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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
High End Octave Advice
High End Octave Advice
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HarmonicaMick
118 posts
Mar 09, 2010
11:02 AM
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Hi All,
Recently, I started working on Dave Barrett's DVD course, and right from disc 1, he gets you working with your tongue. Big deal, you might think. Split octaves down the bottom end present no major difficulties. Well, try this at the top end, which I tabbed to make practising less dreary. It's just a few bars of Beethoven's Ode To Joy:
5&8 5&8 5&9< 6&9 | 6&9 5&9< 5&8 4&8< |
4&7 4&7 4&8< 5&8 | 5&8 4&8< 4&8< |
On paper it looks straightforward enough, but those octaves where you move to cover 5 holes and block out 3 don't seem all that easy. Or is it just me?
Barrett mentions the pucker embourchure, but uses - or advocates? - the tilted embouchure, which, by its nature presents more of the relevant part of the tongue to the harp.
Also, he plays with his thumb very far back on the ridge, which is something I never found comfortable: I could actually feel the pulse in my thumb; very off-putting.
This is about as far back as my thumb tends to go on a Special 20 without it keep sneeking forward:
Ironically, it stays more out of the way on the smaller Marine Band, due, I suppose, to their deeper troth at the back.
I find the technique easier with the thumbs-up grip, but, if I can, I'd like to master it with the standard grip.
I know this all sounds a bit anal, but I would appreciate hearing from anyone who's mastered this technique without their thumb being up on the ridge.
Like most techniques, it's probably just a question of time coupled with patience. Still, any advice would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
EDIT: I should add that I do tilt the harp so as to give the bottom lip a bit of extra room.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Mar 09, 2010 11:49 AM
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jonsparrow
2543 posts
Mar 09, 2010
11:07 AM
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if you can feel your pulse in your thumb your holding it way too hard.
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toddlgreene
1002 posts
Mar 09, 2010
11:08 AM
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Mick, on the DVD, is the significance of the thumb positioning explained, or is that just how he holds it?
If it hurts, don't do it.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on Mar 09, 2010 11:15 AM
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oda
225 posts
Mar 09, 2010
11:13 AM
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By no stretch of the imagination can I claim to by a doctor, however, I think that when you cease to feel that pulse in your thumb, you should be worried.
Why are you trying to hold it exactly as he holds it? just hold it how you feel comfortable and work with that. It's better than playing uncomfortably.
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HarmonicaMick
119 posts
Mar 09, 2010
11:43 AM
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Jon,
No I don't hold it hard at all, but thanks. I'm not exactly a newbie.
Todd,
The significance of the thumb is the degree to which you have to put the harp in your mouth.
oda,
Yes, my grip is comfortable. but still very hard to use while moving over 5 holes with the thumb directly underneath.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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HarpNinja
247 posts
Mar 09, 2010
12:24 PM
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1. Put the harp as far as possible in your mouth. I cover 4-5 holes while lip pursing pretty easily.
2. Put your thumb/hand against your lips. This helps with mic technique.
3. Don't squeeze the harp!
I find my finger/thumb of my left hand to be very far back on the harp...almost on the edge. On a Hohner MB or GM, it would be on the ridge on the back. From your pic, I'd have a hard time covering enough of the harp with my mouth.
In fact, I find that un-modded combs like a Sp 20 or MB uncomfortable to hold as the corner is right at the bottom of my thumg.
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Mike Fugazzi
vocals/harmonica
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HarmonicaMick
120 posts
Mar 09, 2010
12:30 PM
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Thanks, Mike. I've read similar stuff in books, and I think I'm probably just gonna have to get a grip on that thumb, or switch to the thumb-up grip.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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HarpNinja
248 posts
Mar 09, 2010
12:41 PM
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If you mic up you could hold the harp like Adam Gussow would? That whole how to hold the harp thing really threw me for a loop when I started to amp up. It took like a year to get comfortable.
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Mike Fugazzi
vocals/harmonica
MySpace
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HarmonicaMick
121 posts
Mar 09, 2010
2:27 PM
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Yeah, I'm pretty much resolved to hold it that way with a mic; it just makes sense cos it's so VERY comfortable and doesn't interfere with the embouchure.
But, the trouble is with accoustic playing. I've learnt to get brilliant wahs that way, much like John Sebastian's grip, but it really feels uncomfortable on the back of the right - fanning - hand.
I suppose it's all part of the journey.
Thanks again.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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