Learning to play any instrument well is not necessarily about being "musically gifted" or even being talented. Much of instrumental technique centers around being very creative and persistent with solving the problem in kinesthesiology that arise during the course of learning an instrument. If these aren't solved then a barrier can arise, preventing one from reaching a new level of playing technique. So what are some techniques to solve the kinesthetic problems that arise? Well, it depends on each individuals person method of problem solving of course, and you will have to compose your own methods, but I hope this thread can be kinda a compilation of different practice techniques that can help those who needs ideas to practice for efficiently and get more effective results.
1st: don't focus on the amount of time practiced when practicing.
2nd: practice slow. Speed will come. If you don't have the note in your mind before you play it, or you don't have enough time to think before playing it, you are going to fast.
3rd: the key to excellence and progressive accumulation of skill is MINDFUL repetition. Don't simply repeat something until it has been memorized. Play it, evaluate your mouth position, the tone, the areas of tension, how much breath force you are using, etc. And make small adjustments each time. Do NOT just repeat something ten times in a row and say "good enough". Evaluate for more efficient ways of playing what you are playing and experiment by making tiny adjustments.
4th: Break difficult parts into smaller segments and practice those slowly. Work on making movement as minimal as possible.
5th: If your mind is wandering, STOP playing and do something else. You are not only not improving but can be creating bad habits that unravel all your hard work to improve.
6th: Don't be in a rush to get good. This is why I can't stand the classical music world, or music colleges specifically. Often they want to rush through a barrage of material and hope you catch onto it, instead of fostering mindful practice and skill acquisition.
This is just the surface stuff. Hopefully others have some more tips. Hope this helps!
MAL, I like these ideas. I've been working on practicing playing slower, like you mentioned. Playing slower seems to help me not get ahead of myself, staying "in the moment". My other ideas at the moment are taking personal stock and trying to tackle my weaknesses, rather than avoid them. (Working on lip-pursing right now during each session)
Thanks for the input.
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2010 5:31 PM
Thanks for the input, some great things to think about. The only one I didn't like to hear was number 6, I'm an old fart who picked up the harmonica later on in life. Time is not on my side
Yea I can remember a story on Sonny Boy Williamson stressing the importance of kinesthesiology, and rye whiskey when practicing and visualizing. ----------
The Original Downtown Philadelphia Fatman... Accept No substitutes!
Some good points. Especially nr.3. Evalute your playing. I think this is the key to efficient/structured practice.
I'd have one more point to add: Think harmonica. I.e. also when you're not playing... think the tabs when you have a melody in mind. Think the techniques (attack, vibrato, bend). Visualize the overblow...
EDIT: I hadn't realized that Bluzdude had just mentioned the same point...
Another thing, which is often mentioned, and I think is pretty useful. Record your playing from time to time.... Go HPC4 ;).
---------- germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Last Edited by on Mar 05, 2010 7:34 AM
"Thanks for the input, some great things to think about. The only one I didn't like to hear was number 6, I'm an old fart who picked up the harmonica later on in life. Time is not on my side"
@ Honkin on bobo
The irony is that if you let go of the anxiety and tension of any results from practicing and simply FOCUS on the process of practicing, you WILL get good FAST. But wanting to get good quickly may be the only thing standing in your way of actually improving. Just something to think about...
Good thread. I like to start acoustic. I try to practice everything technical thing i can think of and all the old standby blues riffs and licks i know, turnarounds etc. I vary my tone as much as I can with cupping and without. I may play into my PA to help myself hear back and i may use backing tracks or I may not. Then I amp up. I do the same thing over again, not necessarily in that order. I vary my tone, vary my speed, vary my vibrato and use all the different kinds of vibrato i know. I do everything I know how, try a few things I've heard and want to work on, then play with effect settings to see if anything can be tweaked since last time. This last step doesn't usually yield much, but it keeps me playing a little longer and I often find myself doing chromatic runs over and over to compare the effects. I need work on these so it helps me stay with it. I also try some slow stuff...very slow.
So, in a nutshell...I try to do all the technical/mechanical stuff I know every time, if time permits. Sqeezing everything I know how to do into the available time automatically makes me play faster as the number of things grows. I also do some work on speed with my most familiar licks, but speed seems to be increasing as needed with my band. I also try to get a little better at something new.
When time is limited, I often just slap on Blues XM satellite and play with that for awhile.
Last Edited by on Mar 05, 2010 9:34 AM
Have specific goals in mind when you practice. E.g. I'm working on tongue-block techniques, so right now getting a nice 2-draw bend is on my list. I keep that in mind as I practice, trying to make each of those as good as possible (and experimenting with the kinesthetics), and playing tunes and licks that emphasize that note.
Be patient and persistent. I don't spend a whole session just practicing the TB 2d bend, but I keep it on the agenda for some effort EVERY practice, for months. And once it starts sounding good, like it is starting to now, I keep working it to see if I can get it even better, and to groove what I'm getting right.
The older I get, the more I realize there are no set rules. What I am learning is to follow what amuses your soul. That will lead you to everything you need to learn and to the people/way to teach it. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
"The older I get, the more I realize there are no set rules. What I am learning is to follow what amuses your soul. That will lead you to everything you need to learn and to the people/way to teach it. Walter"
This made me think, Many people get turned off to music by elitist attitudes that are essentially the opposite of this statement. Some give it up as "too hard" early in life because they can never please a teacher that won't come down to their level and teach them from where they need to be taught.
I taught and flight examined Air Force aviators of many different experience levels for many years. I know my perspective on teaching really widened when i tackled Special needs adults in Sunday School. The learning takes place in their hearts and minds when My heart and mind teaches them at the appropriate level...everyone is different.
"The older I get, the more I realize there are no set rules. What I am learning is to follow what amuses your soul. That will lead you to everything you need to learn and to the people/way to teach it. Walter"
This is some of the best free advice out there. When something that is supposed to be fun is no longer fun, it's best to move onto something different.
One thing I would suggest. Buy a cheap recorder like a Zoom H2. Record, listen and repeat. Do the stuff that sounds good and less of the stuff that doesn't sound good. It'll allow you not only to hit the right notes, but to use the appropriate hand techniques to develop an interesting sense of dynamics and tone.
The importance of listening can't be understated. If you develop your ability to listen, it'll make things easier to break down and you'll get to a point where you can play, if you can hear it.
Another thing that is also helpful is to have technology that will allow you to zero in on a run or a riff and slow it down. Back in the day, it was manually moving an arm on a record player, now you can do something similar with a CD or MP3 player.
Creating a playlist on an MP3 player of tunes to work on can be helpful, too.
If someone or something makes you want to quit, block it out. For it is better to lose that one thing than for your whole harmonica to be tossed into the fire.
Great advice Walter and others that have added! I think it's very important to keep it interesting and fresh. Just as an add on, many people take following your soul and "going with the flow" as simply not caring about technique. I think that is inaccurate because I know what amuses my soul and pleases my heart is employing discipline to play what I feel and hear in my head. It doesn't mean "don't care about technique" or "be sloppy", it just means have passion behind what you are practicing. Don't put the means before the end. Also, as bad as it sounds, alcohol DOES help me practice better and playing at night when I'm dead tired helps to cause I'm more relaxed. Of course, the drinking must be in moderation to have SOME discipline, but sometimes getting a little off edge and playing naturally without thought is a lesson in itself.
i guess i dont really practice. i just doodle around, flit back and forth over various riffs, techniques, songs... maybe it is time to put some focus into the time. thanks. (tooka- i was getting ready to look it up.)
I remembered my brother and his battle with the piano teacher. He was pretty far ahead of the rest at a very early age and she swooped in on him like a Nun in a classroom demanding perfection in a very uncool way. Pretty much wanted him to do it perfectly the first time, because he did that in the first few lessons. As they got harder, she kind of used that as a weapon that eventually destroyed his enjoyment of the instrument. As an adult, he plays again but i shudder to think how good he'd be if the teacher had taught him at his level of learning.
I agree! Following the soul means not being sloppy, lazy, getting stoned and generally taking your instrument not seriously. When I am driven to do something I need to learn it right. I went via living with Louisiana Red, hanging with sonny terry, and playing with lots of the old bluesmen. They never gave a lesson like we see today. They simplely let you hang around with them because they felt your passion to want to get there. Their presence was the teaching. That is what works for me as a learner. Sit me down, show me physically how to play something and it just doesn't sink in. We all learn in different ways. Most learn via concrete, explicit means. That is why most teaching is done this way, but it misses people who learn like I do. I too need lots of repitition, but it has to come via inspiration. I wanted to be able to express myself with music and since the first time I tried playing I did. Did it sound technically correct? No way. It was noise, but that noise inspired me and made me feel good so I kept doing it. When I try to sit down and learn something- aka have an agenda, it becomes uninspiring. This is why I learn via discovery. I played for 5-15 hours a day for at least 10 years and it was all joyus expression with no agenda. I am not sure I am getting my point accross. The written word stinks for me compared to sitting in the flesh with you. I can give this example. Last night I hit on these 2 songs(actually one I have pulled a couple pieces out of). It was the first time I have done such a thing. I see it as jazzy and it amused my soul so much I ended up playing/recording this one song for over an hour. When the joy stopped, I stopped. If I was playing a major festival or at home, I would do the same thing. The raw beginings are usually the most exciting. Once you get something down pat, it gets boring unless you keep adding on via letting things unfold spontaneously. It would be easy to be a standard blues player with classic lick. It would also be easy to be solely a harp player with much more socially accepted in the blues community chops, but I would lose interest. Instead I take joy out of being a player that has skills, but is continually going to new ground as it arises. Doing the 1 man band, harp on a rack and imagining it is in my hands, are such challenges. Do others hear this new ground? I doubt it, but I sure do and as long as it keeps coming, I will be following it like a little kid follows their heart. If anything I often get harp players suggesting I get a real band behind me to showcase my harp in a better way because I could hold it and just play and sing. that would make me sound better from what most players call better, but I would not be inspired. I would rather sound "bad" and feel good! Walter
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8843696 ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
great post how about using the metronome and the blues scale and the country blues scale up and down and all over and in between.taping yourself really lets you know where your at .i also agree know your harmonica where the notes are .
Maybe not a technic, but trying to learn a song, perhaps Adam's Front Porch Blues or Stand By Me or whatever, helps not only with learning a song, but also helps with picking up various technics and, perhaps even more important, it forces you to listen..I mean REALLY listen. Not just to all the notes that are being played, but the shaping and shading of each note. As a bonus you'll learn to listen to the other instruments that accompany the song... I'm finding a lot of benefit in trying to play other's people's music.... ---------- DutchBones Tube
i have this thing in my head that,at my age(71)there isn't much point to practice when all i want to do is play. as i've said before,i play chromatic where all the notes are there,so i keep copping out and going back to chrom instead of staying and practice the diatonic. i have spent many,many hours trying to get just one overblow,just one miserable overblow. i can't think of anything else in my life where so much time and effort has resulted in so much failure. so to play something with all the notes,i go back to chrom,which is defeatind the object of the excercize. which brings me back to this thing about my age,and is it worth it. of course it is worth it.i know that.success is built on failure. i know about all the machanics of overblowing but no success at all. anyway,one of these days,one of these little buggers will pop out,then it will have all been worth it. i should practice,but i just love to play,thats my problem,but i've been encouraged by this thread,so,my thanks to you all.
"This last part is the toughest to accept because it means that if you aren’t top notch in your field there are only three possible reasons - You picked a field you had no passion for and it was just ‘too much work’. You never tried to improve yourself or did it half heartedly. You haven’t yet put in the requisite hours of deliberate focus and improving. The whole concept that you are the person responsible for whats going on with your life is not as convenient as placing responsibility elsewhere. Regardless of where you stand on this, you have to admit that the biggest stumbling block for most people is realizing that they can do big things."
MichaelAndrewLo: That sums it all up! I have always said talent is nothing more than various degrees of passion. Many people tell you they are so passionate about things, and lets use the harp becacuse this is a harp forum. Lots of folks will say how passionate they are about the harp, yet at the same time state how they wished they had the talent of so and so. There are various degree of talent because there are various degrees of passion. People that claim they have the passion but not the talent haven't got enough passion to devote the time and events that will get them to the level they claim their lack of talent keeps them from attaining. Are you willing to forgo everything you own and love to get there? Are you willing to lose your home if you have one, job, spouse, friends, area you live in,and blindly follow that passion to wherever it may lead you? Well, the ones that these people claim have talent that is far superior to thiers have done these things. Their live is defined by their drive/passion/talent (all the same thing). I did all these things for 30 years and even now that I work a regular job, still put in 30-50 hours a week playing. I am driven to do this. There is no choice. I play my own way because it feels good. That is talent/passion/drive. My wife of 30 years and people that know me say I am eccentric. I see myself as normal and happy as heck to have things that drive me to blindly follow them. I would be lost without them.
Passion is something we can't control and still have all the other worldly things in life we like that conflict with it. We are passionte/talented/driven on our unique journey if we allow it to unfold. This is where joy comes from and the more you stop trying to control it, the more joy you get. Nelson Mandela wrote something like - how dare we not allow the greatness inside each of us to emerge. You can't buy your way to it via gizmoos. Snake oil has been a major seller in our culture since day one and it will always be. there is no way to get passion/talent/drive in a nice little microphone, amp, tab, or technique. It works outside of our calculating mind. It may often starve, impoverish, and ignore all basic mind driven fears. So, like I said, enjoy your sounds out of that little tin sandwich. Be happy with the joys it brings you. This is the passion/talent/drive talking to you. Focus on that and it will lead you to everything you need to be satified with the harp. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
Nope. Y'all are wrong. Talent is real. It may be useful to pretend otherwise, but it is just pretending.
That's not to say that people are right about what they say about being gifted or talented. Lots of misconceptions out there about talent.
Talent is real, but other things are just SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT, like actually putting forth honest effort.
While it is true that most people considered 'talented' simply put in alot of time, that does not mean talent is a myth. It just means that natural talents are not distinguishable from learned talents.
The only way to determine natural talent is to ask "How long you been at this?" and even then it only works if the person has not been at it very long. This is also flawed.
Natural talent is how quick you learn, not how good you are.
None of these articles I linked really state there is no such thing as talent. They are simply showing that talent is irrelevant to peak performance. NO person was able to play world class without putting in their requisite amount of time of 10,000 hours or so. Even how quickly someone learns is down to correct instruction and hard work.
Right on Walter, loved your post. The people that are not willing to sacrifice what you have it doesn't mean you were more talented, simply more passionate. Same for me, I simply wasn't passionate enough to go to music school and spend my life trying to get into an orchestra. It seemed like a waste of time to me, where others, that was their ultimate dream.
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2010 7:43 AM
You hear the term "a wasted talent" from time to time. To me, this is a matter of opinion...outside opinion.
Certainly it would be hard to know if the talent in question was developed through 10,000 hours of practice to reach it's current level or came more naturally.
My son hit the first plastic baseball he ever saw thrown toward him at the age of 3. Over the next several years he became an amazing contact hitter and a real asset to his various ball teams throughout school. I know plenty of other kids from coaching little league that simply could not connect after much more practice and many more years. Same coach...me. Different motivators at home though. Variables that are difficult to assess.
Some say he is a wasted talent because he chose not to pursue baseball. He also picked up a guitar and copied pentatonic scales correctly the first time he ever tried it. He hates math and says he "can't do it." Now he is in the Air Force and does it just fine because it is part of his job. He is a good example of varying degrees of talent applied to varying degrees. I believe he has natural musical ability that he grooms do this day on guitar and vocals. He's a fine musician, on those two instruments. So far, he says the harmonica is "too hard" and makes him get out of breath..lol. This is a guy who leads his morning PT on a 4 mile run every day...lol.
I enjoy this discussion. I think there's a mix of both natural and developed talent. Some people strive for the things they love, others put in minimal effort in the same things to do them at the same level. Some from both camps lose interest because it's either too hard or too easy. The ones who persevere end up being blessed by the activity whichever camp they belong to.
congaron: I too love these discussions. Your story made me think- did making contact on the first pitch ignite a drive to continue it because it felt so good, or did an inner perordained talent exist first and this sparked it? For others that hit it on the first pitch could it not have felt so good to keep at it? Whatever way, we are living life if we follow our passions! Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
"others put in minimal effort in the same things to do them at the same level."
This might be true initially, but over the course from beginning to world class level, it does not matter. A large majority of "geniuses" did not show ANY talent or precocity. Bobby Fischer was beaten many times before he all of a sudden "got good" but he still had to put in the 10,000 hours. Even Itzhak perlman, jacqueline du pre, magnus carlsen, and especially charlie parker. They all simply had BETTER instruction and HAD to put in the amount of time to become world class. NOT ONE genius or world class person became that way by putting in less work or minimal effort. Just as walter was posting, if you wanted to be world class and didn't the honest truth is you weren't willing to sacrifice enough to do what it is you wanted to do. I think this is incredibly freeing and encouraging.
Walter: I have often wondered exactly that. He learned to ride a bike that same year, without the training wheels. Of course i wanted him riding with me and that is what happened when he got older. Same with cross country skiing. I think the success of the first try and the reward of praise plays heavily into it. Probably a self-confidence thing as well.
Michael: I see what you mean about the level achieved after 10,000 hours. I wonder how the intermediate levels correlate at different times in the study? Did they go into this at all?
I know a guy who never played his trumpet except at the weekly lesson at school and kept pace with another guy who was taking private lessons outside school. The guy with the private lessons stuck with it, the other guy didn't. For a couple of years though, they played about the same and challenged each other back and forth to swap into and out of the seat next to me. Of course, i sat in the first chair first trumpet and goofed off, too. I dropped the instrument for many years, picking it back up later.
I think for achieving world class performance the study tells a cool story and is very motivating. I think it might be helpful to relay this to folks in the middle like the two who seem the same to be at different levels of dedication. I am going to use this information with my students of guitar, vocals, mandolin, bass, percussion and harp. Thanks.
It's cool to have an actual study to let someone know the sky's the limit.
Still, I don't think it can be reasonably argued that time invested is the most important variable. Or else we would routinely get blown away by the eldest musicians. instead, we usually get blown away by the young guy who is doing things a little different.
"Still, I don't think it can be reasonably argued that time invested is the most important variable. Or else we would routinely get blown away by the eldest musicians. instead, we usually get blown away by the young guy who is doing things a little different."
@ Phogi, that is a good point actually about the young guy doing things a little differently. But you have to keep in mind that it's not "experience" or "time" that makes one good but specifically "deliberate practice". I think that the eldest musicians who ARE the best, think of Howard Levy. Nobody can touch his level of skill on diatonic. Because he used his time to "deliberately practice" harp. Improving intonation, transposing piano songs onto his harp, breathing more efficiently. In chess, many of the young people are blowing away the older because they are fresh from 10,000 of deliberately improving, whereas the older players have stopped trying to push themselves and they simply polish off what they already know. Time invested IS the most important variable, but it MUST be invested in teh right way. They talk about how if you are really deliberately practicing you NEVER feel comfortable playing. Most people can't stand that feeling but it's how to become great.
"Do not train a child to learn by force or harshness; but direct them to it by what amuses their minds, so that you may be better able to discover with accuracy the peculiar bent of the genius of each."
Plato
I will add that feeling comfortable and not comfortable while practicing is a perspective driven by the need to learn a thing. The greats of anything see joy in what others see as uncomfortable in the learning curve. When I was studying martial arts I often felt uncomfortable with the learning curve. My instructor took joy in the new horizions he was seeing and the pain it took to get there was part of it. I am this way with my music. Putting the drum stuff together for my 1 man band has been a pain. There is no store bought kits for the way I do it and I am not very skilled at building. I have had to create much of my setup from imagination. The drag of building it is overidden by the joy of the sounds I hear in my heart that I am trying to get and know I will once the drum stuff is right. I just got done watching a documentary on the first transcontinental car trip. The guy who did it hit one major obsticle after another. Yet he kept saying that once he got passed this one, it would be smooth sailing. He said that the whole trip! The cup was half full, still he cursed, but the drive to get accross the country made those problems small potatoes while others with less drive would focus on the pains and quit. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
Phogi, You said "record yourself everyday".... more detail, please. Record everything? If not, record what? Listen back when? Do what with it? ---------- Tin Lizzie
I don't know if recording everything is productive (though many songwriters just leave a tape on whenever they are working, not a horrible idea). I try to record myself for at least 10 minutes each time I play. I listen, and look for the parts that sound really good. Then I hone that part.
If I repeat this process long enough, I get a real good feel for what works with a particular tune or track.
Sometimes I make the goal of my practicing to be to produce a quality recording. Sometimes this takes hours. I record, listen, record, listen. I repeat until I am satisfied, or burnt out.
I decided to do this after I was once recorded by a buddy without knowing it. When I head the recording, I thought, 'man, that sounds like garbage!' Yet while I was playing I was thinking 'man, that was great!' So, My method is the only way I can know if what I'm playing sounds good to me when I'm playing. I figure if I keep it up long enough I'll learn to feel good when I'm playing good, and know it's bad when it's bad.
What do I do with the recording? Usually, I delete it after I listen. I'm using it as a learning tool, primarily.
I meant what do you do when you listen back? What do you listen for, not did you keep the recording.
It's the listening back part I have issues with. When to do it? What to listen for? It seems like it takes a lot of time. And I struggle with constructive criticism on the listening part.
Tin Lizzie- You can listen for all sorts of things. I noticed that the microphone was picking up breathing sounds I didn't want it to. Sometimes it's easier to hear things like warmth vs. brightness, thickness vs. thinness on playback.
I've found so much of the harmonica tone comes to our ears through the bones in our head; we don't always hear what microphone does. If you find a spot you like or don't like you can sometimes figure out why. Listening to your own stuff (or anyone's really) is a skill. The more you do the better you'll get at it, the more things you'll notice.
Great thread! MAL, Waltertore, and others have said many true things here. Joseph Campbell said: Follow your bliss. If you want to be a harp pro and work in bands, then there are certain things you need to learn as part of what it means to be a pro: grooves, basic blues changes (12 bar, various 8 bars, New Orleans, rock, etc.), non-blues tunes that a blues guy should know (Happy Birthday). But basically you need to decide early on that what counts is the joy you take in actually playing and practicing. You also need to realize that you can't play exactly like any other player, and that TRYING to play exactly like other players is merely one (important) phase of your studies. Beyond that phase lies the really important stuff, like finding your own voice, adding something indelible to the music, learning how to work a room and a crowd, learning how to groove with other musicians.
Mr. Satan used to say, "I hate practice! You practice to be like somebody else. You EXCERCISE to be you!"
I'm just about to post a video to YouTube that consists of one of my own practice sessions--I did not intend to upload it; that's why it's valuable--with some pre-commentary. I'll post it here.
Fascinating insight Adam. It's good of you to bare your soul and let us see the road to proficient playing isn't just noodling in front of the computer. There's a lot of hard work to be put in.
One question if I may. Do you ever reach the stage of perfection you are aiming for or do you get so far down the line and think I can't do it any better so that will just have to do? The people out there won't notice.
Thanks for the input Adam. GREAT video! I think it is amazing what people can accomplish with effortful study. I have been thinking about some people belief that talent can compensate for lack of study. This is what I wanted to bring those books and research forth about. If you study in the right way and practice efficiently you CAN and WILL achieve what you want to. But there is another side and that is the "rage to master". The burning passion to work incredibly hard at a task until it is mastered. This is not necessarily talent but a personality predisposition that would influence someone to put in incredible practice time. Emotional intelligence and artistry are things that cannot really be taught I believe. This video is very inspirational I think because here is a 12 year old pianist playing in the most beautiful way, especially in the second half of the video. There is a documentary somewhere on youtube about him. He practices A LOT and has excellent instruction. What is amazing is his emotional maturity and intelligence at such a young age. Maybe that is what real talent is that separates good from great in the end.
I listen to the recording immediately after playing. I'm listening for things that make me go "COOL!" Also, I listen to see if I'm setting up expectations, creating surprises, structure over the length of time I play, the rhythmic relationship between y rhytmand he rhythm section, Tone, tightness, accuracy of any technical licks, phrasing, etc...
Ultimately I ask myself "would I listen to this?" And, since I'm a real snob about what I consider good, this method seems to work.
