--but it goes all soft and kind of gooey when you try to sand it into final shape--you have to keep stopping--dip it in cold water--then sand a little more. I don't know if they would hold up over time--especially in a hot car in the summer.
If you just make a mold of a MB comb in a key lower than D--you'll get the long slot variety--and for higher key harps, all you do is sand about 1/8 inch of material off the top to make it a short slot. Of course, you have to have extra material on the butt of the comb too. To make my mold, I just made an over-sized comb on my mill and made a rubber mold it.
With the over-sized comb--it will also work on Blues Harps and Special 20's--which are the only harps I've tried so far. You just need to have a belt sander to shape them down after you get the plates installed.
I also made the mold a bit thicker, to allow for flat-sanding without getting too thin.
I have a new casting resin that I'm going to try--but I'll let you know how it works when I know--if you're interested.
I have one F MB that I cast the comb for--I accidently made it thicker on the bottom than on the top--kind of wedge shaped--because of the instability of the material. It plays really well, and I'm thinking about trying a couple more with the same shape--it seems to allow the nice thin mouthpiece of a MB while making the chamber larger--might actually improve the sound. It pisses me off though, because that thicker butt end makes it impossible to get into my rack. . .
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Iggy
23 posts
Feb 17, 2010
1:27 PM
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isaacullah, that's what i might end up doing(Thank You for the idea!) if i can't find a supplier of WPC stock, the type that the Manji company uses.
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barbequebob
496 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:06 PM
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I'm personally not fond of aluminum combs because they do tend to corrode and there's too much emphasis on the highs and a better, more balanced metal for a comb of any that I've tried is titanium.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Iggy
24 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:10 PM
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isaacullah/oldwailer, what can't be reproduced at home is it best inherit qualities, it's strength!, which is achieved by heat and pressure, injected to the desired shape, and milled to it's fished form. The liquid resins just don't have the same properties of plastics, which are stable compounds which are melted down at low temps, around 200 degrees so it does not degrade the wood flour fibers. When cooled it's a very strong and stable material by the processes of heat and pressure that binds the plastic and wood fibers.
In short, with liquid resins, at least the type at hobby stores are hard to work with in their final state as oldwailer points out.
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Aussiesucker
555 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:13 PM
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Mmmmm? Maybe the Manji comb is produced using a combination of used & recycled condoms & toothpicks?
Check this out:-
http://inventorspot.com/articles/china_takes_importance_recycling_8597
If other items for the hair can be produced then why not a comb?
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barbequebob
499 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:16 PM
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That's almost too much information!! lol
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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toddlgreene
834 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:16 PM
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oh man... Aussie, that's just nasty. Haha...I will remember that article the next time someone complains of a comb that doesn't taste good...perhaps it has a 'wang' to it. Ew.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2010 2:17 PM
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Bluzdude46
486 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:19 PM
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Again, I'm with Mike I like Buddhas combs
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The Original Downtown Philadelphia Fatman... Accept No substitutes!
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Ryan
157 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:30 PM
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Oldwailer, can you post some pictures of the molded comb you made? I'd be interested to see how it turned out. It sounds like it might be a cool project for me to try, and hopefully I wouldn't screw it up too badly.
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Iggy
25 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:44 PM
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Aussiesucker, THAT'S JUST WRONG! EWWW!!!
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Aussiesucker
556 posts
Feb 17, 2010
3:00 PM
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Of course its wrong I have a Manji & another on order!
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isaacullah
736 posts
Feb 17, 2010
4:31 PM
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Yeah Ray, let me know what you use and if it ends up working out. I wondered about that craft store resin, and it's good to know that there are issues with it. Too bad I don't live in California anymore, I'd just go down to a surf board fabricator and ask what type of stuff they use... It's some sort of easily sandable resin that they apply (over a fiberglass mesh) to make surf boards...
Yes, Buddha's combs are really great, and he makes them on his own milling machine. I'm pretty sure he can make you a comb out of pretty much anything you want.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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nacoran
1155 posts
Feb 17, 2010
5:17 PM
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Does anyone make their own covers?
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Brendan Power
4 posts
Feb 17, 2010
10:14 PM
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Some interesting speculation here on what goes into a Manji comb!... Just to clarify, the Manji comb is not made by a third party. It was designed by Suzuki's R&D department and is manufactured in the company's own plastics factory in Hamamatsu, located about 15 minutes drive from the harmonica factory.
It's a resin/wood composite and contains more than 50% wood fibres.
At 4:03 in this video you can see a cross-section of the comb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOHJZr0-Qoc.
It's got a firm outside layer and a softer inside. Suzuki found this gave the best resonance characteristics. More photos/info in the brochure:
http://www.harmonica-online.com/media/catalogue_data/M-20%20Manji%20Brochure.pdf
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congaron
536 posts
Feb 18, 2010
9:36 AM
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"It's got a firm outside layer and a softer inside."
So it's a tootsie pop, milled to shape then.
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Iggy
26 posts
Feb 18, 2010
6:12 PM
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Thank you Brendan! Your post clarifies any and all questions about the Manji comb material and who produces it. Thank you for keeping in touch! You and the Suzuki Corporation do what many others do not! Listen to the people who purchase your product!
Many harmonica enthusiast on this form like/love the Manji harmonica for many different reasons, while others do not like it at all.
What you will always find on this site, is Harmonica players going through the trial and tribulations with their instrument, and their craft.
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Philosofy
337 posts
Feb 18, 2010
6:29 PM
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Oldwailer, you probably sanded the comb before it was fully cured. That can take up to a month.
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oldwailer
1074 posts
Feb 18, 2010
10:52 PM
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@Ryan, here are some pics of the harp I made with a comb of casting resin--not really much to look at--the one with the mold shows how much bigger the mold is than the final product--this makes it easy to use the same mold for many different harps. . .
@Philosofy--I probably did sand the comb for this one too soon--the materials said to wait for 24 hours--which I did. However, I just checked another comb made with the same stuff about two months ago--still pretty gooshy.
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