In hindsight,I should have started another thread. So Adam,why Wolf? For the top 10 list,influence weighs heavily as a criteria.That's the only thing I find lacking in choosing Wolf. Don't get me wrong,I love the Wolf. And if you took away his harp playing,he'd still be great. So I'm not disputing your choice so much as to ask why him? I look at the second 10 and think maybe Jimmy Reed could move up,but it's not an easy choice. It's just when I hear Wolf mentioned, I don't immediately think harmonica.
These are stupid threads. Either you appreciate the man's contribution to music or you don't. Guys like Muddy Waters, Jimmy Reed and Wolf were an influence on popular music of the 60's. Their music is the foundation for everything that has come since.
That includes their harmonica playing. Listen to more of the music and what it spawned. Think of it as a history lesson.
If you find that style lacking, try to emulate it. Note for note. Tone for tone. Match each dynamic nuance.
I don't think this is a stupid thread at all. Not being a blues/harmonica historian on the level of a kudzurunner, I learn a shit load by reading threads where he is a heavy participant. He's walked the walk..and now he's talking the talk. I feel like an undergraduate student with a quadruple major: Harmonica, Music, The Blues and 20th Century American History.
Rock on AG.
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2010 8:32 AM
Joe L-I guess you didn't read my post carefully. It has nothing to do with his contribution to popular music,but his contribution to blues harmonica. I'm asking a great harp player AND blues historian why him and not someone else. I'm trying to learn something here.
I beg to differ. These end result of these threads is that people tear down the accomplishments of one person in hopes of elevating another.
Howlin' Wolf's music made a dramatic impact on musical history. He may not have been the greatest harmonica player, but the harmonica (like the guitar) was simply a tool in his hands.
Without Howlin' Wolf, there would have been no Rolling Stones. It's obvious that Howlin' Wolf may not have been the "greatest" harmonica player in the world, but his "rudimentary" stylings continue to influence generations of musicians.
One of the things that these forums bring to the table is an exposure to music that you may not have heard before. It's incumbent upon the individual to do some digging. If the entire exposure to a person's musical catalog is a youtube video near the end of one's career or sitting listening to snippets of recordings on amazon.com, that individual is clearly missing the impact of that artist. That work should also be placed into historical perspective.
People are quick to trash the Wolf's body of work without understanding the impact the guy had. That's ignorance.
If one doesn't understand the contribution each person on a person's Top 10 list, it's incumbent on that person to do a little listening and understand the criteria of measure before tearing it apart. It's common courtesy.
My comment wasn't directed at Mr Gussow, but the legions of people with opinions that didn't read the original post, nor the criteria.
Obviously you didn't read my OP or you wouldn't be saying this stuff. Besides,you're preaching to the choir.Top 10 "best" lists are certainly subjective and I have a problem with saying who is best. However,you can narrow it a bit by saying "most influential".Even that is subjective. All I want to know is why Adam chose Wolf for his list over someone else.
I have over 100 blues harmonica CD's, including several by Howlin' Wolf.
I think he stinks. His singing is so annoying, I have to turn him off after a short while. His harmonica playing is just average. His contributions to the blues harmonica world are marginal.
Since this is a Howlin' Wolf thread I will not try to elevate another player at Wolf's expense.
This is "my opionion". I guess I'm "ignorant" as well.
---------- www.Youtube.com/Jaybird33066
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2010 9:34 AM
The Wolf had charisma, confidence and style, plain and simple. So what if he wasn't the greatest harmonica player ever? I'd listen to him read the phone book!
Moanin' at Midnight is one of the all time greatest sides in the history of recorded music. If anyone else chooses to defame the honorable name of Howlin' Wolf I shall have to challenge you to meet me upon the field of honor.
I love the Wolf's playing. His phrasing was minimalistic but powerful and distinctive, and his vibrato was incredible.
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2010 10:18 AM
Heres the man doin' "smokestack". His vocal wail from 1:30-1:40 is absolutely otherwordly. I don't know about top ten harp, but this dude is just filthy with charisma and the it factor. Nasty stuff....nasty stuff.
One thing to add is that without Howlin' Wolf, there's no JIm Morrison because he basically stole Wolf's stage act, tho he did Wolf one better by masturbating on the bandstand with the real thin g, as Wolf often did that with the mike at crotch level.
There are two things quite distinctive about Wolf's playing: his tone and his slow vibrato and very few players get either one down particularly well.
If all you listen to are guys that are riffing non stop, than anyone playing very few notes is not gonna be your bag and groove falls very low on your totem pole.
There are tons of players who "think" they can do his stuff easily, but often can't. I've seen him several different times live and he is also a classic example of great tone without needing gear because he always played thru the PA. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2010 10:49 AM
One of my favorite guys is Howlin' Wolf. Now, Bob, I know what you are speaking of, the Miami incident back in 1969. Jim was wasted and went a little too far and became a little lewd, more than a little actually. I've listened to the show, it's outrageous.
Howlin’ Wolf Talks #1---The Chess Box (Disc 1) (His words on where he learned Harp) I love Wolf! I wish I had a the head the size of a small refrigerator on top of a 300 lb frame.Bet I'd Have some tone.
Howlin' Wolf is one of my all time favourite performers. It's not just the music it's about everything the guy stood for.
The Chess brothers ripped off most of their guys, Muddy included, but never got away with it with the Wolf. He was all business, shrewd and smart. Where Muddy was quite happy to sit in a corner getting drunk while his band played tirelessly and only get up to perform a few numbers because he was the great Muddy Waters, Wolf believed in giving it his all from start to finish of every number at every gig.
He respected musicians who new theory so much that at around age 40 (I think) paid for college tuition on theory so that he could in turn pass what he learned onto his band members.
He wouldn't stand for anyone getting drunk before showtime, because he despised unprofessional attitudes and made it mandatory for the whole band to adhere to certain dress codes.
He also was the only blues guy around at the time who organised and paid for insurance for every band member so if they couldn't perform they'd still get paid.
If I recall correctly it was Wolf who paid for Little Walter's headstone too.
The guy was an amazing character. A one-of-a-kind. Although his harp was basic his tone was awesome and exactly what was needed for his music. Fast and flashy would've tarnished his sound.
For anyone who wants to read an amazing book go and buy Moanin' at Midnight: The Life and Times of Howlin' Wolf by James Segrest and Mark Hoffman.
It's a hell of a story. ---------- "You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
All of these lists are silly. Its a nonsensical argument about who you think...i think. But i suppose thats why they were started in the first place when things get slow here. Way way too much subjectivity. Listen more. Talk less.
My, how the legend grows. (No pun intended.)Jim certainly did not masturbate. He was accused of exposing himself, but not a single witness said they saw it. Jim really didn't remember if he expoded himself or not.
jim morrison is the man. he also did a cover of back door man. though it sounds nothing like wolfs version. an plenty of musicians have masterbated on stage. ----------
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2010 4:01 PM
On a serious note. Howlin' Wolf is one of my favorites. His stage presence is so massive. His style distinctive, and whether he is #1 or #7 is no difference. Numbered ratings are subjective at best.
Gene, there is some pictures where provokes the crowd but that is it. The ONLY people who claimed he exposed himself was a cop who was there and the cops son, I believe.
I think these lists serve a few purposes that people are ignoring. Lets face it, no one can listen to every blues album ever put out. We can sample from lists of other people's favorites. It's a good way to get exposed to new music. The other thing is it helps you get to know other people's musical tastes. It's like a movie critic, you may not agree with a particular one, but you may learn to listen to what they are saying and base your judgement on how well you agree with them. There are people on this forum who post clips I don't care for. There are other people who post clips I'm almost sure to like. A list of songs by someone with the same tastes as you is awesome, not because it matters which one is best, but I can't think of any better way to find music I'll like.
As for Wolf, he's not my cup of tea. Actually, I don't think it's him, I don't like the way they are using the keyboards behind him. I'm not a big fan of plinky sounding piano.
And Joel, I'd like to ask you, what purpose does it serve to say lists are stupid? You seem to be taking them awfully personally. If you don't like list threads don't read them. Different strokes for different folks.
Funny how somebody accuses someone of taking something personal and then proceeds to write a thesis on just that. I dont read lists of peoples favorite music, the top ten, twenty..players etc. nor do i care for critics opinions of music,movies, food etc.Ive played for 35 years.If there is one in the bar or a thousand ill try to put on the best show i can .My music aint their music.(main stream). Im sixty years old.I dont care about others lists.This genre of music already has it tough enough.money wise. I already know who influenced who,what i think sounds good and what i like.but i dont make a list.I saw Wolf live and Muddy with James Cotton. I had the pleasure of playing with B.B.. Sam Myers was a close friend. Fingers Taylor and i shared a house for a couple of years.What im saying is if it really matters to some(go ahead on then)to others it just not that important. And i have that right to rant also.
All I can say is, that Gussow guy is a fucking genius. Somehow he managed to create a website and a forum where a bunch of real harp guys sit around and talk like real harp guys, instead if like Harp Guys Lite. He's a fucking genius!
Seriously: I'm happy for the conversation, friends. All that's missing is a big pitcher of cold beer and a bunch of mugs.
I thank Tuckster for the thread, BBQ Bob for saying what needed to be said, and Delta Dirt for also saying what needed to be said.
nacoran - if a person is going to learn about the history of Blues or Rock and Roll, the presence of Howlin' Wolf can't be missed. Read any book on Blues history and most of the guys in Adam Gussow's Top Ten will be represented.
Top ten lists don't discuss more obscure players. They tend to mention the cream of the crop and the most influential.
So here's the deal: Howlin' Wolf is absolutely central to the blues tradition as a whole. The question for this website and this forum is: is he absolutely central to the blues HARMONICA tradition? That's an entirely different question. I think he is, but I also think that the case that needs to be made for him is very different from the case that needs to be made for Little Walter or Sonny Boy Williamson. I think BBQ made a good case for him. But the case is NOT about whether he was a magnetic performer or an incredible vocal stylist. He indisputably was both of those things.
The question is whether, purely considered as a blues harmonica player, he was somebody who is absolutely central to the tradition.
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2010 8:10 PM
He wasn't the greatest guitar player in comparison with guys like Hubert Sumlin, Louis Myers or Robert Jr, but he recorded some tremendous recordings while playing guitar, too.
Just because a person isn't a fabulous technician on an instrument doesn't mean they can't make a powerful contribution to music. Bob Dylan is a perfect example. He's not a fabulous harmonica player, but you can't deny he has made a powerful mark on the legacy of the instrument.
If Howlin' Wolf had never played harp I don't think there would be a noticeable difference in the blues harp world. I just don't see an identifiable style in his playing. If there is one then perhaps Adam, you could make a youtube video about his style so people like me could pick up on it (perhaps you already have and I missed it?). ---------- Ozark Rich
I absolutely love the Wolf, one of my all time favorite performers, top 3 for me, but I think Tuckster raises a valid point.
As far as his harmonica goes, look at the top 20, really if he stood toe to toe with any of them, his playing would be the most simplistic of them all I think. In a technical sense and bag of tricks sense I think he would be blown away. On most songs he plays on his riffs are pretty basic and pretty similar to each other. I dont think his style has really heavily influenced other players that I can notice. I believe he learnt to play of Sonny Boy II( edit: I see this was mentioned on the other thread now), who was married to his sister maybe.
Having said that, (IMO) his tone is superb, one of the best. His vibrato is superb, one of the best. Also, like his singing his timing is superb.
For me, he gets the benefit of the doubt, and stays on the list, but I'm a bit biased.
The thing with Howlin' Wolf is his style is deceptively simple.
When you attempt to recreate it though, you always fall short. I have never heard anyone (including top pro players) who can play Wolf's harp lines to the same competency that people can play Sonny Terry, Little Walter, Big Walter, etc. No one has managed to capture that rawness and depth of emotion in his playing yet, when covering one of his songs.
Howlin' Wolf is a true icon of blues music and influenced many people in the 1960's. Who in turn have influenced many. many others.
Whether or not his harp playing is influential or not is always going to be subjective. But as a musician, bandleader, songwriter and a man his influence is undeniable.
I think his harp playing is very much like his singing. POWER & RAW EMOTION. I loved the term Adam used about Nat Riddles...he played with 'power in reserve', except the Wolf doesnt reserve it, he puts everything hes got into it. Hes a big powerful man, not to be messed with, and that comes through in his singing and playing.
Massive influence in the blues, maybe second only to Muddy, but I'm not sure on harp alone.
Distinctive and authentic blues style, true depth of artistic expression, intense emotion and flawless technical execution in his playing. Prolific recorded output and enormously influential. How can this guy NOT be in the top ten???
I'll just mention his association with Sonny Boy Williamson II (Rice Miller). I read this somewhere, else, I think, but it is repeated here:
"Sometime in the 1930's [SBII] married Howlin' Wolf's half sister Mae and taught Wolf the rudiments of the harmonica. Wolf can be seen in the 1966 Newport 'Juke Joint' home movies imitating Sonny Boy by playing the harmonica hands-free..."
In my pre-harp days, I did not particularly care for Wolf's huge, raw sound, but now I like it. The man could make the harmonica speak volumes with a few simple phrases. And could drive the groove with it, e.g. "Moaning at Midnight". He was a great player.
Last Edited by on Mar 05, 2010 1:05 PM
The ability to say more with fewer notes can never be over emphasized. I see tons of players that border on the harmonica version of the guitar shredders with no underlying sense of groove, no dynamics, little use of space that it too often sounds like bad musicial grammer playing like a musical version of a run on sentence and it can bore me to death. The ability to say more with fewer notes in many different musical situations, and not just in blues, cannot be overstated. Wolf was definitely one who could say more with fewer notes, but getting the timing, understanding the groove and dynamics is important and too often badly overlooked. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Mar 05, 2010 11:07 AM
Joel- But what's the solution. Sure, top ten lists will tend to discuss the cream of the crop, but any list you are going to make has to stop somewhere. Think of top ten lists as the survey courses, not the in depth 400 level course.
I can't say I've listened to enough Wolf to say comment in great detail on his style, but the backing band on what I have heard just seems a little too sonically cluttered for my tastes. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate the talent. I'm not a fan of Mozart either, but I'm not going to argue he wasn't brilliant. (I'm more of a Bach fan.)
That's the great thing about lists though. They get people talking.
